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Political Point and Counterpoint


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#41
Hurlshot

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As a real world example, I have $8,882 deducted a year for my family plan, my employer kicks in another $19,998 for the year. Then we have a $10,000 deductible that we have to hit, which we did last year. Add in co-pays we hit $40k for a healthy active family of 4 pretty easily. That doesn't include dental or eye care.  



#42
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Are they even medicining in the UK? :p

#43
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NHS in Britain performing badly is a meme thanks to the Daily Fail/ The Scum and the other garbage daily papers, but it does its job fine especially when it isn't being deliberately hamstrung by Tory politicians for ideological (and donor, financial type) purposes. It does have one fundamental advantage over the US in providing healthcare- far higher average population density.



#44
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quick observation:

 

am not knowing what trump meant by threatening to enforce free speech on campuses by executive order with fed funds being held hostage as the means o' enforcement, but am not liking.  first amendment already applies on public and, to a lesser degree, private campuses. understandably, and for what should be obvious reasons, public forum free speech ain't the same as academic free speech, so perhaps it is at such gaps the President seeks to bolster first amendment protections on campus. biology professor wanna teach creationism at UCSD? first amendment is not gonna be used to force board o' regents to allow professor wingnut to teach bible version o' evolution. however, am admitting the deplorable lack o' spine and integrity which has ubiquitous developed 'mongst University presidents and boards is disheartening.  'cause a bunch o' oversensitive children wanna be safe from unpleasant or unpopular ideas is hardly a valid academic reason for cancelling speaking engagements and presentations.  fear of student safety is all too often the knee-jerk excuse for caving to infantile pleas for safe zones. *snort* that being said, the notion the WH should be taking on the role o' Constitutional interpretation offends us more than a little. the idea o' the wh generating guidelines for free speech on campus is as idiotic as it is misguided.  then again, attempts at Constitutional overreach by this chief executive is no longer surprising.  

 

HA! Good Fun!



#45
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Healthcare even in the most wealthy and equally distributed countries still ends up push beyond capacity, I remember reading with the NHS impossible demands being made to meet certain quotas lead the doctors having to game the numbers. The expectation was to see more patients and reduce their time in waiting. The result was that patience would be "seen," but never by the doctor. Their wait times actually increased. Rescheduling of the next appointment grew to be further out. On paper everything looked better, in actually the system became even more inefficient and over burdened. Those that couldn't or wouldn't game their numbers faced fines and penalties that could loose them their practice. All so that the politicians could look good, though you might not cynically turn this on them, that is of course until nothing is done after the mistake goes public. When the news of the story broke, I recall little being done to change things. It's hard to allow stats to start looking worse, because then real malpractice might be allowed to creep back in under a guise.

 

This really has nothing to do with socialized medicine, but it is one start account of the NHS performing badly in a way that is more than a meme.



#46
smjjames

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quick observation:

 

am not knowing what trump meant by threatening to enforce free speech on campuses by executive order with fed funds being held hostage as the means o' enforcement, but am not liking.  first amendment already applies on public and, to a lesser degree, private campuses. understandably, and for what should be obvious reasons, public forum free speech ain't the same as academic free speech, so perhaps it is at such gaps the President seeks to bolster first amendment protections on campus. biology professor wanna teach creationism at UCSD? first amendment is not gonna be used to force board o' regents to allow professor wingnut to teach bible version o' evolution. however, am admitting the deplorable lack o' spine and integrity which has ubiquitous developed 'mongst University presidents and boards is disheartening.  'cause a bunch o' oversensitive children wanna be safe from unpleasant or unpopular ideas is hardly a valid academic reason for cancelling speaking engagements and presentations.  fear of student safety is all too often the knee-jerk excuse for caving to infantile pleas for safe zones. *snort* that being said, the notion the WH should be taking on the role o' Constitutional interpretation offends us more than a little. the idea o' the wh generating guidelines for free speech on campus is as idiotic as it is misguided.  then again, attempts at Constitutional overreach by this chief executive is no longer surprising.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I think Trump is just playing up to his base here, because you know, 'owning the libs'.



#47
Gorth

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Speaking from personal experience, England and Germany both had some rather outrageous taxes that are not included in the "official" tax rates if you check google for what their respective tax rates are. England (possibly the UK, not sure) has this thing called Council Tax, which is calculated on the councils estimated monthly rent value of a property. Germany has compulsory health care insurance, calculated based on your monthly income. Adding an extra 250-500 Euro (yes, for one person) monthly tax to the officially listed national tax rates. No idea what the monthly medical insurance is in other countries or how they are calculated.



#48
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quick observation:

 

am not knowing what trump meant by threatening to enforce free speech on campuses by executive order with fed funds being held hostage as the means o' enforcement, but am not liking.  first amendment already applies on public and, to a lesser degree, private campuses. understandably, and for what should be obvious reasons, public forum free speech ain't the same as academic free speech, so perhaps it is at such gaps the President seeks to bolster first amendment protections on campus. biology professor wanna teach creationism at UCSD? first amendment is not gonna be used to force board o' regents to allow professor wingnut to teach bible version o' evolution. however, am admitting the deplorable lack o' spine and integrity which has ubiquitous developed 'mongst University presidents and boards is disheartening.  'cause a bunch o' oversensitive children wanna be safe from unpleasant or unpopular ideas is hardly a valid academic reason for cancelling speaking engagements and presentations.  fear of student safety is all too often the knee-jerk excuse for caving to infantile pleas for safe zones. *snort* that being said, the notion the WH should be taking on the role o' Constitutional interpretation offends us more than a little. the idea o' the wh generating guidelines for free speech on campus is as idiotic as it is misguided.  then again, attempts at Constitutional overreach by this chief executive is no longer surprising.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 

I think Trump is just playing up to his base here, because you know, 'owning the libs'.

 

how many times have we heard the same?  started with doomed-from-the-start muslim ban.  during the campaign, moderate republican trump supporters defended trump muslim ban comments 'cause of course trump weren't serious 'bout an obvious unconstitutional muslim ban. posturing.  playing to the crowd. once he gets elected, all the bluster will evaporate. then trump got elected and he went and did it.  sure, the Courts knocked the stuffing outta his first couple attempts at a muslim ban (with worked in preferential treatment for christians no less,) but his base cheered 'cause trump did what he said he was going to do, or something like that.

 

trump is exact as cohen described in his testimony, but his base knows what trump is.  they don't care what trump is. the problem is, the base thinks all politicians is liars and cheats.  get a piece in the new yorker revealing just how intertwined is fox and trump?  the base doesn't care 'cause from their point o' view, all media sources lie and is biased.  the difference: trump is their cheat and their liar and he is fighting the dirty politicians and fake media with his own brand o' dirty tricks and biased media.  the base is gonna cheer him all the way, and perhaps cheer louder when he acts outrageous or underhanded 'cause is 'bout time somebody went after the dastardly nogoodniks in washington with a dose o' their own medicine, yes?

 

*groan*

 

is insane, but is happening. as long as trump keeps trying to do what he claims he is gonna do, no matter how asinine and doomed, his base is gonna keep cheering him forward, 'cause he is their guy. 

 

HA! Good Fun!



#49
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Hillary Clinton confirms in TV interview that she's running for President in 2020.

 

Oops, I meant to have a "not" in there. C'est la vie. :biggrin:


Edited by Bartimaeus, 04 March 2019 - 10:09 PM.


#50
smjjames

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Nice troll, heh. (and no, I didn't fall for it).


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#51
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:lol:  A few weeks ago someone sent me the tweet she sent to announce her candidacy in '16 with the date modified. It DID have me going for a bit. 


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#52
injurai

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She's gearing up for the Biden VP position.



#53
Kefka1134

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Free speech is wow didn't want to make a political point but I guess this is what's developed in video games and it needs to be put to rest. 

 

Free speech is not a right, certainly not inherent in nature, it's been made a right by the government and forces and nerds and all kinds of people.....

 

Basically saying what you actually want/think has been restricted in various ways various times by various cultures in various ways... and the reason

 

the issue is popping up in America , because, believe it or not, free speech in America has never been effectively at all times or continuously (as in 

only exists in burst and spurts) 

 

able to gurantee free speech, it's been repressed easily then and now. 

 

In the last 20 years, what developed is free speech got threated threatened as video games and the government/usa all these traditional nerd communities

etc were taked taken out of the picture....

 

Now people realize their free speech is gone, and blamed all those sub cultures, now they realize even after attacking them viciously free speech is still gone. 

 

Ergo we get the final conclusion, which is that they are wrong...

 

I mean honestly people though t like Los Angeles in America is some bastion of freedom, it's the COMPLETE opposite at least it always has been, who can

say when/ever that will change... it's the purest form of institutional repression. 

 

So if people want free speech, then they at least have to support the institutions that give them that....

 

What made WoW a big success is people could talk openly and freely for the first time for a very long time... on the internet... in various ways....

 

That couldn't happen before, what could replicate WoW's success in the future is just maintaining that... and believe it or not there's very few places where \

you can do that i.e. but here it is acceptable obviously within typical limits of a kind but essentially it's maintained in a way not given to others. 

 

I was/ well am to an esxtent one of the nerds responsible for helping create the OC inferno and I mean that not in a bad way like the explosion of possibilities there not directly but for example I provided a lot of advice in Everquest

on the quest system and developing it and trying to make sure it worked through my own trial and error... I thought quests were the future of games and quit

Everquest when it became clear that the decxd dedicated quest system wasn't going to work. Now I've never been an official employee of these places

but yes in terms of playing them and doing stuff I've followed a lot of these games and attempted to learn what is attracting players

and obviously many of us like the game universe and characters but the true/deepest attyraction has been commuhnication. 

 

I've already explained what, IMO, Obsidian should do from a game perspective, and at any rate as to the other reasons people are attracted to these places I guess it's just up to peole to recognize that free speech is being

provided here and other people should get it and the argument isn't about whether people should get it although some might argue that, from my POV

It's recognizing that many peole don't have it. 

 

And then why they don't have it, and why these forces provide it, and honestly tons of other questions... that discussion should

just be getting started I guess right about now and we can move on from there more or less I believe. 

 

The free speech side is also recognizing that Orange County is actually run by a guy who stra traces his politics to the east of America

where law has traditionally resides, such as Tennessee and so on (I believe Donald Bren speaks with a southern accent actually, for ex)

 

Corporations, regular government people, nerds, non-nerds, just... the forces/combination of factors that provide good things

is mysterious and leaving parts out is bad... identity is good but failing to understand the big coalition thing is also bad IMO. 

 

I think this also spills into why I don't believe TOW will be a hit... I mean it'll sell... but it's retrograde... honestly all of the

Obsidian/Fallout kinda games are more or less too retro.... for super mainstream success. 

 

Like in Fallout 1 the enemy is the enclave... kinda…. but really the Enclave (remnants of the US govt) and the renegades in Fallout

are basically both minorities, they rely on each other I think... and what should happen is it should go forward. 

 

In fact, the brotherhood of steel runs more or less like a kind of government already, it's organized and institutionakl, so the enclave

should for it's own part recognize that this isn't wanton chaos, it's people that created some kind of space out of chaos...

 

It's more or less a replication of greek mythology etc and the idea that there is nothing and then there is a light of a kind... 

 

But as well know.. the Greeks were eventually defated… so what does provide free speech?

 

Well I don't know how much it matters... but I can tell you that if there were ancient greeks, and they did awesome things, 

and they're spiritual essence lives on on now in some form, then they are definitely inm important in one form or another. 


Edited by Kefka1134, 05 March 2019 - 07:53 AM.


#54
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She's gearing up for the Biden VP position.

 

I would love seeing Clinton announced as Sanders' VP. The meltdowns would be delicious



#55
Pidesco

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Free speech is wow didn't want to make a political point but I guess this is what's developed in video games and it needs to be put to rest. 

 

Free speech is not a right, certainly not inherent in nature, it's been made a right by the government and forces and nerds and all kinds of people.....

 

Basically saying what you actually want/think has been restricted in various ways various times by various cultures in various ways... and the reason

 

the issue is popping up in America , because, believe it or not, free speech in America has never been effectively at all times or continuously (as in 

only exists in burst and spurts) 

 

able to gurantee free speech, it's been repressed easily then and now. 

 

In the last 20 years, what developed is free speech got threated threatened as video games and the government/usa all these traditional nerd communities

etc were taked taken out of the picture....

 

Now people realize their free speech is gone, and blamed all those sub cultures, now they realize even after attacking them viciously free speech is still gone. 

 

Ergo we get the final conclusion, which is that they are wrong...

 

I mean honestly people though t like Los Angeles in America is some bastion of freedom, it's the COMPLETE opposite at least it always has been, who can

say when/ever that will change... it's the purest form of institutional repression. 

 

So if people want free speech, then they at least have to support the institutions that give them that....

 

What made WoW a big success is people could talk openly and freely for the first time for a very long time... on the internet... in various ways....

 

That couldn't happen before, what could replicate WoW's success in the future is just maintaining that... and believe it or not there's very few places where \

you can do that i.e. but here it is acceptable obviously within typical limits of a kind but essentially it's maintained in a way not given to others. 

 

I was/ well am to an esxtent one of the nerds responsible for helping create the OC inferno and I mean that not in a bad way like the explosion of possibilities there not directly but for example I provided a lot of advice in Everquest

on the quest system and developing it and trying to make sure it worked through my own trial and error... I thought quests were the future of games and quit

Everquest when it became clear that the decxd dedicated quest system wasn't going to work. Now I've never been an official employee of these places

but yes in terms of playing them and doing stuff I've followed a lot of these games and attempted to learn what is attracting players

and obviously many of us like the game universe and characters but the true/deepest attyraction has been commuhnication. 

 

I've already explained what, IMO, Obsidian should do from a game perspective, and at any rate as to the other reasons people are attracted to these places I guess it's just up to peole to recognize that free speech is being

provided here and other people should get it and the argument isn't about whether people should get it although some might argue that, from my POV

It's recognizing that many peole don't have it. 

 

And then why they don't have it, and why these forces provide it, and honestly tons of other questions... that discussion should

just be getting started I guess right about now and we can move on from there more or less I believe. 

 

The free speech side is also recognizing that Orange County is actually run by a guy who stra traces his politics to the east of America

where law has traditionally resides, such as Tennessee and so on (I believe Donald Bren speaks with a southern accent actually, for ex)

 

Corporations, regular government people, nerds, non-nerds, just... the forces/combination of factors that provide good things

is mysterious and leaving parts out is bad... identity is good but failing to understand the big coalition thing is also bad IMO. 

 

I think this also spills into why I don't believe TOW will be a hit... I mean it'll sell... but it's retrograde... honestly all of the

Obsidian/Fallout kinda games are more or less too retro.... for super mainstream success. 

 

Like in Fallout 1 the enemy is the enclave... kinda…. but really the Enclave (remnants of the US govt) and the renegades in Fallout

are basically both minorities, they rely on each other I think... and what should happen is it should go forward. 

 

In fact, the brotherhood of steel runs more or less like a kind of government already, it's organized and institutionakl, so the enclave

should for it's own part recognize that this isn't wanton chaos, it's people that created some kind of space out of chaos...

 

It's more or less a replication of greek mythology etc and the idea that there is nothing and then there is a light of a kind... 

 

Is English not your first language?



#56
smjjames

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-Wall Of Text-

 

Is English not your first language?

 

 

I don't get the sense that english isn't their first language, though the formatting is strange, like they typed it up in notepad with word-wrap off and then copied and pasted or something.



#57
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Stream of consciousness writing makes me question the importance of free speech.  :closed:


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#58
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-Wall Of Text-

 

Is English not your first language?

 

 

I don't get the sense that english isn't their first language, though the formatting is strange, like they typed it up in notepad with word-wrap off and then copied and pasted or something.

 

 

But can you parse that?



#59
smjjames

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Anyways, I don't agree that WoWs success was due to being able to talk freely and openly on the internet because forums existed right from the very beginning and plenty of MMORPGs older than WoW had just as much free speech as most everybody else. WoW of course, had it's terms of service like everybody else. You can definetly act like a jerkass in WoW, theres nothing stopping you from doing so, but you can still get booted because it's being run by a private company, not the government.

 

 

 

 

 

-Wall Of Text-

 

Is English not your first language?

 

 

I don't get the sense that english isn't their first language, though the formatting is strange, like they typed it up in notepad with word-wrap off and then copied and pasted or something.

 

 

But can you parse that?

 

 

Parse? Not really, it's very rambly and stream of consciousness as hurlshot said.


Edited by smjjames, 05 March 2019 - 08:31 AM.


#60
Guard Dog

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There is a serious misunderstanding of what free speech actually means. In the US the First Amendment protects you from the GOVERNMENT. The GOVERNMENT can't shut you up. Or shut your newspaper down, or your internet forum. The GOVERNMENT can't lock you up or kill you over what you write or say. Even about it. Hell, ESPECIALLY about it. Remember there have been and still are places that very thing happens even today. Even in relatively free countries.

 

It does not protect the speaker, writer, editor, etc from scorn, ridicule, criticism, etc. It does not protect NFL players from NFL management, university students from stupid campus policy, you from your employer, or any of us here from the wrath of Fio or the Mods if you provoke it. 

 

It is not unlimited. You cannot incite violence or panic. You cannot publish lies (libel) or speak (slander) lies with the intention being malicious. Otherwise knock yourself out. But you might e told to STFU and you need to be cool with that. Because that is OK too.


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