mr insomniac Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 KoTOR was fun, no denying it, and I even played it twice. Also, not to take anything away from KoTOR II, which was a better game, I wish it had been a more direct sequel. I also wish KoTOR III had been made to wrap everything up in a nice trilogy. That said, I lost count of how many times I played ME. It was also the first game since PS:T that, while I was playing, I didn't want to stop until I saw what happened next. Someone here posted awhile back that they played ME through in one marathon session. I wasn't that bad, but it was close. To me that makes ME more fun than KoTOR. I took this job because I thought you were just a legend. Just a story. A story to scare little kids. But you're the real deal. The demon who dares to challenge God. So what the hell do you want? Don't seem to me like you're out to make this stinkin' world a better place. Why you gotta kill all my men? Why you gotta kill me? Nothing personal. It's just revenge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WILL THE ALMIGHTY Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 Why does Volourn still manage to drag us into these dumb arguments? "Alright, I've been thinking. When life gives you lemons, don't make lemonade - make life take the lemons back! Get mad! I don't want your damn lemons, what am I supposed to do with these? Demand to see life's manager. Make life rue the day it thought it could give Cave Johnson lemons. Do you know who I am? I'm the man who's gonna burn your house down! With the lemons. I'm going to to get my engineers to invent a combustible lemon that burns your house down!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 because some of us enjoy it? anyway, it did have the same story, ME. a hero jedi/spectre goes far-far away pursuing his duty only to find an ancient evil, which transforms him, he then goes rogue. a newbie spectre/jedi is tasked with eliminating the new enemy. then he destroys some derelict ship and saves the day, woohoo. how is it not the same? the only major difference was the plot twist in KOTOR with the rogue jedi and the newbie jedi being the same person. that only proves KOTOR's plot had a lot more to offer. ME is more straight-forward and simplistic. in terms of gameplay they don't differ much either. KOTOR is focused on lightsaber battles, obviously making it a FPS would just over-complicate things. now, ME2 utilized a slightly different formula, it definately was an improvement design-wise. the plot, however, leaves a lot to be desired Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GhostofAnakin Posted September 4, 2010 Share Posted September 4, 2010 ME2's main plot areas reminded me of playing Halo, the parts with the Flood, and not in a good way. It's just a good thing the NPC sidequests were good. "Console exclusive is such a harsh word." - Darque"Console exclusive is two words Darque." - Nartwak (in response to Darque's observation) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Meshugger Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 Action RPG, and it works very well. It has more in common with BG or BL than it does with shooters. Volourn is both right and wrong. The structure of the game has nothing to do with shooters. The core gameplay is practically a shooter with RPG elements though. Bleh. I do not think that i will even bother with the demo. "Some men see things as they are and say why?""I dream things that never were and say why not?"- George Bernard Shaw"Hope in reality is the worst of all evils because it prolongs the torments of man."- Friedrich Nietzsche "The amount of energy necessary to refute bull**** is an order of magnitude bigger than to produce it." - Some guy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
The Transcendent One Posted September 5, 2010 Author Share Posted September 5, 2010 ME series = awesome 'flaws and all'. It certainly beats the KOTOR series which no doubt many of which who bash ME somehow think is better. KOTOR series is a joke. ME series is one of the best RPGs ever. KOTOR series is not. What the hell ? Mass effect is great,but it it isnt the best rpg ever,best rpg sure is kotor. KOTOR is in another league of Excellency. Are you realy serious of what you are saying? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Maria Caliban Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 Why does Volourn still manage to drag us into these dumb arguments? No idea. I managed to deflect with kittens. Other people obviously don't like kittens. "When is this out. I can't wait to play it so I can talk at length about how bad it is." - Gorgon. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Purkake Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 ME series = awesome 'flaws and all'. It certainly beats the KOTOR series which no doubt many of which who bash ME somehow think is better. KOTOR series is a joke. ME series is one of the best RPGs ever. KOTOR series is not. What the hell ? Mass effect is great,but it it isnt the best rpg ever,best rpg sure is kotor. KOTOR is in another league of Excellency. Are you realy serious of what you are saying? Obviously you're new here. Maybe we should have an introductory post or a Volo warning sign? Why does Volourn still manage to drag us into these dumb arguments? No idea. I managed to deflect with kittens. Other people obviously don't like kittens. The problem with kittens is that they grow up to be cats. Cats are kind of douchebags. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Volourn Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 (edited) "anyway, it did have the same story, ME. a hero jedi/spectre goes far-far away pursuing his duty only to find an ancient evil, which transforms him, he then goes rogue. a newbie spectre/jedi is tasked with eliminating the new enemy. then he destroys some derelict ship and saves the day, woohoo. how is it not the same?" Because, that isn't KOTOR's story. KOTOR isn't about combating an ancient evil. "What the hell ? Mass effect is great,but it it isnt the best rpg ever,best rpg sure is kotor. KOTOR is in another league of Excellency. Are you realy serious of what you are saying?" You wanna know how serious I am? KOTOR isn't even a top 25 RPG. KOTOR is a passable, fun, slightly above average RPG. ME is one of the best RPGs ever (top 10) while KOTOR is really overrated. "No idea. I managed to deflect with kittens. Other people obviously don't like kittens." Well.. I did thinka botu linking to that cat dumpster story for the lols, but I moved on but you are tempting me with all your kitten talk... Edited September 5, 2010 by Volourn DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blodhemn Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 wtf...i get bored of having the same thought twice, how the hell can someone argue the same BS in every GD ME thread ever created? Jesus get a GD hobby.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowtrain Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 wtf...i get bored of having the same thought twice, how the hell can someone argue the same BS in every GD ME thread ever created? Jesus get a GD hobby.. 90% of the internet is repetiton. That's just the way it was built. Notice how I can belittle your beliefs without calling you names. It's a useful skill to have particularly where you aren't allowed to call people names. It's a mistake to get too drawn in/worked up. I mean it's not life or death, it's just two guys posting their thoughts on a message board. If it were personal or face to face all the usual restraints would be in place, and we would never have reached this place in the first place. Try to remember that. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nepenthe Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 because some of us enjoy it? anyway, it did have the same story, ME. a hero jedi/spectre goes far-far away pursuing his duty only to find an ancient evil, which transforms him, he then goes rogue. a newbie spectre/jedi is tasked with eliminating the new enemy. then he destroys some derelict ship and saves the day, woohoo. how is it not the same? the only major difference was the plot twist in KOTOR with the rogue jedi and the newbie jedi being the same person. that only proves KOTOR's plot had a lot more to offer. ME is more straight-forward and simplistic. in terms of gameplay they don't differ much either. KOTOR is focused on lightsaber battles, obviously making it a FPS would just over-complicate things. now, ME2 utilized a slightly different formula, it definately was an improvement design-wise. the plot, however, leaves a lot to be desired I'm actually with Vol here (for the second time today, I think I need to go take a nap down in the shade), even by reducing the story elements to a point of absurdity, you're still not describing the games accurately. You could go with 'they're both games about guys (or girls) who fight evil in space. And have a ship.' But they you've reduced it to the point where you are describing everyting from Doom to Dead Space as well. You're a cheery wee bugger, Nep. Have I ever said that? Reapercussions Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 how is it not the same? the only major difference was the plot twist in KOTOR with the rogue jedi and the newbie jedi being the same person. that only proves KOTOR's plot had a lot more to offer. When did we come to start thinking of twists as substance? Was it in 1999? I feel I should blame Shymalan. "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
sorophx Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 I like clever plot twists in fiction. I appreciate, when the author at least tries to save me from boredom. ME's writers failed at it completely. Walsingham said: I was struggling to understand ths until I noticed you are from Finland. And having been educated solely by mkreku in this respect I am convinced that Finland essentially IS the wh40k universe. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted September 5, 2010 Share Posted September 5, 2010 (edited) I'd dispute whether that one was "clever." But that's less debate and more me being obnoxiously argumentative. I shouldn't particularly defend Mass Effect, but KOTOR wasn't exactly better. Twists can be useful for changing the direction of a narrative, but if they're what you look at when you compliment the work, then all it's working with are cheap thrills. Even Mass Effect had it's twists. The ship is the bad guy. The guy you thought was the bad guy is just mind controlled. Edited September 5, 2010 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 I'd dispute whether that one was "clever." But that's less debate and more me being obnoxiously argumentative. I shouldn't particularly defend Mass Effect, but KOTOR wasn't exactly better. Twists can be useful for changing the direction of a narrative, but if they're what you look at when you compliment the work, then all it's working with are cheap thrills. Even Mass Effect had it's twists. The ship is the bad guy. The guy you thought was the bad guy is just mind controlled. Just comparing the plot twists, Kotor wins hands down. The revelation was shocking and it changes your perspective on the bad guy; ME and ME2 is a long winded revelation of finding what happened to the proteans with some quasi-religious undertones. I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bos_hybrid Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 *Sigh* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 So... am I the only one that saw the KOTOR twist coming about 5 hours into the game? Because that sort of ruined it a lot, I suppose I don't have the best perspective on it. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serrano Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 (edited) Shamefully it did catch me by surprise . I knew something was coming I just didn't expect that. Edited September 6, 2010 by Serrano Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tale Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 (edited) So... am I the only one that saw the KOTOR twist coming about 5 hours into the game? Because that sort of ruined it a lot, I suppose I don't have the best perspective on it. No, you're not. Conservation of detail, people. Oh, there's a really important guy they can't stop talking about. He's dead, you say? He wore a mask, you say? Probably nothing. Just comparing the plot twists, Kotor wins hands down. The revelation was shocking and it changes your perspective on the bad guy; ME and ME2 is a long winded revelation of finding what happened to the proteans with some quasi-religious undertones. Did it really change anything, though? The bad guy in KOTOR was still the bad guy after the revelation. The bad guy in Mass Effect turns out to be something you thought was a danged prop. But it's worthless to do this comparison, really. Twists are cheap. Mass Effect wasn't a thrilling story. Neither was KOTOR. And that's all my point is. If the only thing you have to go to compliment a work is a single twist, then it's not an especially good story. Edited September 6, 2010 by Tale "Show me a man who "plays fair" and I'll show you a very talented cheater." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Deadly_Nightshade Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 So... am I the only one that saw the KOTOR twist coming about 5 hours into the game? Nope. "Geez. It's like we lost some sort of bet and ended up saddled with a bunch of terrible new posters on this forum." -Hurlshot Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 So... am I the only one that saw the KOTOR twist coming about 5 hours into the game? Nope. Same here... saw it from parsecs away. I was cringing and whinging and hoping that it was just bad omens, but oh no, I was forced to be a jedi It was a fun enough game, but I never forgave it for force converting my Han Solo like rogue into a stupid jedi. That was a mental scar that never really healed “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tigranes Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Yeah, thought so. It was the same deal with Jade Empire, really, and it's good to see they got over that particular 'fix' after that. I don't think ME really counts... It would have been very really interesting if the execution was better, though, I liked the fact that they did try to upgrade their narratives. Let's Play: Icewind Dale Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Icewind Dale II Ironman (Complete) Let's Play: Divinity II (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG1 (Complete) Let's Play: Baldur's Gate Trilogy Ironman - BG2 (In Progress) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Orogun01 Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 Did it really change anything, though? The bad guy in KOTOR was still the bad guy after the revelation. The bad guy in Mass Effect turns out to be something you thought was a danged prop. But it's worthless to do this comparison, really. Twists are cheap. Mass Effect wasn't a thrilling story. Neither was KOTOR. And that's all my point is. If the only thing you have to go to compliment a work is a single twist, then it's not an especially good story. It changes the perspective, I went from seeing Malak as a sinister sith who tortures people to just being my ex-apprentice If all you got from Kotor was a plot twist then I feel sorry for you, it laid the groundwork for what would had become an epic trilogy. But damn it there is not KOTOR III I'd say the answer to that question is kind of like the answer to "who's the sucker in this poker game?"* *If you can't tell, it's you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Serrano Posted September 6, 2010 Share Posted September 6, 2010 It changes the perspective, I went from seeing Malak as a sinister sith who tortures people to just being my ex-apprentice I wish we could have told him he was fired ala Alan Sugar and seen the video interview afterwards. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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