Badmojo

I kind of agree, its is fun to do. It might be best in the stronghold though.

The multiple definitions of mature is not exclusive of each other. You can have deep story, philosophical debates, racism, sexism, class warefare, drugs, etc in, right besides, sex and violence. The witcher 2 pulled it off, however looking at some forms of manga/anime, and they pull it off really well. Akira, ghost in the shell, neon genesis evangaline, Perfect Blue, etc One thing I liked was the freedom your character had in fallout 2, you could actually sleep with the mob boss's wife, the farmers daughter (forced shotgun wedding), offer it as an alternative payment method the wife could pay your character to help free her husband from jail, hell even become a porn star. Sure, that last one may seem silly, but I loved that we had the option of doing that. And that is the point, I want options like this to show up again. Not just about sex, but about any mature things in the game. At the end of the game, I want to feel that PE earned that mature in the title. I do not want to scratch my head at the end and wonder why it has an M when it is clearly would be a teen rating or below, which I feel most modern mature games are and just have the M slapped on as a PR stunt to sell the game when its really a T game. One point, this game will not have an ESRB nanny rating board looking over it, this is the time to release your creative freedom and push the envelope, not play it safe, because I think the vast majority DO NOT want a safe game. They want a FUN game and a game they will be talking about years to come.

First, Reading one of the KS post, it seems necromancy is in the game. YES! Ok, so necromancy is in. I am really glad, I hope it is really cool and unique. With that said, it was also mentioned that there was no resurrection magic. I really do not have a problem with that, however I do think they are missing a golden opportunity to have it, but in a unique way that makes it forbidden in every kingdom. I have been a fan of full metal alchemist rule of "to gain something, you have to give something of equal value" for its alchemy magic system. For bringing someone back, it should be the same. This is something no (good) priest can do, only a very few high level necromancers who keep this secret to themselves. Even those who know are very reluctant to do this, because to bring someone back to life would require a sacrifice of someone of the same level as the dead character. However, even if they pay the price, there is always a negative affect that follows the resurrected person back. Sometimes they come back...wrong, others its an outside affect. Those who try to bring someone back without the sacrifice still end up paying. Somewhere, someone the character knows will die randomly, the persons eyes burn out of their body, their flesh turns mummified, and the image of the resurrected is branded on the body so those who know about the ritual, will know who is responsible and the families/friends will come looking for the person) Examples - the character comes back as an undead being (zombie, ghoul, vampire...etc) - The character comes back, but not alone, someone the character killed earlier comes back as well (perhaps as a monster) - the character comes back, however, any time the character stops too long at a place, zombies/skeletons/undead start to appear - the character has something unearthly about them and gets negatives to conversations with the living, but bonuses for those with the dead. - etc. Like I said, its not a big deal, but I thought Resurrection could be in, but made interesting and this gives a lot of seed stories in the game.

I actually like vampires, I just hate what twilight has done to them. Remember when vampires were cool scary monsters, now they are immortal emo kids who cry about their existence. Bah. I actually do not think vampires should have a fixed type. Instead there are many different beings that would fall under the name vampire(or whatever name they want to call it). The only general requirement is that mortals get turned into another creature that must live by stealing the life/substance of others and most either live really long or is immortal. Since all vampiric beings must feed on the living, I will say that they should be rare because they are universally hunted down. Part of the fun could be reading the lore about the different types of vampire beings. I think this would allow a lot more flexibility in creating vampires and not sticking with the sterotype vampire. Examples of different vampiric beings types: Vampires created through magic vampires created through disease vampirism created through dark science vamipires created through curse vampiric entity created by symbiotic relationship with another being (like the body is infested with insects that feed on blood, the insects secrete a substance that keeps the body alive/reanimated) Spirit vampires A natural race of vampires that feed on the blood of other races etc... One of the most interesting and horrifying vampire types I ran across was the whamphir in the necroscope series, with their monsterous urges, powers, and fleshcrafting (shudder), white wolf created a version called the tzimisce. They were truly alien like monsters in the truest sense. I would like to see something unique like them.

I think the beating this dead horse over and over and over again is proof enough, try and prove its not. Out of all the crazy stuff in PST, I really find it unbelievable that, the womens armour is the one thing that people noticed. Really? I am calling BS on it, it is just a convinent excuse to push an agenda that has shown up on every other freaking board on the internet lately. It IS political correctness being shoved down our throats.

Another circle... I think the "white knights" agreed pages ago on the Witcher being a rather good game (if it wasn't for the silly cards in Witcher 1), because the Witcher does NOT put Triss into a chainmail bikini and lets every female NPC run around like a harlot. As I said long ago, I like sexism, racism, un-PC things in a game if it's actually part of the setting and storyline and helps the immersion. Triss is one of the strongest and most memorable female characters from a game I know. Why don't you guys just get that this isn't a fight for female liberation and turning every game into a Bioware-like "everyone's equal and bi and whatnot" setting, but simply a discussion about ridiculous outfits and sexism that isn't in the storyline but in the art design that caters to the dumbest sort of male virgins that would also shout "Green shirt girl, go shirtless" in a livestream chat? Edit: Oh, and by the way, I think Disney is much much worse than any of those mature examples, Game of Thrones or whatever. The latter feature very strong female characters, while Disney usually feeds the kids with female rolemodels I want to vomit on. Your words are contradictory, you say you are not fighting for women injustice, but then call men who like this stuff dumb male virgins. No, this is just a stepping stone, like with the boob armour. Obsidian really screwed up by caving in, now the white knights smell weakness and are hammering the forum again and again (resurrecting the same women vs...whatever threads again and again and again, BS) asking for more and more. Read this whole thread again, its NOT just the art the WK are asking for.

False dichotomy. You can be mature while avoiding sexism. The two aren't mutually exclusive. Not insulting women doesn't turn something into banal Disney or "standard channel" fare. Something that is sexist might yet in other ways be mature, but I would argue that the sexism itself is actually immature. War and Peace would not have been more "mature" had Tolstoy lovingly dwelled for paragraph after paragraph on the nether regions of his countess and princess characters. Quite the opposite, I should say. Bah, sexist is right up there with probable cause. ANYTHING can be considered sexist depending on who you ask. Opening a door for a women is sexist, NOT opening a door for a women is sexist. Complimenting a women appearance is sexist, asking on a date is sexist, looking at a women is sexist, talking about women is sexist..etc. Drawing women in sexy clothes is sexist, drawing women in common womens clothes is sexist, drawing women at all is sexist, Its impossible NOT to be sexist from somebodies point of view. Avoiding mature topics and real world situations to appease the PC crowd is not mature at all.

*sigh* this thread is nothing but a toxic pit that is distracting from actual game discussion and should have been moved to another forum a while back, because it is preventing actual real game discussion to commence.. Oh well, when in rome. I think this push for political correctness by white knights and femenists are going to make the game less fun. When I play a game I do not want real world politics in it at all. I want to have FUN, I do not want to play some political correct groups wet dream game, I want to play a game where politics are thrown out the window. It is why I LOVE cd projekt, they do not care about politics, they create games that THEY want to play and is fun. The same group trying to shove there ideology here also tried to shove it down CDP's forums as well when the witcher 2 was created. I am so glad they did not listen and shudder at what the game would have been like if they did. Brian Fargo said it pretty good, (I am paraphrasing) its a mature game, when created a mature game, it should be like going to HBO/cinemax/showtime (dexter, game of thrones, the wire, the sapronos, rome..etc), NOT some disney or standard channel PC stuff.

Ok, I cannot tell you how sick to death I am of seeing this same threads popup all over the internet boards by a very small group of people pushing their PC views about women EVERYWHERE online. This thread should be locked because nothing good is coming out except circle jerk. Sorry, but gonna vent a little. Lets be honest, the group who wants PC women will NEVER BE HAPPY no matter what changes are made. Whatever changes are made will never be enough, sure, they are praising the changes to the boob armour, but what about the next women who is showing too much skin? Or the next women who is too pretty? Or the next women who have boobs above an A cup? or the next women who is *shock* a maid and not the same status of a captain? or the next women...etc. And they WILL complain. I really am saddened at how quickly obsidian buckeled (well, you did obsidian), under pressure from such a very small vocal group. I personally put money in to get away from restrictions and forced Political correctness in games, if I wanted that I would have stuck with every other game out there now. Ok, lets see, the boob armour. While I agree that it was a *little* over done, it wasn't really bad. Now he..oh sorry, she, looks like a guy in drag at best. The new armour just sucks the feminine features out of the character so she seems like a he now. However, I think that is what some group wants, unisex and no sex differences at all. Is this what all women in armour are going to look like? males with makeup? Not exactly the game I want to play. Still, I blame using the europeon ugly mideval armour design, since its a new world they should have created something unique, something that could highlight the female and male form so it is clear they are different and there is NOTHING wrong with making armour attractive in a game. Now, lets talk about sexiness/attractivness. Yes, its not universal, but lets be real. The majority have a basic agreement about certain ideas of beauty. Sorry if its not PC, but its the truth. People are WIRED to like certain things. I like attractive/sexy women, a lot of people (not just guys) do. Trying to say its wrong or that its sexist is just stupid. It is no different than a gay person being wired to like the same sex, you would not call that wrong/sexist would you...oh, but its different because they are gay? No? even if its lesbians who like sexy women? but..but.. sorry, we like what we like and there is nothing wrong or shameful about it. Trying to force PC views on other people is no different than the church going after people to SAVE their souls from damnation because they do not believe what they believe. No thank you. ok, got a little off topic there, but my point is, there is nothing wrong with having attractive or sexy characters in the game. It is a FANTASY game, I do not want to go and see ugly women, unisex women, women covered head to toe not showing any skin like some mid eastern country, no do I want to see both sexes treated exactly the same like some disney/pixar PC movie. male and female are different from the day they are born, pretending there is no difference is silly. discrimination in the game - I do want discrimination in the game, for this thread I am focusing on discrimination by sex. however I do NOT want PC ok discrimination. Like for example, the only case of discrimination just happens to be a matriarch society where men are considered inferior. This is the BS PC ok discrimination I cannot stand. Its trying to have it both ways, trying to go 'see! we are such a visionary! we showed discrimination by having men discrimated against!'...actually no, all you showed is that you are scared to tackle the issue by having women showed discriminated against and chickened out by having men the victims to apease the PC crowd. Let me be clear, that was just an example and was the ONLY discrimination in the game. Having a matriarcal society is fine, but it should be small/rare and in most cases it should be women discriminated against. With that said I am kind of worried that obsidians might try to pull the ok PC discrimination like that with the goddess of war. Like only having women warriors or something. Hope not, but who knows. What? Obsidian would not do that? Um *points to boob armour change*. again, who knows? The question, why include discrimnation like this in the game? One is for atmosphere, it is more believable than the disney games where everybody gets along just dandy. Secondly, its these injustices that the players (if they are good) can try and change for the better(or evil, make it worse). This is the type of conflict that those who want to do something besides just fight monsters might love to do. Realism - What does that even mean in a game? Some people want to force eating, sleeping, carrying wounds and not heal for weeks, only walking, everything having weight to carry, armour degradation, ..etc. That may be real, but I want none of that type of realism at all, that is unfun for me. The same with people, I prefer to interact with attractive people, not all, but a high percentage. Obviously, an old person should be old, the grizzled warrior should be...well...grizzled. However, I do expect to run into attractive and dare I even say it? Sexy women (or men if you are into that). Why? BECAUSE ITS A FANTASY GAME! You read any fantasy books? They have sexy women/men in them all the time and it is NOT just for horny teenagers. Adults like this stuff too, trying to pretend its imature is like saying playing games is for kids. People like what they like. Ok, feel better, would write more but its late. I still say the op needs to move this thread (and all other related and the ones that KEEP POPPING UP BY SOME GROUPS) to the off topic forum because nothing good is coming from this thread and it is just going to dominate this forum and divide the community.

This thread is producing nothing useful, only arguments going back and forth. I suggest closing it mods.

Late to the party. Ok first, necromancy is in, YEA! XP reward by quest only. er, not sure, it has pros and cons. I like the idea, but not getting any xp for anything except the quest kind of takes away some of the fun. Still, it worked for bloodlines, but that was a very different type of game. Personally I think that there should be some type of reward/incentive to motivate you, but its not a deal killer. The stamina/health...hmmm, lets just call stamina shield energy so its easier to understand. I have no probme with having a regenerating shield, what I DO have a problem is there is no magic/medicine that can heal, and the ONLY way to heal your health is to rest. Which from what I read, there will be *safe* resting areas (probably inns, campsites..etc) and non safe rest areas. I am not really happy with this, It sounds like your going to have to drag your party to these safe areas or all the way back to your inn/home just to heal, otherwise you will have to take a chance on these unsafe resting areas, in which if you fight a random encounter, you will not even get any XP for. I just cannot wrap my head around there being no healing in the game, no magic? No priest to healing gods? No medicine? noda? Honestly, this sounds like its going to be a pain and suck the fun right out. I HATE having to rest in games, it breaks up the pace, now we will have mandatory resting. This will pretty much kill deep exploring for me, do I explore an area and maybe find some loot, but risk getting somebody hurt that I HAVE to drag back to a safe area so the bastard can heal by magically sleeping (time sink) it off? Oh, lets not forget respawning monsters I get to fight again for NO xp. It might not be that bad at first, but after a couple of dozen times, I am sure I will be ready to turn PE off and play something that doesn't make me want to smash the computer in. The main question should be, is this fun? Going back and forth to rest/heal, does it feel FUN or does it feel like punishment/work? Lets not forget the mega dungeon, no healing potions and only being able to do the timesink healing all the way through...meh

I prefer leaning toward GD, but going up and down the scale. It should have moments of dark depressing horror, then change to moments of hope/joy/humor, going up and down the rollercoaster. I think there is nothing wrong with yoru character influencing the direction, making it more brighter or darker and all the shades of grey in between. That is the point of most RPG's, to influence the world, I do not want another DA2 where your actions did nothing in the game. As for GM, I don't really thing the DA series had that much GD, it felt mostly just a normal fantasy setting, there was a few token GD moments, but overall nothing special.

There are areas that are really huge that it is easy to get backtracked and lost even with map. Woods/wide open spaces/repetative areas, etc for example. You end up scratching your head going, did I go there? Did I miss anything...etc. It is very frustrating to go to a place and leave, then find out you forgot some very important item or flat out walked right beside it and did not notice it, then you have to backtrack all the way to get it. Oh, lets not forget the mega dungeon they are making. I have a feeling it will be very easy to get lost or miss things in it. Like I said, have it default to no quest markers, but give an *OPTION* for those who want them. I do not see the problem if its optional, besides some people lack of will power to not abuse them. Otherwise all it will do is make people go online to look up walkthoughts and spoil themselves which I think is worse.

I agree with OP and others, liches need to be in. If there is necromancy in the game (I really hope there is), those who wish to become immortal undead/creature should be alowed too. If for anything, to balance out the usual PC characters we got so far with something actually different. I always hated in CRPG games, that the 'evil' beings seek immortality with dark rituals, but ironically in most casses the PC characters do not get that option and has to stop the ritual wether you want to or not. I am like, whyyyyyyy? Why can't I do the deed myself and gain power and imortality? On a side rant, if there is a cult/dark faction, I hope we can have the option to join them instead of just wiping them out, or helping them but not actually joining them to get all the cool benefits that actual cult/faction members get.

Detailed info as default is nice, but there needs to be an *option* in settings for hints (point in the general direction) and flat out point to the location/place/item/person/etc for those situations where you either forget what you were looking for, or you just cannot find it and don't want to search the net for a walkthrough/help.

Ok, that is cool then. The way it was mentioned made me think they were the only ones around. Side note, I still read vailians as villains for some reason. Human beings pretty consistently abuse people and animals that are physically smaller and weaker than them. It's not a matter of people hating orlans; it's a matter of a subset of people being able to get away with physically overpowering them and taking advantage of that. There are only two things in the update that have what would be considered uniquely "elven" names: Eír Glanfath and biamhac. Everything else is either Aedyran or Vailian. Fuzzy brain got me then, my bad.

*note, only had 2 hours sleep, fuzzy brain writing to follow* Maybe there is nothing to it, but like I said, I had my suspicion way before they made this anouncement that they were going to make the slavers dark skinned (its an american thing for those not in the US). It is NOT radical or new, it is just a form of political correct version. PC version: It is ok for dark skinned to enslave other races/ethnic groups, but its not ok for a non dark skinned to be slavers and have dark skinned slaves. Again, this is after they caved so quickly to even the little bit of criticism on the boobarmour (note, I do think the boobarmour was ugly, but the changes made the armour uglier and too unisex for my liking). I really am sick to death of politically correct games who try and avoid controversy. If they wanted to avoid controversy in a way that wasn't so blantant PC, they could have created a colony formed from traders and merchants from different regions and ethnics who are unified in making profit with less legal interference. Think of bioshocks backstory of why the underground city was made, to allow capitalism and innovation without government interference, allowing natural market forces decide what is acceptible and not. Again, maybe there is nothing to this, but I am still suspiscous, also, if the only sexism (or other controversy that reverses the roles to be PC) in the game is from women to men in some BS reasoning, then I will be VERY dissapointed. Still, the other stuff isn't bad, that was my biggest gripe. *end fuzy brain writing*

Ok, I won't repeat the praise going around, I do feel it also. However, I got to pull back and give it a little critique to balance it out. I do want to say the screen shot is fantastic, although I wish we could see a NPC or PC character to get an idea of what it will look like all together. Still, love the style. A few thoughts/ *minor* issues. The lore, a lot of people are praising it, but it seemed kind of thin on meat. It is good, but not really great. I did not see anything that is making me go OMG that is amazing! it felt like stuff I had seen before, which is NOT bad. However, it just depends on what the meat is, any outline will look done before really until you actually see the nitty gritty details and that is when the OMG moment comes out. So cautiously optomistic. The Gods - just from the outline, it seems we are going norse myth/greek where the gods seem to be humanoid incarnations. I could be way off, but goddess of war, god of light. :/ Since they are breeding with other races, I guess they are leaning with basically super powerful humanoid. That is a bit sad since I was hoping for more alien personality gods that defy mortal understanding. It might still lean that way, not enough info. Ok, slaves - sorry, got to gripe. I am not joking, when we were discussing slaves and slavers early in PE start, in the back of my mind, I said to myself. I hope they do not try to create political correct slavers and try to avoid controversy by making the slavers dark skined...nah, obsidian would not do that.... So the leading group that are slavers is the one group that will most likely NOT be slaves. *sigh* I am not surprised considering how quick they caved to the boobarmour. Well, lets see if my other political correctness worry shows up, my other worry is the one group of sexism in the game is women be dominant in an area and looks down on men in the game. Well, at least they did not make some race the token race that everybody hates like I mentioned in other threads..oh..wait ... OK, that is the biggest issue I have. Just a few more minor ones. Ah, one other thing, the name Vailians looks too much like villains to me. subconscious Freudian slip? Elven names, yea, a little too much elven names around, don't humans and the other races get to name anything? Speaking of races, what about the other races? So far all I see really is human elves, would like to get info about the other races and a bit of lore since we only have a few days left. svef - glad they got drugs, but hope there is more than just this one and each has different effects. 3 mil goal and 3.5 mil goal. Ok, that is a LOT of monies, I hope we get the 3 mil, really want to get the fortress, but 3.5 is too much in my mind. Will be surprised if we get it. Now, there is a lot of space in between the 3 mil and 3.5, how about some minor stretch goals between them? something that will be nice, but will not take too much extra work. So even if we do not get the big ones, at least we will get something along the way. Ok, this might look worse than intended (really late here and brain is addled), I am glad at what I have seen, but I do have some worries as mentioned. Hope to see more info soon.

It is a bit confusing and needs clarifying.

It would have been nice to have some rogue/non-hero/evil classes instead of the strait up leans heavily toward good. Something like assassin, necromancer, dark knight, cutlist...etc. Tired of the 'hero' classes and dissapointed that is mostly what we have at the stretch goals. Even if they added some now as another stretch goal, it will be probably too late and everybody is tapped out. palidans, bards(oops..I meant chanters), barbarians... *sigh* I am happy for those who like these classes, it is just a shame that those of us who like playing something different got the short end of the straw.

Yea, getting it too and its really dissapointing. Actually, they stink of 'Hero' classes, where are the necromancers? summoners, cultists? Black knights? Assassins, etc. Even if you say you can play them 'evil' they seem to lean toward 'hero' by their very definition. Palidan are like warlords with faith? Then call them something else besides palidan and change them up, palidan has too much baggage by its very name in my opinion, like elves and dwarves. The latest stretchgoals honestly have been dissapointing. Barbarians? Pallidans? This on top of elves and dwarves is making my faith waver for something original a bit. Part of me wonders what 'NEW' thing will be next stretch goal. Dragons? Orcs? halflings? *sigh* Even if they make another stretch goal and added some non hero classes, it is so close to the end there is a good chance it would not be added.

I like these, but I really hope we get some new ORIGINAL unique spells in PE and not just rehashes of the same spells we all have used before. I also hope we got some non combat spells for a change that we can use outside of battle.

The only problem with having another character doing the talking is that they have to either add a LOT of new dialog for each potential speaker or make the dialog so neutral, dumbed down, and lack any personality so anybody could speak it. Neither option apeals to me. I am not against the idea of it, but its like voice acting, it sounds nice, but the cost/benefit math just isn't worth it. I do agree that a stealth character should not have to drag other characters with them and be able to talk to characters if they want. Perhaps the character has some form of magic communication device so the PC can talk through them. Or maybe the stealth character can summon them or create a portal to bring them to the location. Just a thought.

To be fair, you can blame modern games for why people are nervous. Whenever you hear that new content was coming out before the game was even released, it was almost gauranteed that it was something cut from the game and companies were trying to nickel and dime people. Most modern games are not complete anymore, you have to shell out the cash for the game, then MORE money for DLC to get the complete story or something way overpriced dlc. Day one DLC is just a rippoff. I can think of only a few games modern games that felt like the DLC were not rippoffs. Borderlands and Fallout 3, to bad I cannot say the same for skyrim, the new house making DLC feels like horse armour again. Like I said, I do have faith in obsidian though.

one thing, I would like them to explore the dark side of nobility in mideval times. Nobles where always trying to assassinate each other, parents trying to kill children, children trying to kill parents, relatives..etc. All to raise in status, get wealth, land, slaves/serfs...etc. Then there was the decadance, living a life carefree having parties with feasts, while their own parties starved, then we have the infamous incest between nobles (brothers marrying sisters/cousins..etc)'keeping the line pure' before DNA was fully understood and these offspring and sometimes the mother were sent far away to keep this black sheep secret, then we have arranged marriages which basically made noble children chess pieces or living contract between two groups. Would be forced marry (against their will) and were expected to sire a child. Not to mention the abuse many nobles took on its own people that were treated no different than slaves...etc