Malcador Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) If you're interesting in something, and enthusiastic about something.. is it wise to wait a year for a cheap version of it to come out? Is it worthwhile waiting to see what other people think of it? Will their perceptions match yours? Does waiting 6-8-12 months for a game make it better just because you might end up spending $10-30 less? C'mon, going by that rationale I should never have picked up Alpha Protocol, because pretty much the majority of reviewers slammed it and people who gave the most voice complained about it. While to me, a lot of the complaints made weren't really an issue compared to the fun I had with the game, and expect to have more enjoyment when I go back and replay it again in the future. There are a heap of games that have got raved reviews, that people have talked about.. that I've then found to be a total waste of money regardless of whether I picked them up during the initial release or a few years on when they were in the bargain bin. It comes down to this, if you think you're going to have fun with a game, and you're excited by the ideas that are supposed to be in a game.. You're willing to take the risk on your own cognizance. It's not bad, it's not good. It's your perspetive. I'm merely interested in this game, so I've no problem waiting a year if need be. Enthusiasm is another level, that was the reason I pre-ordered Civ V (yeah, big mistake that turned out to be, heh). While you're not going to get a review made by a clone of yourself, you can use the varied criticism to predict how you'll enjoy it by sifting through the praise/complaints (AP had good reviews for story and the consequences, for example). LPs are even better for this purpose, at least for shooters and adventure games in my experience. So, it is worth your time not making an emotional or impulse buy and waiting for feedback, rather than gamble $60. It's not even that long a wait, if you're some fanboy of the game and HAVE to have it, feedback for well pimped games is available pretty quickly, maybe give it a week or two. Not going to kill you. So far I've done that with NV and DOW2 Ret, both I was tempted to pre-order but decided to just wait for reviews here and elsewhere (the latter was elsewhere because you all suck ). Edited March 24, 2011 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Wrath of Dagon Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 I'm concerned they're promising too much. Branching paths with modern presentation is expensive to implement, plus the team has 0 track record. Will wait for reviews and forum feedback before I get it. "Moral indignation is a standard strategy for endowing the idiot with dignity." Marshall McLuhan
entrerix Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 i'm going to wait for reviews just enough to know the game isnt a disaster, otherwise, i want to see what they've done, even if they only managed a "good" game and not a great one. Killing is kind of like playin' a basketball game. I am there. and the other player is there. and it's just the two of us. and I put the other player's body in my van. and I am the winner. - Nice Pete.
Meshugger Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 I am trying to reach you but you aren't anwering. Are we speaking the same language? Answering what? My point has been the last 3 pages that the player should decide himself on what should be pointless in DXHR, while your answer is that X,Y and Z are pointless or stupid in itself and no loss is to the player. That is a moot point since you cannot know what each and every potential player value each interactive object in the game. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy
Tale Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) I would agree that in theory anything might potentially be valuable to someone. I would counter by pointing out that it's not a strong argument. Development to the end of making every trivial object interactive has consequences that may not be cost effective. Detailing every single item in the world such that it can be picked up, manipulated, and respond to the physics system just because a small percentage of players may want to build a book fort isn't necessarily a good tradeoff when it results in extra work and restrictions on other details. Not that it can't be done. Some have done it. Oblivion did it. Edited March 24, 2011 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Slowtrain Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 I would agree that in theory anything might potentially be valuable to someone. I would counter by pointing out that it's not a strong argument. Development to the end of making every trivial object interactive has consequences that may not be cost effective. Detailing every single item in the world such that it can be picked up, manipulated, and respond to the physics system just because a small percentage of players may want to build a book fort isn't necessarily a good tradeoff when it means that you have to lower polygon and texture budgets on all other models or alternatively simply make every single bookshelf empty so you don't have to deal with it. Not that it can't be done. Some have done it. Oblivion did it. I think the more stuff, however trivial, that can be interacted with in a gameworld the better. However, resources are always a factor and there may indeed be better ways to spend them in the pursuit of a more open and interactive world. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Tale Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) I think it's better if it can be done without consequences and resources. But I won't make the claim it can. I'd like to have a gun fight in a library with books exploding. And I'd like to see it happen without the physics system have a seizure. But I'm going to be somewhat pessimistic about how reasonable the implementing of that idea might be. I'd like to geomod my way in and out of locations as well. Edited March 24, 2011 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Tigranes Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Wow, that got sidetracked. :D My point was simple and there is no getting round it: PC ports with 3rd party involvement run a higher risk of screwups and when there is a higher risk it makes every sense to hold off purchase a few days and see, if you were planning on preordering. All that stuff about DA2 comparisons just stinks of argument for argument's sake. Still excited for DX3 and looks like a fun game, but whereas I might have preordered before, I'll wait a couple of days or so now. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress)
Tale Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) The same argument holds against pre-ordering entirely, an unproven studio already has a "higher" chance of screwups. Either you understand the motive to pre-order or you don't. It doesn't make people who don't share that with you into morons. Edited March 24, 2011 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Slowtrain Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Still excited for DX3 and looks like a fun game, but whereas I might have preordered before, I'll wait a couple of days or so now. Regadless of whether the PC development is outsourced or not, I'm still waiting until I hear what people on this forum think. Unless one is flush with excess money, waiting a few weeks on a major release until the initial dust settles, is always worth it. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Raithe Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Still excited for DX3 and looks like a fun game, but whereas I might have preordered before, I'll wait a couple of days or so now. Regadless of whether the PC development is outsourced or not, I'm still waiting until I hear what people on this forum think. Unless one is flush with excess money, waiting a few weeks on a major release until the initial dust settles, is always worth it. I don't know. I've seen a lot of pre-orders that have "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Slowtrain Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 I used to buy games at release or pretty close to it, but I got tired of so many of them being buggy messes. I'd rather just wait a bit and see if the game gets fixed up or not (or even needs fixing). In the end, I can always buy it down the road for 2/3 or even more off the initial release price, so I figure I've got nothing to lose by waiting. If I had a lot of money, probably wouldn't be a big deal since I wouldn't care so much. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that.
Gfted1 Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Hmm, I dont recall ever seeing a preorder cost less. Throw in a trinket/merchant/in-game object? Sure. Cheaper? Never. "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
Raithe Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Hmm, Ive never once seen a preorder cost less. Throw in a trinket/merchant/in-game object? Sure. Cheaper? Never. Man, you miss out then. I'm always seeing Amazon.co.uk do that. Take Deus Ex , I pre-ordered the Augmented Edition so it's costing me just Edited March 24, 2011 by Raithe "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Malcador Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Damn those explosions. Looks like this will be mediocre at worst. Edited March 24, 2011 by Malcador Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra
Gfted1 Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Man, you miss out then. I'm always seeing Amazon.co.uk do that. Take Deus Ex , I pre-ordered the Augmented Edition so it's costing me just "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa"
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Honestly this still looks really goddamn fun, I don't see how you could be disappointed in that trailer. "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"
Tale Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Man, you miss out then. I'm always seeing Amazon.co.uk do that. Take Deus Ex , I pre-ordered the Augmented Edition so it's costing me just "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater."
Raithe Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Sometimes Amazon also gives credit instead. Which works just the same for me. Last time I got it with them was WoW: Cataclysm with $10. $15 when I got Assassin's Creed: Brotherhood. Yeah, looking at it they have the pc version of AC: Brotherhood going for just "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Azdeus Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Damn, that video and interview made me confused - I don't know what to think now. The lightning filter made my eyes go <.> Still going to say that I'm excited about it for now though. Not going to buy it on release, I'll have to wait for reviews and impressions for this one aswell. Civilization, in fact, grows more and more maudlin and hysterical; especially under democracy it tends to degenerate into a mere combat of crazes; the whole aim of practical politics is to keep the populace alarmed (and hence clamorous to be led to safety) by menacing it with an endless series of hobgoblins, most of them imaginary. - H.L. Mencken
Raithe Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Hm, so that recent interview they made mention that some of the inspiration for the hacking minigame came from the Shadowrun pen n paper... "Cuius testiculos habeas, habeas cardia et cerebellum."
Hassat Hunter Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Detailing every single item in the world such that it can be picked up, manipulated, and respond to the physics system just because a small percentage of players may want to build a book fort isn't necessarily a good tradeoff when it results in extra work and restrictions on other details. Doesn't each item have to respond individual to the physics system already in modern games? I thought that was kind of a requirement. So that is no longer required as "additional work" to make everything interactable. And yeah, I am one of these people who love interactivity. ^ I agree that that is such a stupid idiotic pathetic garbage hateful retarded scumbag evil satanic nazi like term ever created. At least top 5. TSLRCM Official Forum || TSLRCM Moddb || My other KOTOR2 mods || TSLRCM (English version) on Steam || [M4-78EP on Steam Formerly known as BattleWookiee/BattleCookiee
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 (edited) Detailing every single item in the world such that it can be picked up, manipulated, and respond to the physics system just because a small percentage of players may want to build a book fort isn't necessarily a good tradeoff when it results in extra work and restrictions on other details. Doesn't each item have to respond individual to the physics system already in modern games? I thought that was kind of a requirement. Hell no, games are still very primitive with this. Plenty of things are "nailed down" and don't interact in any way with physics except as an obstacle. Even then it's usually not the objet itself but a hitbox placed there. Edited March 24, 2011 by WILL THE ALMIGHTY "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!"
GreasyDogMeat Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 Would it be sacrilege to wish for a remake of DX 1 with the gameplay & graphics of DX: Human Revolution?
WDeranged Posted March 24, 2011 Posted March 24, 2011 The new trailer looks ok to me, I mentioned ages ago that the game looks a bit outdated, it's not a terrible thing, Deus Ex looked pretty ****ty compared to other games at the time, they can hopefully use the resources better by giving you more options in the plot and level design. I do have my fingers crossed for this one.
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