Pathfinder Kingmaker is bigger then Deadfire

[Chilloutman]

dunno I have Octavia and she seem to be doing just fine as my main nuker/buffer

[Manveru123]

I have heavily thought about restarting as well. I made my main an Arcane Trickster which is annoyingly enough exactly what Octavia is also set up for and there's no pure arcane caster NPC. Linzi is nice and all but she's a Bard and the Eldritch Scion's not really made for being your main artillery and buffer/debuffer.

 

Lagging that one spell level behind needed to fulfill the Arcane Trickster requirement hurts a bit and outside of buying a sorcerer there's no real solution. I'm tempted to restart as Sorc. I also don't feel replacing Linzi with a custom made sorcerer would be much of a solution. Linzi's fine as a bard and a nice support caster.

 

Ideally I'd remove the rogue/wizard from the party but hey, that's my PC. Woops.

 

On the other hand now that I've found the Devourer of Metal Ekundayo is literally one-shotting enemies so what the hell...

 

Anyway, is it just me or are the prestige classes a bit underwhelming?

You don't really need a pure caster, as tempting as it sounds. Out of classes not covered by the NPCs, it's better to roll a Druid than a Sorc tbh. Linzi multiclasses into Eldritch Knight very nicely. Prestige classes are fine, but you need to treat them like normal classes with additional unlock requirements and nothing more.

 

dunno I have Octavia and she seem to be doing just fine as my main nuker/buffer

Sneak Attack Scorching Rays, boom boom!

[Chilloutman]

I like that prestige classes are not overpowerd actually (except of dragon disciple)

[Slotharingia]

Heads up to anyone near the end of the game: I'm at the beginning of what I think is the last chapter and cannot advance as every single quest is bugged to the point where it simply cannot be done, except the one involving Tristian, but even that leaves him in an infinite dialogue loop at the end and has a point where the load is so long it can cause the game to crash xD

[IndiraLightfoot]

Heads up to anyone near the end of the game: I'm at the beginning of what I think is the last chapter and cannot advance as every single quest is bugged to the point where it simply cannot be done, except the one involving Tristian, but even that leaves him in an infinite dialogue loop at the end and has a point where the load is so long it can cause the game to crash xD

Thank you for the warning! And yeah, it looks like they released this pretty brilliant gem a tad too early, methinks.

 

EDIT: It will be tough waiting for all this late-game stuff to be patched, though.

Hey! I have an idea. I can start over and over, which I already like, trying out different characters. I mean it, seriously.

Edited October 3, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[Tale]

You you guys talking chapter 4? I've heard more than a few complaints about gamestoppers there, though haven't read the specifics.

[Slotharingia]

You you guys talking chapter 4? I've heard more than a few complaints about gamestoppers there, though haven't read the specifics.

Yep. They released a fix for the problem with Amiri people were reporting, but I can't even start that quest as the person you are meant to talk to doesn't react to click. another quest involves Amiri but she's currently gone and a third one requires some people to spawn somewhere but they don't XD

[Chilloutman]

Good that I am playing on hard difficulity, getting to chapter 3 took me 50 hours of gameplay and I am lvl 8

[IndiraLightfoot]

Good that I am playing on hard difficulity, getting to chapter 3 took me 50 hours of gameplay and I am lvl 8

Now that's my kind of pace and way of a challenge! Good on you!!

[Gromnir]

 

 

Or you can buy alchemist fire flasks, but why do that when you can whine because the game is "too hard".

The game gives you a hint and a couple of flasks, it's your fault if you refuse to make use of them not the games.

Except that the flasks only do 1 damage if you're playing on anything above normal.

 

I'm not "whining", there are legitimate problems with the game but you're too blind to admit it.

Yes, that Pathfinder wasn't designed for crpgs.

 

Imagine my shock.

 

fixed

 

the game current plays like a kinda mash-up o' toee and bg.  not much depth, but it has breadth, and similar to toee, it is doing a fair attempt at replicating pnp rules in a crpg, with some notable fails.  kingmaker flanking is busted kinda the way attacks o' opportunity were utter borked in toee.  so same as almost all characters in toee were having reach weapons, kingmaker non-casters should always take at least one level o' vivisect alchemist or rogue to exploit flank.  pathfinder bug swarms is s'posed to take 2x damage from aoe damage spells (but don't) and the upscaled crpg versions is comical resilient.  xp awards is somehow wonky as we got two different games going with different main protagonists who have completed approx same number o' quests and killed same number o' foes, but one character is level 3 and the other is almost 5. etc.

 

kingmaker needs a couple major patches, but is typical o' crpg releases nowadays.  

 

oh, and kingmaker is no more hardcore than recent obsidian crpgs.  kingmaker is wonky.  busted arse mechanics which work fine in a pnp game but don't translate to crpgs is not hardcoreness.  first three levels o' a d20-based game result in a high amount o' dm fudging in pnp as those levels is extreme lethal due in part to rng and crits.  no live dm/gm in kingmaker, so instead you got reload. at the same time, the kingmaker adventure path were designed for a party o' four and there were no reload.  make work for a crpg with party o' six has not been smooth.  to put mildly, balance is current fubar in the crpg version and terrible balance is not hardcore so much as it is dumb. also, those first three or four levels o' d20 tend to feature a high dose o' player impotence, which is not so much hardcore as is a weird attribute o' the d&d rule system. why?  why make low-level failure a feature? when obsidian made a d&d game which started level one, they created a tutorial which would quick advance a player through the initial levels. obsidian were smart 'bout using d20. kingmaker is not so much hardcore as bad design and predictable fail o' pnp-crpg translation.  if game sudden gets easier after level 4 or 5, that ain't hardcore, it's stoopid.  etc.

 

kingmaker is benefiting a fair bit from bg and toee nostalgia.  nothing wrong with that.  even so, much oh what is bad 'bout kingmaker is getting reimagined as positive for no other reason than the same dumbness were part o' older crpgs, particular d&d crpgs.

 

am hopeful owlcat gets a second shot at a pathfinder adventure path.  the game does suffer from the inherent limitations o' trying to translate pnp rules to with literal dozens o' seeming pointless spells and feats n' such and wonky implementation foibles such as flanking.  even so, am thinking there is much potential for another pathfinder adventure even though we would personal rather see original material as we have already played though most pathfinder ap.  at the moment, kingmaker is a bit o' a hot mess-- long on potential but short on execution.  'course we felt same way 'bout toee and bg1.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps to address another repeated observation in this thread, am gonna suggest purple prose weren't deadfire's big writing problem.  excess o' narration and exposition were a problem.  too much o' obsidian explaining what were happening with gods and events beyond what were observable to the player via in-game encounters and brief visual cutscenes. show, don't tell. first rule. if all deadfire narration were written in a style akin to a journalist as 'posed to a creative writing undergrad, such narration would not have sudden improved.  woulda' been worse. 

Edited October 3, 2018 by Gromnir

[majestic]

Heh. That hotfix... I now have two Amiris available. It's the same NPC so it doesn't matter who I take with me but the game doesn't recognize that she's in my party when dealing with areas where she has quests.

 

I went to the Hodag lair for her companion quest and she's standing there waiting. I can talk to her while she's in my party then I can party manage her in and out as much as I'd like, the quest trigger's broken.

 

Oh and yeah, taking both of them doesn't work, the copy of her disappears immediately and doesn't respond to clicks. She can still be beaten by the Hodag tho.

 

Hum...

[ShadySands]

Same problem with the twin Amiris

[Slotharingia]

Heh. That hotfix... I now have two Amiris available. It's the same NPC so it doesn't matter who I take with me but the game doesn't recognize that she's in my party when dealing with areas where she has quests.

 

I went to the Hodag lair for her companion quest and she's standing there waiting. I can talk to her while she's in my party then I can party manage her in and out as much as I'd like, the quest trigger's broken.

 

Oh and yeah, taking both of them doesn't work, the copy of her disappears immediately and doesn't respond to clicks. She can still be beaten by the Hodag tho.

 

Hum...

 

Regongar and Octavia are hanging in the Technic League camp too if I go back there, with them on my team. And by the Old Sycamore there are some radishes, which if I try to pick them a kobold starts a convo with me. The thing is though, the kolbolds there are all dead xD The game is so bugged at this point I'm a bit at a loss for words.

 

Good that I am playing on hard difficulity, getting to chapter 3 took me 50 hours of gameplay and I am lvl 8

Well I'm playing on easy and I have 104 hrs.

[Chilloutman]

Sounds like I should disable autoupdates as soon as I got home on log in to steam xD

[Tale]

All disabling auto-updates does is make it so it waits to update when you launch the game. Steam does not like people playing without updates.

[Chilloutman]

All disabling auto-updates does is make it so it waits to update when you launch the game. Steam does not like people playing without updates.

 

you sure? I think I was able to disable autoupdates for my KOTOR II

[ShadySands]

The patch before the newest had issues too but I'd rather have two Amiris than a blank spell selection page. I didn't actually have two on my screen though just two in the party window.

 

I really want to set this aside until some DLC comes out but I'm slightly hooked and want to just keep going.

[IndiraLightfoot]

All disabling auto-updates does is make it so it waits to update when you launch the game. Steam does not like people playing without updates.

You can set updates on an impossible timer, though. That still works.

Edited October 4, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[Vitalis]

 

Yes, that Pathfinder wasn't designed for you to play with upscaled enemies.

Imagine my shock.

 

Then how is that my fault?

Because you are playing on a difficulty labeled Unfair and complaining that it is indeed Unfair. If you want a challenge with the combat, then you have it and you need to figure out how to overcome it.

 

That the tabletop was never balanced around such a difficulty has little to do with it; since throwing a swarm at a level 2 party with little to no way of dealing with them is a death sentence in the tabletop as well.

[Volourn]

L0L Wererats L0L

 

I beat them but hilarious that I faced them AFTER the stagstiff and they were more challenging despite there only being 3 of them.  Immune to magic missles? COME ON.

 

Largely squashed them in the end because of hold person.

 

Anyone who hates KM or prefers  PE is not a TRUE RPG fan.

 

There, I said it.

[IndiraLightfoot]

Owlcat Studios official word on difficulty after the initial complaints:

 

The game difficulty: Vision of the studio.

 

Hail to the Kings and Queens!
Lately, we’ve received a lot of questions from you regarding game difficulty. Our bad – we should have realized sooner that our view on the matter may differ significantly from what some of you are used to. A lot of games tend to use the “normal difficulty” label for their casual mode which requires minimal input from the player. Knowing this, many players choose “hard” or higher by default every time they start a new game just to make their experience at least a little challenging. Well, this isn’t quite how things work in Pathfinder: Kingmaker.
We decided to be honest with our players from the start, so in our game “normal” really is what you’d expect from “normal”: a bit of challenge and a fair amount of Pathfinder experience. It is a mode that you can play on and not feel that the game is playing itself for you. Still, it is also a good choice for those getting their first taste of the game, as well as for those who are yet not familiar with the Pathfinder system but would like to dig in. The “hard” mode is literally hard – expect many tries, a lot of saving and loading, get ready to feel anger rise in your chest as your persistence is put to the test. The game will require you to think long and hard on your moves and to use potions, scrolls, spells and abilities wisely. You’ll have to learn about your foes’ weaknesses and use them. And as for the “unfair” mode – well, enough said, it IS unfair! It is for the most hardcore of gamers, for those who enjoy a real freakin’ challenge. Do not expect it to be just hard. Expect it to be soul-crushing. “Story mode” is for those who enjoy the game world and the storyline more than they do fighting, tactics and min-maxing.
So, please, do not rush to choose the hardest difficulty level right at the start. We expect you to be the wise and provident ruler of the Stolen Lands. Measure your skill, have a proper taste of the game first, and whenever you’re ready – feel free to switch to a more challenging level. Or an easier one, if that’s what rocks your boat. And if the existing difficulty levels are not enough, remember you can always tailor the rules to your individual taste in the options menu. We are also currently working on even more deep and detailed difficulty settings to make sure you can set the gameplay to your liking.
Nevertheless, we really appreciate your comments about certain unbalanced encounters. We're not planning to lower the whole difficulty level of the game, but we constantly note all your requests and are doing our best to fix all the problems and adjust the balance (some of them are already fixed - check out the Hotfix letters). Thank you!

[Tigranes]

I haven't played yet so I don't know how it pans out in practice, but in terms of the principle - bravo.

 

'Normal' shouldn't mean "mash some random buttons, still win the battle", like it does in so many RPGs.

[InsaneCommander]

Do you need a rogue in your party (for taps or whatever). Or can Linzi handle anything related?

[Vitalis]

Do you need a rogue in your party (for taps or whatever). Or can Linzi handle anything related?

She's a bard so she has trickery to give her a +4 regardless of the skill and her dexterity.

Edited October 4, 2018 by Vitalis

[Tale]

And it turns out the boss fights are complete nonse. There goes my enjoyment of the game.

 

Had to cheese the stag lord fight. There was one guy in it who did 1d10+17. And enough attack bonus to hit my Half-Plate + 1, tower shield specialist on a 10. Did I say 1 guy? Make that two. Two other similarly strong guys (the only one of which I checked could hit the tank at an 11 and the last is titular Stag Lord). Then about 3 or 4 regular enemies. Make sure you don't aggro any of the other bandits in the camp, if you pull in one group, you could bring 9 bandits on your head. They can mow you down themselves.

 

I did beat the fight. Using MMO tactics of pulling individual guys and testing their group aggro ranges. And also savescumming to get an Owlbear to tank for me, which it did with no problem.

 

On Normal, this battle did not leave me with the satisfaction of a battle hard won. A bunch of the groups around the boss battle area (which I ended up leaving alive) have enemies in it who are just as tough as those boss guys. I savescummed several times because they mowed my Valerie down before I could kill them. I was making camps in the middle of the enemy camp while a bunch of enemies still lived in it. Just to get the healing I needed to get back in the fight.

 

It felt like I was a good 2 levels or more short of being supposed to fight that. But I'd done every single quest available.

 

I've seen talk about how it's justified that they're giving +17! bonuses to the enemies because we're a 6 member party instead of a 4 and players are smarter than the computer. But they're also doubling and tripling the numbers of enemies.