Pathfinder Kingmaker is bigger then Deadfire

[jww]

The walking speed is fine as long as you aren't overpacked with junk.

 

 

No, it absolutely is not. And I'm talking about when I'm unencumbered.

[Manveru123]

The walking speed is the same as in every classic game of this kind. There was no "fast mode" before Pillars. Don't be spoiled.

 

Then again whose brilliant idea it was to make walk speed a crawl during the rain!?

[majestic]

Then again whose brilliant idea it was to make walk speed a crawl during the rain!?

 

I'm pretty sure those are supposed to be thunderstorms, not just rain. Be glad they didn't include the wind's ability to knock your characters prone.

[Epaminondas]

I tend to dislike simulation taken too far. Wind buffeting and decreasing walking speed due to storms are a nuisance.

 

What's worse, and I don't know if I inadvertently did this or not, but I can't seem to get Octavia to stop using her acid cantrip. To be clear, I've only leveled and used her as a rogue because my character is a mage (and a much better one than she could hope to be) and what I want is to exploit the games sneak attack from any direction even though the enemy isn't technically flanked feature. The ability to have two people fighting the same creature from any direction and still get flanking and sneak attacks is just plain awesome! Woot. I know it works against my party also, but not as much as it works for it!

[jww]

The walking speed is the same as in every classic game of this kind. There was no "fast mode" before Pillars. Don't be spoiled.

 

I just tested it against BG and NWN, both of which are games that I've played far more than Pillars. Kingmaker was noticeably slower, when viewed at similar scale. Obviously if you zoom way out on BGEE so that it's showing 4 times the amount of area that Kingmaker can show, then it'll seem like you're walking slower, but it's just because you're walking a farther distance.

 

Part of the problem might be that Kingmaker makes your character slow way down whenever you start moving or change directions. Without that, it might be bearable.

[ShadySands]

Agreed on the slow walking speed. I ended up grabbing a mod from the Nexus to speed it up.

[Epaminondas]

Walking speed? Good God! how the hell did you people survive in games of yore? Whatever. I'm going to turn into a pumpkin soon. It's just a trivial think considering the other issues at hand. ...And even with those iddues, I'd still recommend this game. As someone I've seen on this forum would say, Great Fun!

[ShadySands]

Boots of Speed

[Manveru123]

I tend to dislike simulation taken too far. Wind buffeting and decreasing walking speed due to storms are a nuisance.

 

What's worse, and I don't know if I inadvertently did this or not, but I can't seem to get Octavia to stop using her acid cantrip. To be clear, I've only leveled and used her as a rogue because my character is a mage (and a much better one than she could hope to be) and what I want is to exploit the games sneak attack from any direction even though the enemy isn't technically flanked feature. The ability to have two people fighting the same creature from any direction and still get flanking and sneak attacks is just plain awesome! Woot. I know it works against my party also, but not as much as it works for it!

Spells can sneak attack too. The reason she prefers the cantrip is that her go-to build is an Arcane Trickster. She does most of her damage with Ray spells. Her Acid Splash targets Touch AC which is generally easier to hit than normal AC. This is important because as a caster her BAB is low.

 

 

The walking speed is the same as in every classic game of this kind. There was no "fast mode" before Pillars. Don't be spoiled.

 

I just tested it against BG and NWN, both of which are games that I've played far more than Pillars. Kingmaker was noticeably slower, when viewed at similar scale. Obviously if you zoom way out on BGEE so that it's showing 4 times the amount of area that Kingmaker can show, then it'll seem like you're walking slower, but it's just because you're walking a farther distance.

 

Part of the problem might be that Kingmaker makes your character slow way down whenever you start moving or change directions. Without that, it might be bearable.

 

Strange, I did not get that impression. I do think it's kinda meh that I occasionally alt+tab while my characters are walking somewhere..

[Mamoulian War]

 

Then again whose brilliant idea it was to make walk speed a crawl during the rain!?

I'm pretty sure those are supposed to be thunderstorms, not just rain. Be glad they didn't include the wind's ability to knock your characters prone.

I am maybe very strange person, but I would really love to see that mechanic in PF CRPG

[Epaminondas]

 

What's worse, and I don't know if I inadvertently did this or not, but I can't seem to get Octavia to stop using her acid cantrip. To be clear, I've only leveled and used her as a rogue because my character is a mage (and a much better one than she could hope to be) and what I want is to exploit the games sneak attack from any direction even though the enemy isn't technically flanked feature. The ability to have two people fighting the same creature from any direction and still get flanking and sneak attacks is just plain awesome! Woot. I know it works against my party also, but not as much as it works for it!

Spells can sneak attack too. The reason she prefers the cantrip is that her go-to build is an Arcane Trickster. She does most of her damage with Ray spells. Her Acid Splash targets Touch AC which is generally easier to hit than normal AC. This is important because as a caster her BAB is low.

 

Hmm, the real reason she's in the party is to be my rogue. So, even specializing in ranged touch attacks, it just seems weird that with one level of wizard and five levels of rogue with some truly brutal missile sneak attacks, her best & most damaging potential comes from a cantrip sneak attack? I'll go over the numbers and see how often she attacks and hits with acid splash and how much damage over a period of time and then do the same for her missile attacks. At any rate, I appreciate the heads up, Manveru.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Epaminondas

[Vitalis]

 

 

What's worse, and I don't know if I inadvertently did this or not, but I can't seem to get Octavia to stop using her acid cantrip. To be clear, I've only leveled and used her as a rogue because my character is a mage (and a much better one than she could hope to be) and what I want is to exploit the games sneak attack from any direction even though the enemy isn't technically flanked feature. The ability to have two people fighting the same creature from any direction and still get flanking and sneak attacks is just plain awesome! Woot. I know it works against my party also, but not as much as it works for it!

Spells can sneak attack too. The reason she prefers the cantrip is that her go-to build is an Arcane Trickster. She does most of her damage with Ray spells. Her Acid Splash targets Touch AC which is generally easier to hit than normal AC. This is important because as a caster her BAB is low.

Hmm, the real reason she's in the party is to be my rogue. So, even specializing in ranged touch attacks, it just seems weird that with one level of wizard and five levels of rogue with some truly brutal missile sneak attacks, her best & most damaging potential comes from a cantrip sneak attack? I'll go over the numbers and see how often she attacks and hits with acid splash and how much damage over a period of time and then do the same for her missile attacks. At any rate, I appreciate the heads up, Manveru.

If you right click an ability on the characters bar it will auto attack with that ability. If that's the case you will see a gold bar that moves in a clockwise manner around the ability.

Edited October 19, 2018 by Vitalis

[Manveru123]

 

 

What's worse, and I don't know if I inadvertently did this or not, but I can't seem to get Octavia to stop using her acid cantrip. To be clear, I've only leveled and used her as a rogue because my character is a mage (and a much better one than she could hope to be) and what I want is to exploit the games sneak attack from any direction even though the enemy isn't technically flanked feature. The ability to have two people fighting the same creature from any direction and still get flanking and sneak attacks is just plain awesome! Woot. I know it works against my party also, but not as much as it works for it!

Spells can sneak attack too. The reason she prefers the cantrip is that her go-to build is an Arcane Trickster. She does most of her damage with Ray spells. Her Acid Splash targets Touch AC which is generally easier to hit than normal AC. This is important because as a caster her BAB is low.

 

Hmm, the real reason she's in the party is to be my rogue. So, even specializing in ranged touch attacks, it just seems weird that with one level of wizard and five levels of rogue with some truly brutal missile sneak attacks, her best & most damaging potential comes from a cantrip sneak attack? I'll go over the numbers and see how often she attacks and hits with acid splash and how much damage over a period of time and then do the same for her missile attacks. At any rate, I appreciate the heads up, Manveru.

 

I have never tried building her as a Rogue, her stat spread just screams "arcane trickster". Especially since Rogues are not very good archers.

[Epaminondas]

I wouldn't mind having her be an arcane trickster if I needed any amount of arcane backup at all. The only thing I need her to do, and I need her to do it well, is allow me to unlock stuff and disarm traps. An arcane trickster should, if I remember pathfinder right, be a bit behind the rogue on those skills until he or she can augment them with magic. I know thieving skills aren't really even all that necessary in the CRPG, but I simply loathe missing content. So, she's my rogue because that's what I want her to be. She's too squishy to be on the line. Her dex is high. Her intel is high. Rogues can backstab at range. When she gets a sneak attack, she does a huge amount of damage and, unlike the PnP game, she can do that regardless of positioning as long as there's someone else attacking. I don't doubt your bona fides. I actually appreciate the conversation. It's just that however crazy my party build is, it's doing the job. I didn't even make it optimal. Now, to be fair, I'm only just now going into the lower level of the

dwarven hold turned troll hideout

. So, I might rue the rogue eventually. No end of arcane casters available, though. The arcane trickster loses out on BAB and immediate skills, but can make up for the progression later. I know a lot of people think rogues suck and whatnot, but I'm going for an intel based rogue anyway.

[Manveru123]

All you need to do to unlock stuff and disarm traps is a character with high Trickery and Dex. It can be any character at all, no one is innately worse or better at it. You probably got the +5 Trickery gloves already too.

[IndiraLightfoot]

The current state of the game?

The majority of people over at other forums seem to agree with this, a post, courtesy of PowerSworder:

"I love making new characters and min/maxing with the ruleset, but having to plod through that tutorial is a chore. 

I really enjoyed the combat... but some of the bugs have been very annoying, like finesse training stopping working for dual-wield.

But by far the most aggravating thing about the game is the kingdom management. Being forced to waste 2 weeks with your main character every time you want to level up an advisor is probably my biggest gripe. If they ditched that mechanic alone, most of my problems with the kingdom management would disappear.

1) Too strict time limits on... everything.
2) Being unable to deal with opportunities and problems because you're "trapped" training an advisor.
3) Not having enough time to train up all your advisors to the correct levels, which means the increasingly harder DC checks become impossible to meet.

I've NEVER savescummed a game as much as I have this one, just trying to deal with all the crap that gets thrown at you in kingdom management. It absolutely sucks all fun out of that part of the game.

As I progressed through the acts, it was quite clear how many gamebreaking bugs had slipped through. I don't necessarily blame the QA team for that, they probably reported all the bugs they encountered... "

I've mostly played other games after two restarts of this game, which I really love, Act 1, at least, but I'm literally scared of my taking on the rest, Act 2 and Kingdom management, will just slowly frustrate me and wring all the fun out of the game. Those nasty lime limits, and weeks spent on boring kingdom stuff, which in itself seems to be an RNG fiesta . I'd preferred a more lighthearted kingdom managing, and in the shape of something that  never interferes with my party's urge to adventure.

[majestic]

60 to 90 days long projects are also really awesome.

 

Sending your treasurer or high priest away for three months is like staring down Dirty Harry's gun while he says WELL DO YA, PUNK?

 

Except the game's gun has unlimited ammo.

[Slotharingia]

That's just auto-kingdom and the invincible mode. I'm more asking about reports I read where people would get rather suddenly destroyed or had no idea how to progress to avoid destruction.

 

I'd like to be able to play it without turning on the cheat mode to win.

Late to the party, but no this is not fixed.

 

I pushed on to past the Pitax chapter in spite of the game deadlocking me on Worried no matter what I did or how much I save scummed to beat the RNG. At that point in the game, I started getting spammed with 3 Pitax Assassin problems at a time, and a few months later, pop ups insisting I was losing a war I'd won a long time ago. This is after the latest hotfix that was meant to solve Pitax issues. Kingdom went from worried to troubled. I've now given up on it ... again. This is with it set to "Easy". There's another bug that makes it impossible to upgrade certain advisers, and at that point you start getting DC 38 problems - which I could actually win as my advisers are all level 5-10, but it's still not good enough to beat the invisible debuffs. I do have invincible kingdom on, but it's just not satisfying to finish a game effectively with cheat mode enabled after investing such an unholy amount of time on trying to do it properly.

 

It's imo terrible game design to create a massive part of the game as a cryptic gambling fest where even if you play how it tells you to, you ultimately fail and the only option to not get a gameoever is to use a cheat setting.

Edited October 20, 2018 by Slotharingia

[neotemplar]

It may be bigger. I don't know, because I had to restart 4 times, doing all quests again and again, and still in Act 4 I got a critical bug again.

 

That's enough for me.

 

After this nightmare I see how polished Deadfire was from the very release.

 

PF has some strong potential, I enjoyed it, but it will never match PoE.

[Marceror]

It may be bigger. I don't know, because I had to restart 4 times, doing all quests again and again, and still in Act 4 I got a critical bug again.

 

That's enough for me.

 

After this nightmare I see how polished Deadfire was from the very release.

 

PF has some strong potential, I enjoyed it, but it will never match PoE.

 

It's posts like this that caused me to put it on the shelf immediately after completing Act I. I do not have enough free time or patience at this point in my life to waste it in such a way. I'll come back to this game in a few months, if, and only if, they get it to an acceptably stable state.

 

Even though I would rather be playing that version of PF:KM right now, I'm happy to be giving a much more stabled PoE II an initial playthrough. I did back the friggin' game after all, so I should absolutely play it. I just haven't been playing CRPGs for the last couple of years....

[IndiraLightfoot]

@Marceror: Yeah, this is where I am at as well. It's a pity and extremely frustrating that Act 2 and the following acts aren't enough of a (fun) game when I really love what the Pathfinder system has to offer, and they have implemented lots of great features, and they hadn't scrimped on the difficulty either. Hopefully, it will be a gem in like 3 months.

Edited October 20, 2018 by IndiraLightfoot

[Volourn]

 "I know thieving skills aren't really even all that necessary in the CRPG"

 

Absolutely needed? Nah. But, the good ones they are highly valuable. Like this one.

 

 

Anyways, I largely agree about the kingdome management. For me, it just takes away from the best part of the game - the adventuring. There are good parts to it but the weaknesses are beyond annoying.

 

 

btw, My favorite spell is dimension door. I never used it in the IE games but it was a lifesaver in a few situations for me in KM. *cough* barbarian camp *cough*

 

P.S. It is beautiful when  certain monsters' energy/level/ability drain goes right through death ward.

 

Still, bugs and all, this game is one of the best RPGs ever.

[majestic]

Considering that everything the game saves is stored inside the savegames as JSON files and it's really easy editing them I'm very tempted to... toy around with the kingdom management. Mostly by setting running event timers to 1 day. It's not it helps with the actual game... much. It still leaves these annoying do diddle squat for 14 days parts. Meh.

[InsaneCommander]

Considering that everything the game saves is stored inside the savegames as JSON files and it's really easy editing them I'm very tempted to... toy around with the kingdom management. Mostly by setting running event timers to 1 day. It's not it helps with the actual game... much. It still leaves these annoying do diddle squat for 14 days parts. Meh.

 

I hope they change this part of the game. I'm waiting at least a month anyway.

[Agiel]

@Marceror: Yeah, this is where I am at as well. It's a pity and extremely frustrating that Act 2 and the following acts aren't enough of a (fun) game when I really love what the Pathfinder system has to offer, and they have implemented lots of great features, and they hadn't scrimped on the difficulty either. Hopefully, it will be a gem in like 3 months.

 

I suppose it wouldn't be a game from Russia (or other former SSR) if it wasn't big in both ambition and jankiness on release. On the other hand I have to commend many of the quality of life improvements Owlcat has made on the cRPG formula without compromising on, well, what others might consider the "uncompromising" elements of the genre like encumbrance or not having arrows pointing to where you need to go to advance a quest.

Edited October 21, 2018 by Agiel