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The All Things Political Topic - Those who do not move, do not notice their chains


Gromnir

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so, not just vandalism and general overexuberance.

also

https://www.politico.com/news/2021/12/17/trump-ally-brandon-straka-information-525272

or can search engine brandon straka. the reason am posting is 'cause it were just revealed how given his level o' cooperating during january 3 interviews, the doj is recommending four months o' home detention and three years o' probation-- is what amounts to a reward for whatever info he chose to share.

and finally, 'cause is surprising considerable january 6 relevant news today,

raskin has been making the rounds on tv media calling pence a "hero." doesn't seem coincidental as the vp's team has been instrumental in aiding the committee, there is now a serious effort to get pence testimony. the gop plan behind january 6 were far more real than most wanna admit, and pence may speak to such plans as he were kinda a pivotal player.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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2 hours ago, Gromnir said:
 the gop plan behind january 6 were far more real than most wanna admit, and pence may speak to such plans as he were kinda a pivotal player.

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The problem that makes it unbelievable is using the terms "GOP" and "plan" in the same sentence without a negative qualifier. 

:lol: I kid. I'm actually beginning to agree with you on this the more I learn about what went on behind the scenes. 

It does not make we like or respect the Democrats any more. It just makes me hate the Republicans more. To tell you the truth I didn't think any more water could be drained from that pond but here we are. 

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"Be on the lookout for thieves, trespassers, aaaand COMMUNISTS!"

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6 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

I'd actually say Covid is an example of what we can accomplish in this country when we stop worrying about profit margins in the US. It varies by state, but we have thrown together a massive operation of testing and vaccinations that has managed to reach over 60% of the country in less than a year, and it is offered freely. I've been nothing but impressed by the process that has helped my entire family get vaccinated and tested regularly. 

The problem is that vaccination isn't even half the battle. We've had hospitals getting packed past capacity for a while now and that is overwhelming the medical system. The rona still spreads among the vaccinated and while right now it is substantially milder with the vax (thank god), a new variant could come along and **** that all up. We are nowhere near out of the woods yet and the government response has been either to not do nearly enough or actively make things worse. After 868874 dead bodies have piled up over the last two years I fear we're going to cross 1 million before April and that may not even be the halfway point.

But my point was less of how bad the rona is and more how bad US healthcare is with being prohibitively expensive and all that. It's great I can get vaccinated for free but if I get sick with something else I am ****ed. My insurance does **** all and going outside of insurance for health care would financially ruin me.

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Just now, Guard Dog said:

The problem that makes it unbelievable is using the terms "GOP" and "plan" in the same sentence without a negative qualifier. 

 

am agreeing on this point, and have noted how one o' the difficulties in any effort to prosecute trump in particular for anything criminal is the recognition o' just how erratic and irrational his observed behavior has been. how do you prove intent and coordination for trump, who would appear to frequent act impulsive and even seeming works hard against self interest? the gop is likewise all over the metaphorical map but some o' this is in part 'cause they would appear to be trying to keep up with trump. 

'course january 6 weren't orchestrated sole by trump 'cause after four years in office it were clear 45 had no idea how government worked. trump sure as hell didn't concoct a multistep plan to interfere with the electoral college which would rely on complicit state legislators and or the enough chaos at the Capitol to legitimize military intervention. however, is hard to believe 45 were no more than an innocent dupe being carried along by meadows and others. no doubt somebody made a simplified powerpoint presentation for trump which illuminated the important stuff.

but yeah, in a criminal trial, is gonna be difficult to prove trump were knowledgeable 'nuff 'bout anything to be part o' a plan, and mere being complicit ain't enough for some criminal charges.

HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Repurposing a few posts to start a new thread...

Old thread

 

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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10 hours ago, Gfted1 said:

The Forward Party. I agree with all of his political positions:

<eaten by bad forum quoting function>

But ESPECIALLY I want to line my pockets with UBI and UHC. If he can get around to it I will also accept UFE (universal free education / student loan forgiveness) and UFH (universal free houses / mortgage forgiveness). :yes:

Their intentions sounds very un-American, don't they?

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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@Gorth and @Chairchucker

You guys must have heard the shameful news, the Oz immigration minister has cancelled Djokovic's visa....he cant play now :(

I think this was a political decision to pander to the anti-Novak sentiment on the streets in Australia, its not how a decision like this should have been made 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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50 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

@Gorth and @Chairchucker

You guys must have heard the shameful news, the Oz immigration minister has cancelled Djokovic's visa....he cant play now :(

I think this was a political decision to pander to the anti-Novak sentiment on the streets in Australia, its not how a decision like this should have been made 

Yeah, I'm heartbroken... 😂

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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10 hours ago, Gorth said:

Their intentions sounds very un-American, don't they?

Thats one of the amazing things about the world we live in, it changes over time. Ive somehow managed to keep the wolves off my door but that doesnt mean there arent better ways. :shrugz: Four of those ways would be UBI, UHC, UFE and UFH.

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3 hours ago, Sarex said:

Would be funny if they end up deporting Djokovic and as a consequence lose the Grand Slam classification of the tournament.

They always seems to have a hard time playing for hours in 40c, so many players might actually feel a bit relieved if it were to happen. Best thing I ever personally saw at an Australian Open was Billy Idol performing live :)

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“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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7 hours ago, BruceVC said:

@Gorth and @Chairchucker

You guys must have heard the shameful news, the Oz immigration minister has cancelled Djokovic's visa....he cant play now :(

I think this was a political decision to pander to the anti-Novak sentiment on the streets in Australia, its not how a decision like this should have been made 

That explains why my Serb contacts on Facebook are so angry today. Well, more angry than usual.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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13 hours ago, Keyrock said:

How long until the US has a social credit score system?

a) 5 years

b) 10 years

c) 25 years

d) mystery potluck option

Called a bank balance, no ?

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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One thing to note is that it's very strange how a minister can override a ruling of a court in a democratic country. I think the Western news would have a conniption if something like that happened in any non Western aligned country.

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9 minutes ago, Sarex said:

One thing to note is that it's very strange how a minister can override a ruling of a court in a democratic country. I think the Western news would have a conniption if something like that happened in any non Western aligned country.

Pffft, here a federal judge can do that. 

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22 minutes ago, Sarex said:

One thing to note is that it's very strange how a minister can override a ruling of a court in a democratic country. I think the Western news would have a conniption if something like that happened in any non Western aligned country.

I don't think the minister is, they cancelled the visa for other reasons than the first time.  So many bites at the cherry, so to speak.

Edited by Malcador

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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14 hours ago, Keyrock said:

How long until the US has a social credit score system?

a) 5 years

b) 10 years

c) 25 years

d) mystery potluck option

e) We already have it.

I mean, with social media and credit scores, we are pretty much already there. You can get cancelled quickly enough with those.

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1 hour ago, Gfted1 said:

Pffft, here a federal judge can do that. 

But that makes sense, no? This would be more along the line of a Secretary of State overriding a court rulling.

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

I don't think the minister is, they cancelled the visa for other reasons than the first time.  So many bites at the cherry, so to speak.

Maybe I misunderstood what happened then. I was under the impression that the judge reinstated the visa as he considered that Djokovic had fulfilled his obligation for that type of visa and then the minister canceled it again under whatever reason.

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Ultimately, entry is always at the discretion of the host country. There isn't a capital R Right of entry unless you're a citizen or permanent resident (or Schengen and similar), there's only a privilege of entry. Most of the time you won't get Ministers interfering as there's no reason to  and they have better things to do than read random immigration/ visa applications but they have the ability to in most places. Indeed they can approve applications that have otherwise been rejected if they want to as well as reject them.

I don't think there's much doubt that this was a 'political' rejection designed to try and staunch the embarrassment of having the court overrule the initial rejection and keep Djokovic in the news instead of Scott Morrison's covid disasters, but it's within the law. Under normal circumstances a rich and powerful person who'd made some errors on their paperwork would get an override approval from a Minister instead, if they were important enough, but these aren't normal circumstances.

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2 hours ago, Hurlsnot said:

e) We already have it.

I mean, with social media and credit scores, we are pretty much already there. You can get cancelled quickly enough with those.

the thing is, in the US those methods you mention for controlling the populace ain't directly attributable to The Government, and similar options has been 'round for centuries in one form or another.

 The-Death-of-Socrates-178-004.jpg?width=

of all the things we are concerned 'bout, a social credit score system taking hold in the US is not reaching the top 100 list o' worries. first we would need a national police power and supporting infrastructure, which is even less likely today than twenty years past. social credit is not like the half-arsed and doomed border wall funding or even fed agents in numbers showing up at night in unmarked vans to kidnap people off the streets o' US cities. a genuine social credit score system is gonna need be having widespread state and fed support in terms o' monies and manpower, if only briefly, and am not seeing that kinda cooperation happening anytime, much less anytime soon, though pretend as if it could never happen is also foolish.

we mentioned previous, but when states began implementing covid mandates, many local sheriffs and mayors simple said, "no." 

...

uh, ok. what now? from a practical perspective, there was little governors could do to enforce guidelines and mandates. social credit is monumental more difficult to imagine into being in the US 'cause there ain't a national police power, so the fed government would actual have less power to enforce than the governors who sat impotent while sheriffs and mayors flouted the law. unless social credit were something which The People were near universal demanding, which is indeed a real and serious possibility and should not be dismissed outta hand, am not seeing it being a government tool.

our serious response to less than serious observations.

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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15 minutes ago, Hurlsnot said:

https://www.yahoo.com/news/monett-high-school-removes-social-213807435.html

Parents, man. I think the teachers would have been alright if they didn't say the alternative assigned reading would be more difficult, but I still shake my head at the whole thing. Let's create a committee for every bit of curriculum. 

 

amusing part for us were:

"She said students initially assigned "Dear Martin" will instead be required to read "To Kill A Mockingbird" by Harper Lee."

the parents angered by having their children indoctrinated with liberal notions o' social justice will no doubt cheer their victory... which is kinda strange 'cause am assuming most 'o such parents had to read to kill a mockingbird in high school. might be giving too much credit to parents, but am suspecting at least a few googled "harper lee" and then shared what her novel were 'bout with likeminded lovers o' liberty and family values in rural sw Missouri. 

HA! Good Fun! 

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Never heard of Dear Martin. I read the description on Amazon. It likely has some value as a teaching tool over Mockingbird since it's actually told from the perspective of the person who suffered an injustice rather than a witness to it. Bur, in my biased (no pun intended LOL) Mockingbird is probably a much better read. Likely a much harder read. 

"Be on the lookout for thieves, trespassers, aaaand COMMUNISTS!"

The Director FO4

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our high school taught to kill a mockingbird, native son, and invisible man. farewell to manzanar and a few others were staples. were hardly a shortage o' what would be considered social justice material and we went to high school during the freaking 80s back before social justice (specific tied to racial equality issues) were kinda a thing, or at least not that label. am betting those books is still on more than a few school reading lists, and is doubtful anything in dear martin, a book described as ya fare, is gonna shock or offend a person who were okie dokie with native son or invisible man.

'course the books we read were thirty or forty years old when we were in high school. bigger thomas were not a familiar character. even in our day those titles were having settings a bit temporal remote and were less accessible to the average high schooler. 

parents fighting stoopid battles over school reading lists is eye-roll worthy from our pov. is swell parents care 'bout such stuff and they should be involved in the education o' their offspring, but am betting the children o' parents angry 'bout dear martin woulda' benefitted more if mom and/or pop were involved in their ordinary day-to-day studies instead o' tilting at windmills. same parental effort woulda' been better spent taking kids to the library on weekends or perhaps reading dear martin and then discussing the book with their kids.

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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