Politics and Statesmenship: A Forum Special Report

[Gromnir]

 

 

is nothing to "call-in."  the debt is in the form o' fixed-term securities and is popular in large part 'cause the roi is guaranteed. is other options for china, but isn't a call-in kinda thing and 'course china and japan, being so dependant on exports to the US, also wanna keep their currencies relative weak compared to the dollar.

 

 

Refusing to roll over debt is the same as calling it in to all practical purposes since the system relies absolutely on Confidence and for constant deficit spending it ultimately relies on new loans to pay off old ones as they come due.

 

again, this is a mischaracterization.  each individual t-bill, note and bond is paid in a timely fashion by US treasury-- is not rollover.  sure, the US steadily and dangerous issues more notes bills and bonds, which is readily snapped up by any number o' investors domestic or foreign, but the initial principal AND the interest is all paid off on the notes held by china, japan, brazil, ireland and others.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

 

" The U.S. government allowed Snowden to achieve a position of trust in an area of vital interest to national security. Anyone who has held a clearance, as I did a few decades ago, gets routinely briefed on the necessity for maintaining security. Cleared personnel are also briefed on ways to blow the whistle on illegality, unethical behavior and other wrongdoing – through company management, through the agency that grants the clearance or, if need be, by going to Congress. None of these paths involve passing sensitive materials to the press " 

You didn't respond to my point. Snowden could show how innocent civilians got murdered by the US military. They face no charges for that, despite breaking the law. So why should Snowden?

 

 

Snowden didn't reveal anything about the Iraq war or release confidential USA  Diplomatic cables, that was Assange. Snowden released highly confidential  information about Prism which is basically a super-computer used to ensure advanced cyber-security to protect the USA and its allies. Considering how cyber-attacks are on the increase and real this should be paramount to a country like the USA

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/wonk/wp/2013/06/12/heres-everything-we-know-about-prism-to-date/?utm_term=.d3e5c3eb4963

 

 

I cant respond to your point because Snowden was never in position to reveal " deaths of Iraq civilians " 

 

But I assume you asking why are allegations and or real accusations about killing of civilians in wars like Iraq and Afghanistan not addressed? They are addressed in most cases  when there is a legitimate crime, see the links below. Saying all that it is  not the official policy of the USA to kill civilians and sometimes there is collateral damage and mistakes happen in war 

 

https://www.nytimes.com/2010/09/20/us/20soldiers.html

 

https://www.latimes.com/nation/la-xpm-2013-nov-16-la-na-nn-barbera-charged-soldier-20131116-story.html

 

https://www.cbsnews.com/news/iraq-2-us-soldiers-charged-with-murder/

 

https://www.aljazeera.com/news/americas/2012/03/201232222412129838.html

[Chilloutman]

1. Prism is just used by government to spy on its own citizens

2. Ecuador dropped Assange because wiki leaks spilled the beans on new president doing shady business with offshore companies. If anything Assange have balls of steel to bite the hand which feeds him. He stands by his principles in face of life in jail and Bruce have guts to shame him is next level of ignorance

[Zoraptor]

Prism is also used to circumvent protections for countries' own citizens by using a 5 eyes partner to do the 'illegal' spying- which isn't 'illegal' if another country does it- as well. If the US wants some illegal spying done and doesn't want to risk being caught they'll just use CUKANZ (appropriate acronym too*) to do it. Fifty bucks says that US agencies can 'honestly' say that they never spied on the Trump campaign because they outsourced it to canucks, brits (almost certainly), ockers or kiwis. Don't really know why they bother, the head of the NSA can bald facedly lie repeatedly to congress with zero repercussions anyway...

 

*Seven years of the UK insisting they weren't sitting outside the embassy to enforce an extradition, and half an hour after they get Assange the US makes them look like a itty bitty bitch.

 

again, this is a mischaracterization.  each individual t-bill, note and bond is paid in a timely fashion by US treasury-- is not rollover.  sure, the US steadily and dangerous issues more notes bills and bonds, which is readily snapped up by any number o' investors domestic or foreign, but the initial principal AND the interest is all paid off on the notes held by china, japan, brazil, ireland and others.  

 

 

That is roll over debt. You're mistaking individual loans for the debt itself, the loans are repaid- otherwise you're in default- but the debt itself isn't and old loans are replaced wholesale, plus a bit, by new. You aren't rolling over the loan itself, but you are rolling over the debt associated with the loan e.g: if you always pay off your credit card with the credit from another credit card then you're rolling over debt and you never actually repay the principal. You do repay the loan associated with the credit card regularly, but not the debt itself. If you pay off your visa with your mastercard, then your mastercard with your amex, then your amex with your visa you're rolling the debt over as the debt itself does not decrease; and if one of them refuses to let you keep doing it you're in trouble because at that point you will have to (try) and repay actual principal.

[Gromnir]

yet again, the debt cannot be "called in" as is being paid with each fixed period bond.  the US does indeed rollover the debt, but is not a rollover loan, and again, can't be called in by the lender, china in this case.  is fixed term.  the loan is paid. the US auctions off the subsequent bonds.  china happens to be largest purchaser and they increase or decrease their involvement in such purchase to affect relative currency values.  there is no negotiation to extend period o' period o' repayment by charging a fee, which is what happens with rollover o' loans and refusal o' which would be tantamount to calling in the debt.

 

again, nothing to call in.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Zoraptor]

Irrelevant, since i never said loans could be called in nor rolled over, only overall debt. You seem a bit confused by the two concepts, so I'll have another go at explaining for you.

 

US government debt consists of lots of loans, mostly in the form of bonds. These cannot be called in, but money from the issue of new bonds is used to repay the old ones. Refusal to buy new bonds to replace the old ones results in the debt associated with those bonds being called in- it now has to be repaid, without issue of new loans from that lender (China)- whereas previously new loans/ bond purchases would be made rolling the debt over. Using a new loan to repay the old one means that overall debt does not decrease and is not repaid on its theoretical expiry, it's just reissued as new debt and rolled over; refusal to buy newly issued bonds however results in that debt actually having to be repaid; and more reliance on other lenders, higher interest rates due to reduced Confidence and if extreme enough complete collapse of the debt system and outright default.

 

Same as the credit card example, overall debt wise it doesn't matter if you owe nothing to visa and mastercard and a lot to amex, and cycle through taking loans from each. New loans, but new loans covering the exact same debt (plus a bit each time). When one provider refuses to continue the debt is called and you have to repay- or find a way to continue rolling over with higher costs. It's not a particularly complicated idea.

 

(Government) Loans don't get rolled over (in general, since there have been exceptions) but if you're running deficits the underlying debt absolutely does since you're paying off old loans with new ones.

[Katphood]

Russia has no interest in respecting any USA extradition request

 

 

One could only wonder...WHY?!

[Gromnir]

Irrelevant, since i never said loans could be called in nor rolled over, only overall debt. You seem a bit confused by the two concepts, so I'll have another go at explaining for you.

 

 

 

reimagine all you want, what you said were, 

 

"In the long term sure, when someone gets the balls to actually call in unsustainable US debt- in the full knowledge that the US would likely tell you to FOAD and a demand would likely implode the world economy you rely on."

 

reimagine which, again, is a mischaracterization o' what can happen.  try and rest if you will, but what were criticizing  were what you said and not what you is imagining into being

 

is no possible call-in.  is nothing to demand. is nothing for US to say "foad" in response to.  is fixed term treasure securities.  you wanna reimagine 'cause what you initial said made no sense. 

 

yes, china could decide to not invest as heavily in US securities as they has done so recent, which would have an impact on us dollar.  far different from  call-in and demands.  again, our complaint, stated numerous times, were the rather gross mischaracterization.  you wanna abandon the original untenantable position? great.  congrats.  

 

HA! Good Fun! 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So the IRGC are now officially labled as terrorists: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/trump-irgc-us-iran-terrorism-sanctions-tehran-lebanon-hezbollah-a8862301.html%3famp

If war breaks out, I'll head straight for the U.S/Europe as a refugee. Anybody has a place for a guy with two cats?!

I might have something, but my fiance is a Lebanese woman with some very strong opinions on certain issues and we are likely on a watch list.

 

" The U.S. government allowed Snowden to achieve a position of trust in an area of vital interest to national security. Anyone who has held a clearance, as I did a few decades ago, gets routinely briefed on the necessity for maintaining security. Cleared personnel are also briefed on ways to blow the whistle on illegality, unethical behavior and other wrongdoing – through company management, through the agency that grants the clearance or, if need be, by going to Congress. None of these paths involve passing sensitive materials to the press " 

You didn't respond to my point. Snowden could show how innocent civilians got murdered by the US military. They face no charges for that, despite breaking the law. So why should Snowden?

The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual crime. Bruce will stan the former for eternity because behind the exterior of woke liberal he's a borderline fascist, and I'm being completely unironic.

[ShadySands]

Congrats KP!

[bringingyouthefuture]

I like the idea of Wikileaks, but the guy in my eyes broke his own rules, he weaponized his gathering and dissemination of information in the name of his own personal ego- he basically became what he tried to fight against.

 

It seems like he was a little naive when he started Wikileaks, thinking it would place him into hero status - but when he bucked those willing to ruin his life with whatever charge they could find against him (basically 21st century politics - maybe even created), he realized he might end op a martyr - or basically just a criminal - so he weaponized Wikileaks as the noose got tighter.  Anyway Wikileaks needs to exist - Julian Assange I could care less about at this point, he is just as bad as everyone else.

 

My final criticism - he basically stayed in jail for how many years in an embassy?  If he had any self-respect he should of turned himself in, or been like Paul Watson - live on a boat in international waters lol.

 

Last, I don't have all the facts, but in my own layman understanding, this is how I see him.  Either that or he and Snowden were just Russian spies to begin with   

[Zoraptor]

The only people saying that Assange weaponised wikileaks are people with a vested interest in him having weaponised it so he isn't a journalist any more. He basically got kicked from the Ecuadorian embassy for helping expose the corruption of the Ecuadorian President.

 

Actually, kind of amusing seeing the US trying to extradite a journalist for doing their job given some earlier comments about how fantastic free speech protections are in the US.

 

 

Irrelevant, since i never said loans could be called in nor rolled over, only overall debt. You seem a bit confused by the two concepts, so I'll have another go at explaining for you.

reimagine all you want, what you said were, 
 
"In the long term sure, when someone gets the balls to actually call in unsustainable US debt- in the full knowledge that the US would likely tell you to FOAD and a demand would likely implode the world economy you rely on."
 
reimagine which, again, is a mischaracterization o' what can happen.

 

No it isn't. You're just talking about what happens now as if that is what will happen forever and anon no matter what happens; I'm talking about what happens "in the long term" when the debt becomes "unsustainable". Your reading comprehension is, as always, simply dreadful.
 
The US has had a decade of near trillion dollar deficits, if that continues the situation as it is now will only be applicable for a certain amount of time, until someone with clout, most likely China, calls the situation out.
 

is no possible call-in.  is nothing to demand. is nothing for US to say "foad" in response to.  is fixed term treasure securities.  you wanna reimagine 'cause what you initial said made no sense.

 
Refusal to roll over the debt by accepting new loans is calling in in a system where roll over is not just expected but required. If you are defaulting you're telling your creditors to FOAD, especially if you have the leverage the US has. US fixed term securities are only gilt edged so long as the US is solvent and can pay them back, ultimately due to being in sustained deficit by issuing new ones.

[bringingyouthefuture]

Hmm, I think you are confusing Wikileaks (an idea) with a man (definitely with flaws).  Like I said I don't know a lot but doing a brief search there arestories out there that paint him as a journalist turned anarchist (I use this term lightly as I don't really see him as an activist).

 

Just one example:

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/julian-assange-arrested-journalists-defend/586936/

 

Trading cables with spies?  I'm not sure the guy seemed desperate and turned to playing politics as those with political power sought to silence him.  I am not saying I would of done much better in his shoes or I am right to criticize him, I just think his actions buried him deeper and he lost the moral high ground (or someone took it from him).  But again Wikileaks should exist definitely and it always will in some form or another

[Gromnir]

*chuckle*

 

telling us that eventual the system is unsustainable is not only preaching to the choir, but irrelevant.  talk about reading comprehension fails.  

 

china can call OUT the system by not buying US securities, as we has said, but they can't make demands on the debt or call IN those debts as you stated earlier. is fixed term security notes and not credit cards. duh. is not same as cancelling a line o' credit.  even if china stopped buying US securities tomorrow, it wouldn't necessarily result in any kinda overall US default short or long term.  the bulk o' the debt is in the form o' multi-year bonds and  is 8% of total debt, much o' which would absorbed by other trading partners and the US itself, 'cause again, the US treasury notes is a fantastic investment and is in much demand.

 

china actual has less clout to call out the system as China is so dependent on exports to the US.  one o' the reasons china invests so heavily in securities is to keep the dollar relative strong. 

 

"In the long term sure, when someone gets the balls to actually call in unsustainable US debt- in the full knowledge that the US would likely tell you to FOAD and a demand would likely implode the world economy you rely on."

 

were a ridiculous statement.  weeping 'bout once again being misunderstood when your statements is so clear and patent wrong is the norm. no need to revisit numerous recent zor blunders and misstatements. perhaps you were going for hyperbolic statement for effect?  dunno. regardless, as we has said already, were a mischaracterization... which is actual a generous way to put it.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[BruceVC]

 

So the IRGC are now officially labled as terrorists: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/trump-irgc-us-iran-terrorism-sanctions-tehran-lebanon-hezbollah-a8862301.html%3famp

If war breaks out, I'll head straight for the U.S/Europe as a refugee. Anybody has a place for a guy with two cats?!

I might have something, but my fiance is a Lebanese woman with some very strong opinions on certain issues and we are likely on a watch list.

 

" The U.S. government allowed Snowden to achieve a position of trust in an area of vital interest to national security. Anyone who has held a clearance, as I did a few decades ago, gets routinely briefed on the necessity for maintaining security. Cleared personnel are also briefed on ways to blow the whistle on illegality, unethical behavior and other wrongdoing – through company management, through the agency that grants the clearance or, if need be, by going to Congress. None of these paths involve passing sensitive materials to the press " 

You didn't respond to my point. Snowden could show how innocent civilians got murdered by the US military. They face no charges for that, despite breaking the law. So why should Snowden?

The state calls its own violence law, but that of the individual crime. Bruce will stan the former for eternity because behind the exterior of woke liberal he's a borderline fascist, and I'm being completely unironic.

 

No KP you got it wrong, I am not a fascist. I believe in the rule of law and order but in times of war this sometimes becomes blurred so we need to look at each example of " violations of law " in the context of the  situation and reality of the event

 

Im interested in what you define as " strong opinions "  of your finance ?

[BruceVC]

Hmm, I think you are confusing Wikileaks (an idea) with a man (definitely with flaws).  Like I said I don't know a lot but doing a brief search there arestories out there that paint him as a journalist turned anarchist (I use this term lightly as I don't really see him as an activist).

 

Just one example:

 

https://www.theatlantic.com/ideas/archive/2019/04/julian-assange-arrested-journalists-defend/586936/

 

Trading cables with spies?  I'm not sure the guy seemed desperate and turned to playing politics as those with political power sought to silence him.  I am not saying I would of done much better in his shoes or I am right to criticize him, I just think his actions buried him deeper and he lost the moral high ground (or someone took it from him).  But again Wikileaks should exist definitely and it always will in some form or another

 

There is no country in the world that would be comfortable with confidential Diplomatic cables being distributed to the world, this is not the way countries and diplomatic communications work. He also played an unequivocal part in undermining Hilary Clinton and ensuring the Trump victory, yes Wikileaks wasn't one of the primary reasons Trump won but it was contributing factor 

 

Assange decided he was would target the USA in an utterly selective  and biased way ....he broke the law and now needs to face justice. I am glad he spent 7 years in the Ecuadorian embassy basically living in a room, as you mentioned this was similar to being in prison but a nice, internet-free, federal prison will be a better place for him so he can reflect on the harm he has caused  

[Blarghagh]

Im interested in

No you're not.

[BruceVC]

 

Im interested in

No you're not.

 

Yes I am, how else can I reject and  criticize it if I dont know what her views are 

Edited April 12, 2019 by BruceVC

[Amentep]

Assuming she's not a poster here, I find it highly unlikely criticism of KP's interpretations of her opinions will produce anything useful.

 

And if she does post here, if she wants her views criticised, she's free to post them here herself.

[Guard Dog]

Rand Paul asserts the powers of Congress. Out of 100 Senators and 435 House Reps only 3 stood up to both Obama & Trump equally: Rand Paul, Mike Lee, and Joe Manchin. I wish we had more like them

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?time_continue=1&v=ezSUVXcf0Q8

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Congrats KP!

Thanks. We haven't set a date or made any plans so right now it's just that things are more serious than moving in together.

No KP you got it wrong, I am not a fascist. I believe in the rule of law and order but in times of war this sometimes becomes blurred so we need to look at each example of " violations of law " in the context of the  situation and reality of the event

You routinely excuse and condone the use of power, often illegal by their own rules, by the state to crush so called "threats to the west" which ranges from informing people they are being illegally monitored or anything that may negatively impact profits. If such a position isn't fascism, it's a near relative that retains the totalitarian nature of fascism but with a more friendly coat of paint.

 

Im interested in what you define as " strong opinions "  of your finance ?

She's got too much sense to post here and I'm not giving you info to snitch. Find someone else to stalk.

[Guard Dog]

Wow, I missed a bombshell on the last page. Congrats KP. I wish you both the best life has to offer!

[Malcador]

Another one bites the dust

[Guard Dog]

Another one bites the dust

Just because it sucked for some of us doesn't mean it will suck for everyone. Besides, Gifted, Shady, Hurlshot, TN, all seem to have done well. So there is hope.

 

Not for me though. Two attempts and two failures. Either I'm a terrible judge of character or I'M the problem. Either way, not getting on THAT horse again. 

[Gfted1]

Congrats KP!