rjshae Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 2 minutes ago, Malcador said: New scene group called FSBros to be created soon. Ha! It's open season on seizure of Russian assets. Game on. 1 1 "It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 (edited) Meh. Not really worth the argument. Edited March 30, 2022 by Zoraptor Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeYellow Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 LOL. Who's really playing the long game here? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/28/ukraine-kyiv-russia-civilians/ Think there was a discussion (well or whatever passes for it here) on civilian structures being targeted, came to mind. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ComradeYellow Posted March 30, 2022 Share Posted March 30, 2022 That same Washington Post Spoiler "Democracy Dies in Darkness" . Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 7 hours ago, Zoraptor said: Meh. Not really worth the argument. Zora please dont develop that bad habit demonstrated by some of making a post and editing the post with " nah, not worth it ". If you taking the time to make a post have the conviction to finish it. I may not always agree with you but I respect your intelligence and belief in your opinions. We can disagree with each other, thats the nature of debate 5 hours ago, ComradeYellow said: That same Washington Post Reveal hidden contents "Democracy Dies in Darkness" . Nah, Democracy dies when Putin lies and invades a sovereign country 1 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 6 hours ago, Malcador said: https://www.washingtonpost.com/world/2022/03/28/ukraine-kyiv-russia-civilians/ Think there was a discussion (well or whatever passes for it here) on civilian structures being targeted, came to mind. Well their is no honest debate about "if civilian structures have been targeted " they have, its irrefutable I can understand part of the point the article is making but its unlikely that hospitals and schools are being used in the Ukrainian defense Also this is exactly what Hamas does when they decide to launch futile rocket attacks on Israel, they use civilian buildings and then complain when the Israelis destroy the civilian buildings. But they do it exactly knowing their will be consequence because they can say " look, Israel is attacking civilian buildings " yet Israel wouldnt be targeting those buildings if rockets werent being launched from them But despite this the situations are different, Ukraine is a war and an unprovoked invasion. And the intentional or lack of concern with Russia's targets is both craven and contemptuous 1 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xzar_monty Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Here's another example of just how vile Russia is: the airplanes that recently breached Swedish airspace were armed with nuclear weapons. Plenty of sources for this. Now, my knowledge of Sweden's recent policy is not particularly good, but surely nothing warrants this. This is sheer madness, absolutely. Russia obviously wants land from Sweden (Gotland especially), but still, still... 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 17 minutes ago, xzar_monty said: Here's another example of just how vile Russia is: the airplanes that recently breached Swedish airspace were armed with nuclear weapons. Plenty of sources for this. Now, my knowledge of Sweden's recent policy is not particularly good, but surely nothing warrants this. This is sheer madness, absolutely. Russia obviously wants land from Sweden (Gotland especially), but still, still... Was that confirmed? Article I saw earlier said Swedish military hadn't yet. - https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/uppgifter-ryska-planen-var-karnvapenbestyckade Granted, had to rely on translation site. Honestly surprised an Su-24 would be kitted out with a nuclear weapon. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, BruceVC said: Nah, Democracy dies when Putin lies and invades a sovereign country Nah, that's the sound of peace dying. Democracy dies when you don't hold your own government to account for it's actions and question it's moves and motives. Despite rampant corruption and lack of transparency, Ukraine is still mostly democratic. Even the most democratic of countries tends to have special laws replacing peacetime laws when in a state of war. 1 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Russian are reportedly using Soviet era strategy against civilian women https://www.itv.com/news/2022-03-29/itv-news-hears-allegations-of-russian-troops-filming-rape-of-15-year-old-girl https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/27/russian-soldiers-raping-and-sexually-assaulting-women-says-ukraine-mp 1 hour ago, Malcador said: Was that confirmed? Article I saw earlier said Swedish military hadn't yet. - https://www.svt.se/nyheter/inrikes/uppgifter-ryska-planen-var-karnvapenbestyckade Granted, had to rely on translation site. Honestly surprised an Su-24 would be kitted out with a nuclear weapon. It is designed to carry nuclear weapons during war time https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.php?aircraft_id=194 Quote Perhaps more important to students of the Cold War was the Su-24s clearance to field tactical nuclear-tipped bombs if required. Droptanks can take up the inner underwing weapon stations. Self-defense was handled by a up to four of AA-8 "Aphid" or (later) AA-11 "Archer" air-to-air missiles. 2 1 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
xzar_monty Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Elerond said: Russian are reportedly using Soviet era strategy against civilian women While I have zero sympathy for the Russian side in this war and believe in nothing it says, it is also true that this particular cruelty has been a part of nearly every war, whenever it's been possible. This strategy is very, very old. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 2 hours ago, Elerond said: Russian are reportedly using Soviet era strategy against civilian women https://www.itv.com/news/2022-03-29/itv-news-hears-allegations-of-russian-troops-filming-rape-of-15-year-old-girl https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/mar/27/russian-soldiers-raping-and-sexually-assaulting-women-says-ukraine-mp It is designed to carry nuclear weapons during war time https://www.militaryfactory.com/aircraft/detail.php?aircraft_id=194 Just when I think the Russian military strategy and approach cant get any lower I read these types of links and I realize...." it can get worse than I thought " 1 "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lexx Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 At this point you can't believe anything that is being said by russia. Even the current peace talks are just a farce to win more time, so they can assemble yet another batch of expendable soldiers. 2 1 "only when you no-life you can exist forever, because what does not live cannot die." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Agiel Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) On 3/29/2022 at 10:56 AM, pmp10 said: No country is that generous, not even to allies. Let alone a poor European backwater country that is distracting US from pivoting to Asia. While I'm heartened beyond belief that Ukrainians have done sterling work in humbling a certain fascistic Patek Philippe wearer in the Kremlin and made all the pessimists and naysayers eat crow a thousand times over, these feelings have been overridden by plenty of other reasons to be downcast, chief of which is the fact that I'm hardly optimistic that the voting public of western democracies' enthusiasm for supplying the much needed arms and supplies to the Ukrainian defenders will carry over into the much harder and more expensive task of rebuilding the homes and livelihoods of Ukrainians once the shooting stops. I've held that as soon as he started asking for it that if Zelenskyy is even half as smart as he appears to be then he knows perfectly well that a NATO no-fly zone is a non-starter, but the implicit message of the ask is "Okay, so instead of that what else is the west going to help Ukraine out in terms of arms and material? And more importantly what kind of reconstruction aid and security guarantees can Ukraine look forward to once the war is over?" It's fantastic to read stories of Britons, Germans, Poles, Romanians, and even Moldovans going out of their way to help out Ukrainian refugees, but I dearly hope this generosity carries over into allowing Ukraine into the EU (I'm sure there will be loads of German, Dutch, and French farmers who won't appreciate a sudden flood of cheap agricultural goods in the common market), providing Marshall Plan-levels of financial aid, and rebuilding their economy to pre-war levels. I'd go further and say that to do less would be the greatest geopolitical betrayal this side of the Yalta agreement. Ukraine isn't post-Soviet invasion Afghanistan by a long shot, nor do I think that Mr Hilter and his dicky old chums Heimlich Bimmler and Ron Ribbentrop will arise in Kyiv, but the character of the Russian Armed Forces' attacks on Ukrainian infrastructure is that of making sure that rebuilding the country will be as expensive and difficult as possible, perhaps beyond what the west will be willing to pony up for (reminder that the last American administration argued convincingly to voters that billions in foreign aid would be better spent domestically). And if resentment that their tax dollars are spent in Ukraine festers then the Kremlin might well use the opening to rebuild their foreign influence operations in the west. Edited March 31, 2022 by Agiel Quote “Political philosophers have often pointed out that in wartime, the citizen, the male citizen at least, loses one of his most basic rights, his right to life; and this has been true ever since the French Revolution and the invention of conscription, now an almost universally accepted principle. But these same philosophers have rarely noted that the citizen in question simultaneously loses another right, one just as basic and perhaps even more vital for his conception of himself as a civilized human being: the right not to kill.” -Jonathan Littell <<Les Bienveillantes>> Quote "The chancellor, the late chancellor, was only partly correct. He was obsolete. But so is the State, the entity he worshipped. Any state, entity, or ideology becomes obsolete when it stockpiles the wrong weapons: when it captures territories, but not minds; when it enslaves millions, but convinces nobody. When it is naked, yet puts on armor and calls it faith, while in the Eyes of God it has no faith at all. Any state, any entity, any ideology that fails to recognize the worth, the dignity, the rights of Man...that state is obsolete." -Rod Serling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Maybe some Russian generals suddenly consider front line duty around Kiev a much safer prospect, than hanging around in Moscow... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60936117 Pentagon spokesman John Kirby called the assessments "discomforting" because an uninformed Putin could result in a "less than faithful" effort at ending the conflict through peace negotiations. "The other thing is, you don't know how a leader like that is going to react to getting bad news," he said. Putin didn't even know that Russia had sent conscripts to the front... the generals and advisors all being too scared to bring any bad news. According to US intelligence services, Putin is only now waking up to the reality of the situation by checking other news sources. 1 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 40 minutes ago, Lexx said: At this point you can't believe anything that is being said by russia. Even the current peace talks are just a farce to win more time, so they can assemble yet another batch of expendable soldiers. I made the mistake a few days ago of saying " Russia wants peace and will be reducing its military engagement " ...I actually did believe what Russia was saying @Chilloutman you were right, I was silly to believe that "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 38 minutes ago, Gorth said: Maybe some Russian generals suddenly consider front line duty around Kiev a much safer prospect, than hanging around in Moscow... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60936117 Pentagon spokesman John Kirby called the assessments "discomforting" because an uninformed Putin could result in a "less than faithful" effort at ending the conflict through peace negotiations. "The other thing is, you don't know how a leader like that is going to react to getting bad news," he said. Putin didn't even know that Russia had sent conscripts to the front... the generals and advisors all being too scared to bring any bad news. According to US intelligence services, Putin is only now waking up to the reality of the situation by checking other news sources. This has been raised on several news channels, I find it hard to believe that an autocrat and ex-KGB like Putin would be so out of touch with the war effort Its possible but I am not convinced ? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bugarup Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 1 hour ago, Gorth said: Maybe some Russian generals suddenly consider front line duty around Kiev a much safer prospect, than hanging around in Moscow... https://www.bbc.com/news/world-europe-60936117 Pentagon spokesman John Kirby called the assessments "discomforting" because an uninformed Putin could result in a "less than faithful" effort at ending the conflict through peace negotiations. "The other thing is, you don't know how a leader like that is going to react to getting bad news," he said. Putin didn't even know that Russia had sent conscripts to the front... the generals and advisors all being too scared to bring any bad news. According to US intelligence services, Putin is only now waking up to the reality of the situation by checking other news sources. Could be that, could be "Tzar is good, tzar just did not know what his boyarins were doing" spin. Kind of hard to believe that human shaped septic tank doesn't know how to google, but then again, it's russia we're talking about. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 US intelligence services have been wrong before. Wouldn't be the first or the last time they missed the mark. It's not always an exact science. “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Eh, they could simply be, well, lying or functionally lying (ie releasing low confidence intelligence as if it was high). We've got plenty of rumours and statements that were obviously designed to foment distrust among the Russian leadership. Though they usually go the 'unnamed intelligence/ defence official' line for that. I mean, Shoigu has 'reliably' been fired, arrested as he was about to launch a coup, been fired and arrested (again) and had a heart attack and died/ been incapacitated all in the last month. That sort of statement is also, of course, meant to draw comparisons to Hitler and Stalin. (Now, if they said that Putin ordered Kiev to be a major immediate target of the invasion I'd believe that without equivocation, since that reeked of a political rather than military decision) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkpriest Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 Interesting pov on RUB rally ---- Eight Reasons For Ruble Rebound 1) Russia escaped Visa and Mastercard ( Mir cards based on NSPK. Those cards do not use the US payment system. One irony is that instead of Visa and Mastercard getting the fees, Russia's central bank collected 8.2 billion rubles in net profit, or about $94 million at current exchange rate) 2) Russia still trades oil and gas with Europe 3) Russia halted currency trades 4) Russia enacted stock market restrictions 5) Of Russian exporters, Russia demanded 80% of euros and dollars be traded for rubles. 6) Russia threatens to stop exporting key commodities including aluminum, natural gas, fertilizer, rare earth minerals, etc., driving up prices and the need to stockpile. 7) Sanctions cannot take away Russia's natural resources. The Fed can print dollars, it cannot print commodities. Likewise, the ECB can print euros, it cannot print commodities Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gfted1 Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 8 hours ago, BruceVC said: ...making a post and editing the post... Im curious now, cant you guys see the edited posts by clicking the "see edit history" link, or is that just for mods and above? 1 "I'm your biggest fan, Ill follow you until you love me, Papa" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 (edited) 3 hours ago, xzar_monty said: While I have zero sympathy for the Russian side in this war and believe in nothing it says, it is also true that this particular cruelty has been a part of nearly every war, whenever it's been possible. This strategy is very, very old. You should read how it was quite different level on Soviet army Edited March 31, 2022 by Elerond Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted March 31, 2022 Share Posted March 31, 2022 17 minutes ago, Gfted1 said: Im curious now, cant you guys see the edited posts by clicking the "see edit history" link, or is that just for mods and above? I have never seen that before, I think thats for mods? "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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