Amentep Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 start of old thread end of old thread New thread for all your political trash-talking needs. I cannot - yet I must. How do you calculate that? At what point on the graph do "must" and "cannot" meet? Yet I must - but I cannot! ~ Ro-Man Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringingyouthefuture Posted April 10, 2019 Share Posted April 10, 2019 https://www.nbcnews.com/card/poll-58-percent-voters-approve-president-trump-s-handling-economy-n992706 It is just one poll, but I agree this will be a major deciding factor in 2020, and Trump has a few things up his sleeve to make sure nothing goes too far South ... the first and foremost locking in trade deals in the next 2 years, fingers crossed. Not sure it was smart of him to balloon the deficit though for where we are at now ... “How do you 'accidentally' kill a nobleman in his own mansion?" "With a knife in the chest. Or, rather, a pair of knives in the chest...” The Final Empire, Mistborn Trilogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
smjjames Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) Increasing the deficit didn't stop Obama from being re-elected. Still, Trumps re-election, (or any other president in the past for that matter) rides a lot on the economy, which he is well aware of. Anyways, I'm not convinced that his adminstration can handle a downturn well enough not to completely botch it. It's probably going to depend a lot on the cause behind the downturn and how severe it is. Edited April 11, 2019 by smjjames Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bringingyouthefuture Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 I mean as reasons go though: 1 - Obama - Great Recession and ACA 2 - Bush #2 - Tax Cuts, 9/11 and Iraq War 3 - Trump - tax cuts (he could potentially argue he boosted economy to shore it up for a better bargaining position on trade - but that seems like a long shot to me) I don't know my point was not sure I would have grown the deficit just for a Tax Cut. For all the talk why don't they ever cut the budget first then base the tax cuts on what they were able to save at least - I am gonna answer my own question - because that wouldn't sell politically. “How do you 'accidentally' kill a nobleman in his own mansion?" "With a knife in the chest. Or, rather, a pair of knives in the chest...” The Final Empire, Mistborn Trilogy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 While presidents can be responsible for things, often times they are an agent of the zeitgeist. Where the most valuable trait is in with whom they side with. While society is not a zero sum game, it's often far more expedient to try to win it all for yourself in the short term. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Elerond Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Economy don't actually get boosted when deficits increases, even though it can feel like it, but it is just illusionary, because that boost that you feel in economy will cause in dent in economy in future. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gorth Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Who cares about politics anyway, there are more important things in life From the BBC: 'The revolution can wait. Football comes first'The mood in Sudan's capital, Khartoum, was different on Wednesday. Anti-government protesters put up huge screens to watch Barcelona beat Manchester United 1-0 in the Champions League quarter-final first leg."The revolution can wait," a journalist tweeted, summing up the mood of the crowd. 1 “He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 One thing that can unite 95% of the planet: ManU losing. Economy don't actually get boosted when deficits increases, even though it can feel like it, but it is just illusionary, because that boost that you feel in economy will cause in dent in economy in future. In the long term sure, when someone gets the balls to actually call in unsustainable US debt- in the full knowledge that the US would likely tell you to FOAD and a demand would likely implode the world economy you rely on. That's the perk of being the world's reserve currency and why the US defends the dollars position as such so aggressively- can't call in the debt without making the debt worthless, can't even increase interest rates to what they should be without damaging the world's economy. China (or anyone else, but practically it near has to be China) refusing to roll over US government debt is the equivalent of nuking the US and the world's economy, and everyone knows it. Everything relies on economic confidence being a virtuous circle, when it starts going vicious it can go vicious and circle spectacularly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gromnir Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) is serious misunderstanding 'bout US debt, the vast majority o' which is owned by US entities. china holding US debt is not something they can collect 'pon 'less they wanna lose big money. china, like many other foreign nations, invests heavily in t-bills, notes and bonds 'cause such has good roi and is extreme reliable. 2, 3, 5, 10 and even thirty year investments... along with short-term t-bills. holder o' the security must retain for period on face or they lose the interest payoff. is not as if major players in US securities like china, japan, brazil and ireland (which may surprise folks) is global loan sharks extending greater amounts o' credit to a deadbeat who can barely afford to pay the juice. is nothing to "call-in." the debt is in the form o' fixed-term securities and is popular in large part 'cause the roi is guaranteed. is other options for china, but isn't a call-in kinda thing and 'course china and japan, being so dependant on exports to the US, also wanna keep their currencies relative weak compared to the dollar. HA! Good Fun! Edited April 11, 2019 by Gromnir "If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927) "Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katphood Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 So the IRGC are now officially labled as terrorists: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/trump-irgc-us-iran-terrorism-sanctions-tehran-lebanon-hezbollah-a8862301.html%3famp If war breaks out, I'll head straight for the U.S/Europe as a refugee. Anybody has a place for a guy with two cats?! There used to be a signature here, a really cool one...and now it's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chilloutman Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 So the IRGC are now officially labled as terrorists: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/trump-irgc-us-iran-terrorism-sanctions-tehran-lebanon-hezbollah-a8862301.html%3famp If war breaks out, I'll head straight for the U.S/Europe as a refugee. Anybody has a place for a guy with two cats?! pfff, all same story, why can't you send handsome girls with dog? I would have place for them :/ 1 I'm the enemy, 'cause I like to think, I like to read. I'm into freedom of speech, and freedom of choice. I'm the kinda guy that likes to sit in a greasy spoon and wonder, "Gee, should I have the T-bone steak or the jumbo rack of barbecue ribs with the side-order of gravy fries?" I want high cholesterol! I wanna eat bacon, and butter, and buckets of cheese, okay?! I wanna smoke a Cuban cigar the size of Cincinnati in the non-smoking section! I wanna run naked through the street, with green Jell-O all over my body, reading Playboy magazine. Why? Because I suddenly may feel the need to, okay, pal? I've SEEN the future. Do you know what it is? It's a 47-year-old virgin sitting around in his beige pajamas, drinking a banana-broccoli shake, singing "I'm an Oscar Meyer Wiene" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ktchong Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) A fascinating and humorous introductory video to Evangelicals and the "Religious Right": Edited April 11, 2019 by ktchong Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Zoraptor Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 So the IRGC are now officially labled as terrorists: https://www.google.com/amp/s/www.independent.co.uk/news/world/middle-east/trump-irgc-us-iran-terrorism-sanctions-tehran-lebanon-hezbollah-a8862301.html%3famp As a connoisseur of passive aggressiveness I was amused by Iran naming US armed forces as terrorists in reciprocation. is nothing to "call-in." the debt is in the form o' fixed-term securities and is popular in large part 'cause the roi is guaranteed. is other options for china, but isn't a call-in kinda thing and 'course china and japan, being so dependant on exports to the US, also wanna keep their currencies relative weak compared to the dollar. Refusing to roll over debt is the same as calling it in to all practical purposes since the system relies absolutely on Confidence and for constant deficit spending it ultimately relies on new loans to pay off old ones as they come due. Refusing to roll over makes other lenders less likely to lend, and if they do they want more interest on the loans. If a big enough player expresses No Confidence the system breaks. At this point the biggest player who could do that is China, but we're not close to that happening, yet. If you have permanent deficits in the trillion dollar range p/a the loans will dry up eventually even if you are the reserve currency, and when they do principal actually has to be repaid rather than kicked down the road. It's the nuclear option and will be bad for everyone, but permanently increasing debt on that scale is fundamentally unsustainable and basically a pyramid scheme. At some point people realise they won't ever actually get repaid, then the race is on to make sure you're first in line to get what you can. OTOH, if you can pay your loans and interest back from cash reserves you cannot be insolvent by definition. That's why it was so obvious that Russia would not go bankrupt in 2014 despite many 'experts' claiming they would, they could pay every rouble they owed off multiple times without borrowing a rouble more- indeed, they can still do the same in 2019. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katphood Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 1 There used to be a signature here, a really cool one...and now it's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Oh look, violation of international law. "Justice!" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Excellent news and long overdue, the next step is to extradite him to the USA so he can hopefully spend a long period of time in a federal prison https://edition.cnn.com/uk/live-news/julian-assange-arrest-dle-gbr-intl/index.html "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blarghagh Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Naturally Bruce applauds the violation of international law "for the greater good". 2 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malcador Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 His accusations against Mr Assange also included blocking security cameras at the embassy, accessing security files and confronting guards. First and third is somewhat believable. Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
injurai Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Naturally Bruce applauds the violation of international law "for the greater good". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) Naturally Bruce applauds the violation of international law "for the greater good". How is him being arrested for skipping bail for sexual assault charges in Sweden , years later these were dropped, " breaking international law " ? https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/wikileaks/9519767/Julian-Assanges-backers-lose-200000-bail-money.html He broke the law, not the other way around and now the USA can request extradition. This is not guaranteed he will be extradited as the law needs to be followed if there is a case for this but we can hope it does happen Also the Ecuadorian president simply doesnt want Assange in there embassy for repeated violations of his refuge conditions https://www.thedailybeast.com/assange-how-ecuador-finally-got-sick-of-wikileaks-founder-and-ended-his-refuge-at-the-embassy-in-london Edited April 11, 2019 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Katphood Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Next stop is probably Edward Snowden but yeah, good luck with that one... 1 There used to be a signature here, a really cool one...and now it's gone. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) Next stop is probably Edward Snowden but yeah, good luck with that one... Absolutely, this would be another progressive development but Russia has no interest in respecting any USA extradition request so unfortunately this is unlikely to happen But Assange was always the primary instigator of constant " cyber espionage" crimes against the USA so this should send an important message that you cannot hide behind the Internet and assume you are untouchable when you break the law Edited April 11, 2019 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannock Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 Absolutely, this would be another progressive development but Russia has no interest in respecting any USA extradition request so unfortunately this is unlikely to happen But Assange was always the primary instigator of constant " cyber espionage" crimes against the USA so this should send an important message that you cannot hide behind the Internet and assume you are untouchable when you break the law But why should Snowden face the law for "cyber espionage", when the US military murders countless civilian innocents, without ever having to face up to any sort of law? Snowden broke the law, but he did the morally right thing, much like Daniel Ellsberg did for example. 1 I'll do it, for a turnip. DnD item quality description mod (for PoE2) by peardox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BruceVC Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 (edited) Absolutely, this would be another progressive development but Russia has no interest in respecting any USA extradition request so unfortunately this is unlikely to happen But Assange was always the primary instigator of constant " cyber espionage" crimes against the USA so this should send an important message that you cannot hide behind the Internet and assume you are untouchable when you break the law But why should Snowden face the law for "cyber espionage", when the US military murders countless civilian innocents, without ever having to face up to any sort of law? Snowden broke the law, but he did the morally right thing, much like Daniel Ellsberg did for example. Snowden wont face the same charges as Assange but he definitely broke the law and betrayed his country, he worked for the NSA and what he did cannot be condoned https://www.nytimes.com/roomfordebate/2013/06/11/in-nsa-leak-case-a-whistle-blower-or-a-criminal/edward-snowden-broke-the-law-and-should-be-prosecuted I have included a paragraph of the link around why he needs to face criminal charges " The U.S. government allowed Snowden to achieve a position of trust in an area of vital interest to national security. Anyone who has held a clearance, as I did a few decades ago, gets routinely briefed on the necessity for maintaining security. Cleared personnel are also briefed on ways to blow the whistle on illegality, unethical behavior and other wrongdoing – through company management, through the agency that grants the clearance or, if need be, by going to Congress. None of these paths involve passing sensitive materials to the press " Edited April 11, 2019 by BruceVC "Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss” John Milton "We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” - George Bernard Shaw "What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Mannock Posted April 11, 2019 Share Posted April 11, 2019 " The U.S. government allowed Snowden to achieve a position of trust in an area of vital interest to national security. Anyone who has held a clearance, as I did a few decades ago, gets routinely briefed on the necessity for maintaining security. Cleared personnel are also briefed on ways to blow the whistle on illegality, unethical behavior and other wrongdoing – through company management, through the agency that grants the clearance or, if need be, by going to Congress. None of these paths involve passing sensitive materials to the press " You didn't respond to my point. Snowden could show how innocent civilians got murdered by the US military. They face no charges for that, despite breaking the law. So why should Snowden? I'll do it, for a turnip. DnD item quality description mod (for PoE2) by peardox Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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