Badmojo

I kind of agree with what brian fargo wrote on his blog While his setting will most likely be darker, I do agree that if you are going to make a game mature, then make it MATURE in every meaning of the word. Don't hold any punches.

No QTE events at ALL. I do think Fallout level boss deaths are cool, and an *optional* perk or setting to have uber death animation. It was fun in fallout having things explode, especially if there is a huge level difference between my character and the character I am fighting.

These are good, but I would like to see something more fringe...exotic? There is nothing wrong with these, they just seem...safe. Sort of like using elves and dwarves, nothing wrong with it, would just like to see something a bit different. There is so many amazing art on deviant art, would like to see some used in games. These links are galleries with some amazing art work, something like these would be nice. *some nudity in some of the galleries so fair warning* http://benlo.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://chase-sc2.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://cryptcrawler.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://davidgaillet.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://dsillustration.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://hgjart.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://igorkieryluk.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://janaschi.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://jasonengle.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://jenzee.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://jonasdero.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://kir-tat.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://korbox.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://michaelkutsche.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://navate.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://ourlak.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://paooo.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://ptitvinc.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://raphael-lacoste.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://raybender.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://sandara.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://tegehel.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://van-der-dot.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://yayashin.deviantart.com/gallery/ http://zephyri.deviantart.com/gallery/

I am so glad this will be a singleplayer game and not include multiplayer just because everyone else is doing it.

They said there was different levels of settings. The only thing is that each setting seem to allow you to have access to some features and not others if I understand correctly, what about a 'custom' setting to go through and turn on or off everything at the beginning of the game instead of pigeonholing us into a specific style of play?

There was an interesting argument I overheard one day. Everybody is against sweat shops because of the working conditions and feel like they accomplished something when they close them down. However, a person from an area that has a sweat shop pointed out that it is horrible when they close a sweat shop. While it is horrible working conditions by most of our standards, it at least gave people a place to work and money, when they closed the shops, most of those women workers were forced into prostitution to survive. Showing this would be very powerful, but it should not be a simple binary choice, you should be able to find multiple solutions and have some forsight into what will happen. Maybe you can convince, blackmail, or replace the owner with someone who will make better working conditions, perhaps you can get the community together to make a community job that shares the wealth, or perhaps you should convince them to join the military, they get a job and money, but its dangerous, perhaps you are evil or good and take over the place yourself, creating better working conditions, or making it even worse, but making more profit. Maybe you trick them into thinking you freed them, then sell them to slavery. just avoid the simple binary choices, create multiple solutions for the situations we run into. One thing you rarely see is magic being used in mature settings. These are a few ideas I have in my own setting. What about that guy (or girl) who is obsessed with someone, do you not think they would put a spell on them to fall in love (or sex slave). Not to mention what slave traders and brothels would do with magic. What about necromancy being used to bring back the dead as labor and soldiers? How would you feel if the culture required to give all dead bodies too the government to be brought back as an undead slave? Knowing that is your fate. What about soul transfer? What if instead of being executed for a crime, or prisoners of war, the soul is removed and another is put in. Say soldiers slain in battle would awaken to find themselves in another body, to fight again. Perhaps that would be a recruiting tool, too old or frail, join the military and get a new body, be young and strong again! (oh, forgot to mention that you do not decide what type of body, you might be a guy waking up in a womans body or vice versa...hey, at least your healthy) or worse, imagine nobles and the rich that would never die. Lot of interesting things that could be done.

Also, if there is an assassin and you have an assassin quest, you could knock out non targets to get to your main target. You could also subdue and interigate someone, and if you are evil, you could subdue/capture someone and sell them into slavery.

The problem is that you will have up to six companions. That means you are going to probably fighting big battles, probably lots of little battles too. Your characters are going to probably get hurt a LOT. As mentioned, I do NOT want to run back and have to get healed by doctor/healer, nor sleep spam (or some other useless time sink) to get back to full health. I know some of you do not like regeneration healing, but at least it does not force you to stop the flow of the story because you have to heal again, and again, and again like you do with the other methods..

This definetly crosses into annoyance and not fun aspect. So no, if you get loot, you should be able to use it.

I love rich long dialog and learning/talking to NPC's about random stuff. It makes NPC's more than simple walking arrows sign posts for the almighty quests and one of the most important things I love about old school RPG's. Take the original deus ex, PST, Fallout..etc, I would sit there and read, and read all the random dialog...and I LOVED it. Please do not take that away or dumb it down. Someone should make a poll and ask what everyone thinks.

Agreed. Eating, drinking, sleeping, defecating, repairing are all realistic, but boring and detract from fun, and we're in a magical fantasy world anyway. Repairing is not fun or enjoyable. I have never heard anyone exclaim, "Hey, so I was playing X, and I got to drop what I was doing and go back to town to repair my gear! It was awesome! I can't wait to repair something again!" Unless it's to repair an item for a quest, it's just a hassle. I have enough boring, annoying, tedious chores in real life. Agreed, it is not fun. So, no to durability. As for magic charage, I also say no. Oblivion/skyrim show why its bad. You use the item a couple of times and its useless until you go somewhere to recharge it. Either have magic items recharge with time, or something that I have been thinking of, is to have them leech mana from the user (as long as the users mana pool recharges).

The main thing is that I just do not want the game to have mature in the title, then only have a few *Token* mature moments and in the end is just a PG-13 game. I would say DAO went that route, and DA2 wasn't even up to PG-13 in my mind. I liked the old fallout games 1/2. 2 more than 1 in my mind, it covered very mature serious subjects without shying away, but it also lightened the mood by having dark humor now and again.

I called this way back on page 4 Personally, we are all circle jerking this thread with our own opinions and nothing is going to change each others opinions. This thread neads to be locked and/or moved to a different forum (way off topic for example), any time another thread like it pops up (and it will pop up again), it should be moved and merged to keep the poison forming here, from interferring with other threads. This is not about the game any more, this is about ideology and political views in general.

But, what if I want SOME women to be like the one above (not nude, but sexually alluring). It IS a fantasy setting so that we can play out our fantasies. Not all obviously, but some would be cool. The only issue I really have about the second one is that the clothes just look ugly.

Thief Assassin Necromancer Cultist/priest (tap into god/priest/demon/diety power) I also liked what the person mentioned above about manipulating shadows for thief/assassin (like teleport from one shadow to the next, create shadow wepons/monsters, invisible in shadows etc) Constructor - make artificial creatures, like elemental golems, flesh golems (frankenstein monsters from collected body parts) Social (non violent) character (seducer, blackmailer, intemidator, investigator, genius...etc)

Yes, it adds another layer of play to the game and gives the character more than the almighty quest to do. As long as its not forced and people can ignore it if they do not like it, there is nothing wrong with it.

Your top link does not work

I love VTMB and shudder what would have happened if that game had gone the politically correct route, I like how men and women are treated differently. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lqiFAm7R-ZY

How is putting in controversial topics INTELLIGENTLY being a soapbox? If any way, that's one of the few ways to avoid turning it into a soapbox. That's all anyone's asking. That if there is female inequity, it be treated with respect and thoughtfulness, and not 'just because it's the way things are, shuddup, this is a medium for a male audience'. Not dismissing viewpoints in a debate =/= do whatever we say or you're a rabid propagandist. Nobody ever said anyone's a rape supporter, nazi, or baby eaters. Well, maybe lord of flies, but he/she seems to be trolling. There's women here asking for other things. You're just not listening to them because you're only listening to what you wish to hear, i.e. what confirms your beliefs that you're right. And you are not listening to me. I do NOT want this in the game, I am sick to death of seeing all games treat everybody exactly the same wether you are male/famle/human/other besides some minor cosmetic differences. I am tired of seeing fictional worlds where there is no conflict of the sexis or bigotry because developers/publishers try to avoid the issues and the games are some PG-13 disney setting with more blood. There can be games where we all get along, I am not saying there ever can't, but they should NOT be in EVERY SINGLE GAME, which is what the feminest crowd is screaming for and nothing less will do. Let me ask you, should EVERY game try to cater to everybody? Is there anything wrong with creating games (or other entertainment) targeted for specific groups, especially when that group is your core group.

"Women don't play RPGs, so there's no need to make RPGs that (contain features which) cater to women." Go back in time a little bit, and this becomes : "Women don't read books, so there's no need to write books that (contains elements which) cater to women." "Women don't do activity X, so there's no need for activity X to cater listen to the concerns of women." I don't want to prolong the point, but really, THIS is one of the reasons why yes, you should try to cater to women. They're 50% of the population, after all, and perhaps once more women has figured out that they don't have to like barbies because all games for girls are about barbies and Babysittingz, RPGs might find a new market, sell more, and we might be in less of a predicament where 90% of games are made solely---not just cater---to the whims of teenaged males. Older, wiser males benefit, too! Opening genres up to women has led to diversification of said genre through the ages, while closing off a genre tends to simplify it to a greater degree. It's got to start SOMEWHERE. See this is the other examples I hate. Oh, we are supressing women by not making them anything but equel in EVERY piece of work. Regardless if its real or fictional. Then we have the argument that opening up games will have more women interested in it...um, games are already open to women. There are whole gaming sections that are dedicated to it, in fact there are gaming groups that only make games for women. Now, the argument that if rpgs were more open to women they will magically come is just silly. I see this argument used in every debate like this and its nothing more than wishful thinking. There are more women playing hardcore games, but not by much, until we get some real numbers its debatable. However, I love that to get these *potential* women players, we have to take stuff away that a lot of *real* old school players like. Let me ask this back to you : did you read what I wrote? I never said we need to make women equal in every piece of work. You're only reading what you wish to hear. What I said, specifically, is that it is important that women's concerns are listened to when creating a piece of work, and not just shot down because 'it's not for them'. Because it will NEVER be for them, in that case. This does not necessarily imply that 'all women in games must be treated with equity'. That's idiotic. Not all women in books are empowered, and it's important that they are not empowered where they're not supposed to be, setting-wise. What it DOES imply is that, one CANNOT just dismiss their concerns just because it's 'not their place.' What do stuff that 'real (male) oldschool players like' do you have to take away to listen to women's concerns, exactly? Is 'historical inequity for women' that important for oldschool RPG players? Skimpy armor? Sex-object women? Is that what you look for in RPGs? Is this important to being oldschool? Are you suggesting that by making RPGs appeal to women, they all have to contain features like Facebook games, barbie games? Can we have no discussion of gender at all, and women JUST have to be unequal because RPGs are all based on Medieval Europe and that's just the way it was? What are oldschool players losing that is so important that they cannot afford to lose, that they can dismiss the other 50% of the human population? I don't think that's what you want to say, but once again, listen to what you're actually saying. It's very easy to say that 'they don't want what I want, and what I want are not what they want' when you never ask or try to offer what they want in the first place. And yes, if games of any type appeal more to women, they WILL 'magically' come, because they're not as predisposed towards the whole 'women don't play games' trope as you'd like to believe. It's been that way for EVERY SINGLE KIND OF MEDIA in the past. I don't see why it will not be for games. What is so special about RPGs that it defies every prior historical example? Also, if you say 'games are already open to women, there are groups that already make games dedicated to women', HAHAHA. Oh my god, that is RICH. What games would those be, pray tell? Babyz? Dress up? Cooking Mama? Facebook games? Don't say the Sims, btw, that's made for both genders, women just decide to play them more.The otome games made by Japan doesn't count, btw. But I suppose you are set in your views, because that's how opinions are. I will sound like the feminist bastard trying to convince you that P:E need to have politcally correct female empowerment, when I am only trying to say that 'dismissing female viewpoints on traditionally male subjects because they're female is a fallacy'. And you will continue to insist that the old way is the ONLY way to be, because they offer what you like, so why should they change? This is a subject with strong opinions. It's because it's a subject with strong opinions not liable to change, that it has became a cultural issue. I've said all that I wish to say on the subject, and may others who did not press the skip button at the sight of the post make their own judgements. Funny, I am pretty sure most of us paying for the game because we want the old school style game. That includes putting in controversal topics and NOT being a soap box for peoples version of political correctness. Do NOT say read my words again, I know what I wrote, read your own. You say listen to women, but how can I do that when all I hear are the rabid feminest demanding that they do it there way and only there way and if you don't then you are a baby eating, dog kicking nazi, mysogist, rape supporter. This whole thread is turning to poison, it should be locked or moved to another forum to keep from driving people off who are sick of seeing this debate for MONTHS on every website.

There are so many types of villians. Perhaps it should be who are the most memorable villians, the ones that stick out in your mind. The Terminator The joker Darth Vador The Borg (pre queen) Hannibal Lector Freddy Krueger Roy Batte (blade runner) Gollum (lord of the rings) Hal (2001 a space odessy)

Slavery should be in the game, I also agree that if you are the evil type that you can buy slaves to work in your house. That would actually be pretty good, getting into the slave market would be interesting too like the original fallout. Perhaps having an option instead of killing enemies, you could capture and sell them into slavery. Hell, I would like to go further, having the option to capture bosses and force them to clean your house to show everybody what happens when they go against you.

Because we want entertainment, not political propaganda.

"Women don't play RPGs, so there's no need to make RPGs that (contain features which) cater to women." Go back in time a little bit, and this becomes : "Women don't read books, so there's no need to write books that (contains elements which) cater to women." "Women don't do activity X, so there's no need for activity X to cater listen to the concerns of women." I don't want to prolong the point, but really, THIS is one of the reasons why yes, you should try to cater to women. They're 50% of the population, after all, and perhaps once more women has figured out that they don't have to like barbies because all games for girls are about barbies and Babysittingz, RPGs might find a new market, sell more, and we might be in less of a predicament where 90% of games are made solely---not just cater---to the whims of teenaged males. Older, wiser males benefit, too! Opening genres up to women has led to diversification of said genre through the ages, while closing off a genre tends to simplify it to a greater degree. It's got to start SOMEWHERE. See this is the other examples I hate. Oh, we are supressing women by not making them anything but equel in EVERY piece of work. Regardless if its real or fictional. Then we have the argument that opening up games will have more women interested in it...um, games are already open to women. There are whole gaming sections that are dedicated to it, in fact there are gaming groups that only make games for women. Now, the argument that if rpgs were more open to women they will magically come is just silly. I see this argument used in every debate like this and its nothing more than wishful thinking. There are more women playing hardcore games, but not by much, until we get some real numbers its debatable. However, I love that to get these *potential* women players, we have to take stuff away that a lot of *real* old school players like.

Yea, I want the full specrtum (or as many as possible) choices for being the type of evil I want to play. I do not like having choices for good, but only one path for evil.