The All Things Political Topic - Those who do not move, do not notice their chains

[rjshae]

18 hours ago, Malcador said:

Defusing this current situation, which is a positive. Even though it's one for a non-NATO member but when do powers care about whose business they're butting into, heh.  Not as if Ukraine is really going to add much to NATO security other than a headache.

A diplomatic alternative would be for NATO to guarantee the Ukraine's neutrality, with a violation leading to potential NATO membership. But guaranteeing neutrality can be tricky. (Cf. Belgium, Poland.)

[ComradeYellow]

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/31/portugal-general-election-pm-antonio-costa-wins-surprise-outright-majority

Yeeeew!

[Pidesco]

10 minutes ago, ComradeYellow said:

https://www.theguardian.com/world/2022/jan/31/portugal-general-election-pm-antonio-costa-wins-surprise-outright-majority

Yeeeew!

Check the last page for some elaboration. 

[ComradeYellow]

35 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

Check the last page for some elaboration. 

Ah crap my bad, usually this section stays on one topic for a week or so and this excited me enough to ADHD it.  Sorry

Edited January 31, 2022 by ComradeYellow

[ComradeYellow]

10 hours ago, Gorth said:

Similar in most European countries I think. Power split and re-split continuously, no party or bloc of parties staying in power indefinitely. The head of state being either a president or a monarch. The alternative would be either single party state (China) or two party state (USA) which I just can't imagine being on any Europeans wishlist.

Good leadership can also go a long way to keep ruling party in power, there's been a woeful lack of good leadership the past few decades hence the seasaw battles you see in U.S. and Europe.

If Costa delivers the goods, his party could rule for many years.  Young people want results not apathy and cynicism. 

Edited January 31, 2022 by ComradeYellow

[Elerond]

There has been lack if good leadership for past 80000 years, which is why we have seen constant change of leadership 

EDIT: Costa has been PM of Portugal for over 6 years now. His win is surprise because people have not liked his policies, but it seem that they like opposition even less.

EDIT2: with that win Costa was able to keep his promise that he doesn't let hard left parties like Communists and Left Block in the government

Edited February 1, 2022 by Elerond

[Raithe]

On a mildly divergent thread for the commentary:

 

 

[majestic]

Every time I see someone invoke the invisible sky fairy with the long beard and a several thousand year old, many times mistranslated book of fables from primitive savages who thought the wind was the breath of God my eyes almost roll back into my head. It's about time we change freedom of religion into being free of religion.

[BruceVC]

1 hour ago, Elerond said:

 

EDIT2: with that win Costa was able to keep his promise that he doesn't let hard left parties like Communists and Left Block in the government

Elerond that is definitely a candidate many people can support, he makes sense 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

30 minutes ago, Raithe said:

On a mildly divergent thread for the commentary:

 

 

Pointing out the logical flaws in the right-wing bible pounders arguments isn't going to work because they fundamentally do not care about being hypocrites. I live in a place these folks control and I can tell yall right now they will throw that sanctity of life stuff out the window the second it comes to empowering the state to execute people or holding business accountable for wrecking someone's life. They're a bunch of ghouls who should never be given the benefit of the doubt.

[Raithe]

 

[Gorth]

2 hours ago, Raithe said:

 

So, you better not insinuate the Earth might not be flat...

[Hurlshort]

In Oklahoma, 10k is probably half thier salary for the year.

Such a strange strategy in the middle of a massive national teacher shortage.

[Gromnir]

12 hours ago, majestic said:

Every time I see someone invoke the invisible sky fairy with the long beard and a several thousand year old, many times mistranslated book of fables from primitive savages who thought the wind was the breath of God my eyes almost roll back into my head. It's about time we change freedom of religion into being free of religion.

kinda thinking the problem is people more than religion or faith. erase any memory o' the sky fairy and you think people would be more kind and compassionate? erase existence o' the bible and sudden the people o' the world become more tolerant and less bigoted?  is not difficult to point to nations which is largely antagonistic and/or ambivalent regarding faith and yet they is capable o' the exact same stoopid as those primitives who continue to believe creation fables and follow the guidance o' long dead (and perhaps neverwere) prophets.

we suggest the fundamental problem is a failure to recognize human nature, and people is the one constant you is never gonna be able to remove from any social, political, religious endeavour.

am willing to be critical o' religion but the problem for us is the recognition religion is inextricable linked to personal and varied notions o' faith.

'course once every couple o' years is enough to remind us nobody is ever gonna have their mind changed 'bout religion based on the crpg board posts from a guy who tortures pronouns. is a dead end issue, so the rest o' you may feel free to crucify or canonize religion w/o us.

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/whoopi-goldberg-apologizes-after-her-holocaust-statements-causes-outrage-132228165736

Im not sure if  everyone is aware of Whoopi Goldbergs offensive and ignorant comments about the Holocaust 

@Malcador Her lack of understanding of history is similar to that SA professor I posted about a few weeks ago where he thought Jews are white and they not their own ethnic group

But this type of  willful ignorance is more common than many people may think and is all about a lack of interest in history except when it comes revisionist and selective   history.  So Goldberg for example thought " the Holocaust was not about race because it was white people killing white people " 

My view on this type of false narrative is still the same, people who engage in these public debates should study the correct history of what they claim they care about and spend less time on CRT and other types of selective history

Oh but she apologized and has only been suspended for 2 weeks so she will keep that particular job 

 

[Chairchucker]

Did anyone say 'more like Whoopsi' yet?

 

Freaking gotter.

[Chairchucker]

14 hours ago, Raithe said:

On a mildly divergent thread for the commentary:

 

 

The gentleman here appears to jump very easily from 'God is capable of anything' to 'anything that happens without direct intervention from humans had direct intervention from God.' That may be the position of some Christians, but certainly not all.

[BruceVC]

20 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

Did anyone say 'more like Whoopsi' yet?

 

Freaking gotter.

You win the globally coveted " BruceVC funniest post of the week "  

[BruceVC]

17 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

The gentleman here appears to jump very easily from 'God is capable of anything' to 'anything that happens without direct intervention from humans had direct intervention from God.' That may be the position of some Christians, but certainly not all.

Yes, their is a tendency to focus on the extreme comments from some  Christians to  suggest this is what all Christians think or its used in a pejorative way to malign Christianity generally

But generalizations are typically never helpful and dont represent what all people think who are labelled in the same way 

 

[Darkpriest]

6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

https://www.nbcnews.com/now/video/whoopi-goldberg-apologizes-after-her-holocaust-statements-causes-outrage-132228165736

Im not sure if  everyone is aware of Whoopi Goldbergs offensive and ignorant comments about the Holocaust 

@Malcador Her lack of understanding of history is similar to that SA professor I posted about a few weeks ago where he thought Jews are white and they not their own ethnic group

But this type of  willful ignorance is more common than many people may think and is all about a lack of interest in history except when it comes revisionist and selective   history.  So Goldberg for example thought " the Holocaust was not about race because it was white people killing white people " 

My view on this type of false narrative is still the same, people who engage in these public debates should study the correct history of what they claim they care about and spend less time on CRT and other types of selective history

Oh but she apologized and has only been suspended for 2 weeks so she will keep that particular job 

 

I'm not surprised. There is so much ignorance on the left regarding racial things (they apparently see only black and white). Germanic (Suebie, Franks, Angles) tribes, have been different than celtic tribes, which have been different than iberian, greek, latin, slav, nordic, caspian, sarmathian etc. Same as there are differences in west africans, equator ones, east africans etc. 

But it would not fit well, if there is more than just black and white and some more generalization. It would break a narrative that all with more pale look are somehow privileged... 

[Chairchucker]

Hmmm maybe a bit of a simplistic view tbh

[BruceVC]

4 minutes ago, Chairchucker said:

Hmmm maybe a bit of a simplistic view tbh

In what way is it simplistic, can you elaborate? Because many people do feel their is a modern  societal narrative that makes generalizations based on race, for example " white, male privlidege  " is an assumption for some and all white people benefit from it ?

[Raithe]

Let's talk for a minute about how we teach the Holocaust, and how we center that narrative.
When I was in Elementary School, Colorado had an "Anne Frank Writing Contest" every year. In 3rd Grade my essay took first place regional, and either 1st or 3rd in the state (would you believe it's been almost 30 years and I cannot quite remember which?). In 5th grade my essay took 3rd place regional.
I only remember one of the prompts, because it stuck in my craw. The prompt for that year for essays was essentially "What would you have been doing during the Holocaust?"

That annoyed me, because it was such a boring answer for me. The answer was hiding, or dying, or hiding and then dying. And so I wrote an essay on that topic, and I think that's the one that won 3rd place because I don't think they were thrilled with a fifth grader getting a little bit uppity with them (but also I was very good).

Later on, I've reflected on the assumptions inherent in that question. It assumes that the person responding will not be Jewish (or Roma, disabled, etc.), and so they will be responding from an exterior viewpoint. It centers the essays in the viewpoint of a bystander to the Holocaust, rather than a victim. And, ultimately, it rewards that viewpoint.
I'm willing to give a lot of latitude here. You have to come up with an essay prompt every year, and this was like the fourth year of the competition--the easy ones were probably the first three years, right? So now you're having to reach, and come up with topics which are engaging for begrudging elementary school students. Having been a teacher of begrudging elementary school students, I am aware of how difficult that is.

But it is also part of a pattern, part of what we talked about with Maus versus the other literary offerings available. The Holocaust is not a uniquely Jewish tragedy, in that we shared it with so many other groups of people; but it is also a fairly specifically Jewish tragedy, as we were the first targets spoken of and the most loudly spoken of. And a plurality and likely even majority of the victims (n.b. we will never know exactly how many of every group were killed; six million of twelve million is an estimate on both ends, but it is an educated estimate and if you tell me not that many Jews died you will be banned from reading this).

The Nazis did not, as David Baddiel points out, target Europeans who happened to be Jewish; they targeted Jews. They called us rats, diseased, communists, "internationalists," elites, foreigners. They talked about how we, first and foremost, were polluting their countries and their bloodlines with out intermarriages and our presence and our existence. They asked what to do with us as a problem for the nations of Europe to solve, and they had a solution for it waiting as soon as the camps could be built.

Remove that and you're not teaching the Holocaust. You're teaching about genocide, possibly. You're teaching about tragedy, certainly. But you're not teaching about the Holocaust. Because when you make it generic bigotry, when you don't want to talk about the hatred the Nazis had not just for anyone who opposed them but for whole ethnicities and bloodlines, you've removed the specific tragedy of the Shoah.

There was a recent poll in which 25% of Germans polled believed their family members who were alive at the time had helped Jews in some capacity during the Holocaust.
In reality there are 27,921 recognized by Israel as Righteous Among the Nations, Israel's award for those of non-Jewish descent who risked their lives to assist Jews during the Holocaust. Out of a population of roughly 450 million people in Europe before WWII, that means in actuality only .006% of people risked their lives to assist us.
Even if we throw in everyone who helped in any way, throw in all the people who helped because they were bribed to, and assume a huge underreporting...do we think that number even gets to 0.1%? Even if we're only taking Germany's roughly 80 million before the war and assuming EVERY SINGLE Righteous lived in Germany, it's 0.035%. And yet 25% of Germans, a country which teaches the Holocaust very directly and without the USA's desire to "think of the children" and tone it down, think their family members helped.

How much worse do you think it is when we teach American children about the Holocaust as just generic bigotry, and focus on the 0.006%? How much of an outsized impact do they grow up thinking the helpers had? How much do you think they grow up thinking the atrocities weren't that widespread, when so many people helped?
This is a country where also last week a school assignment went around asking students to write a letter to President Andrew Jackson from someone who wanted the Cherokee removed, and where last year textbooks circulated implying that the Trail of Tears was voluntary. Where we can still find example after example of lessons treating slavery as at worst a mixed bag if not outright beneficial.

And that's without considering that the Venn diagram of the people in Tennessee arguing at the School Board meeting that they shouldn't use Maus because of 8 swear words and the people arguing that we can't remove statues of Confederate Generals is just a circle.
Teaching history matters. Teaching specific history, warts and all, matters. Because when history is reduced to only the feel good parts, the stories about heroic people who are doing good things, we push the victims out of their own story. We force them to be nothing more than a vehicle for our own feelings about heroism, forgiveness, and righteousness.

Teaching the Holocaust without the ugly, specific, and Jewish details gives us generic stories about bigotry to be overcome that give us nothing to prepare for when it happens again. Because the only weapons we have to fight against it are the lessons we learn from it; and we should be very suspicious of the people who want to limit what lessons we can learn, for any reason.

 

[BruceVC]

6 minutes ago, Raithe said:

 

 

 I agree the book Maus shouldnt have been banned in Tennessee  but the good news is  as usual with this type of cancel culture it is now a bestseller on places like Amazon

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/28/maus-amazon-bestseller-after-tennessee-school-ban.html

But what concerns me much more is commentators and activists like Goldberg who  dont even know the history  and facts of their own arguments, how much other selective history is out their that influences people ?

[Amentep]

13 hours ago, Raithe said:

 

Hmmm, wonder how long this lasts after the 1st Muslim student brings a case up regarding some teacher talking about Christmas or Mardi Gras or something in school...?

20 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

 I agree the book Maus shouldnt have been banned in Tennessee  but the good news is  as usual with this type of cancel culture it is now a bestseller on places like Amazon

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/01/28/maus-amazon-bestseller-after-tennessee-school-ban.html

But what concerns me much more is commentators and activists like Goldberg who  dont even know the history  and facts of their own arguments, how much other selective history is out their that influences people ?

I'd imagine pretty much everyone's view of history is selective.  We can't remember everything, so we remember the bits that resonate with us.  Note, I do not think that Whoopi's statements are due to selective history as I've heard other African-Americans express a similar opinion - that a lot of the bigotry (and resultant actions) in Europe (whether an extreme like Nazis vs Jews and Roma, or just various governments treatment of Irish, Polish, Italian, Basque or other emigres) isn't fundamentally the same as what befell Africans.