Boeroer

Please understand this: you can't get faster than 0 recovery. You may want to be all fair and also give the dual wielder those buffs like Frenzy and so on. You can add Frenzy + other speed buffs to a dual wielder, sure - but it's of no use at some point because he can't get any faster than O recovery while the two hander catches up to that. And once (quite late in the game) he did that he does always more dps - Full Attacks aside. That's the whole point that I and others (including Kaylon I guess) are trying to make. Before that the dual weapon setup does more damage against low to mid DR foes, that's right. Kaylon didn't write in favor of any position - he posted a test result - showing how a two hander can be as fast as a dual wielding setup (and thus doing more dps). That undergirds what I was saying. I have the feeling that I have to elaborate a lot because you don't get what I mean. In fact it is quite simple but your comments are not very helpful.

I'm looking forward to playing a gun ranger/priest of magran. Maybe Powder Burns will still be in the game...

I don't make it personal and I don't mislead. In fact I'm trying to stay focused and not to beat around the bush. I'm also trying to avoid sarcastic comments. You should read my posts again. You will see that I don't make any insulting or misleading comments nor do I attack you personally. And I don't shout either. You are not limited to potions. A barbarian with Frenzy and Bloodlust (and maybe also Blood Thirst) could achieve 0 recovery without potions for example: being as fast with a two hander as with dual weapons. So it's possible (and not too difficult in the late game) to out dps dual wielding with a two hander. That was your question and it got answered. I'm not trying to win anything, I'm just rying to answer your question and to show you that there is no simple answer. What I also said is that it' way easier to achieve 0 recovery (earlier) with dual wielding and pointing out other advantages of dual wielding - supporting parts of your position as well. I'm sorry that you can't see that I'm trying to be neutral here. But your initial statement was very strong: "not suitable/no way/how is it possible". Several users, including me, showed that it can be suitable and also is possible. Maybe for you and your playstyle it is not the case, but that doesn't mean that two handers are not viable or can't compete. No need to get huffy I'd say.

Eh? Why is a melee oriented ranger with an animal companion taking away somethig? You can already do this in PoE1 and it's quite unique because of the "tandem"-mechanics of ranger & pet, flanking an enemy. I made a build for it and it works really well - and is totally different from rogues or fighters or whatever. Nobody said there should be a subclass that focuses on melee AND have no animal companion. We willl have one base class and three subclasses by the way.

Your question: "how is that possible"? The answer is: That's the answer. If you attack as fast as a dual wielder (meaning you strike as often in a given timespan) you will have "out dpsed" a dual wielder bwecause your damage er hit will be higher. So there is a way - and it's not that quirky or weird. Quite simple. I don't see the need for shadowboxing. I'm not in favor of two handers or dual wielding. Both have their pros and cons. Simply saying "X is better than Y" or "Hours of St. Rumbalt is not suitable for a rogue" doesn't work in this game and you can see why. There are too many ifs (build, enemy's DR, actual attack speed, buffs, damage types, unique enchantments, party composition and so on).

That would be nice. A bit like the old D&D rangers - Drizzt and stuff. But I can't think of any plausible talents around dual wielding at the moment (besides two weapon style of course). Maybe more cool Full Attacks would be nice. In PoE things like Wounding Shot (or Strike) are Primary Attacks only - which is lame.

We are certainly not getting it wrong. A potion of Alacrity or Frenzy + Gautlets (~50% speed bonus) are enough to attack as fast as a dual wielder (who sort of has the same speed bonus without doing anything but wearing two weapons). But that's not what Kaylon meant I guess. He was explaining that you can attack with 0 recovery if you do the things he listed. Once you reach 0 recovery it doesn't matter if you dual wield or use a two hander. 0 recovery is 0 recovery and you can't get faster than that. The 20 DEX was only mentioned because with it you can skip one frame(!) that would otherwise be displayed. So - attack speed of two handers and dual wielding will be the same once you reach 0 recovery - but damage per hit will be higher with the two hander. That will result in higher dps obviously: same speed + higher damage per hit = higher dps. By the way the two hander user can of course wear armor and still reach 0 recovery. Either he's wearing a durganized robe (=0% penalty) or he's a fighter and wears durganized scale combined with Armored Grace as I already said. A dual wielder will not per se attack with 0 recovery. BUT it's a lot easier for him to reach 0 recovery. Dual wielding alone will not get him there. He would also need to drink a potion of Alacrity and have no armor penatly - but then he could skip Gauntlets of Swift Action and durgan steel. OR he could use those things and wear heavy armor and/or use Vulnerable Attack for a bit more sturdyness and dps (doesn't reach two hander's dps, but comes close) and still have 0 recovery. This is an advantage of course - but so much for your as for survivability. So, in terms of auto-attack dps (not looking at armor and whatnot) a two hander can be better than dual wielding in the late game - but it's more fuzz to get there. Once you have a lot (or even unlimited) Full Attacks dual wielding is generally better. A good exampe is the monk with Torment's Reach where dual wielding is a lot better than a two hander. Counterexample could be a barbarian because the +33% damage malus of carnage, paired with high DR of enemies, can lead to a lot of MIN damage where a two hander like an estoc would punch through easily.

Nice momentum we have right now.

PoE1 ranger can be pretty good in melee. Stunning Shots, combined with Swift Aim and dual wielding turns you into a stunlock-machine. Marked Prey is very good - and Wounding Shot is nice with two handers (check it out with Firebrand...). Stalker's Link with Stalker's Torc is good for melee, too. You don't need to spend any talent or ability points on your animal companion. Although you'd lose some very nice synergies if you skip it all I'd say. Since there will be the Ghost Heart Lodge in PoE2 which only has a spirit-like animal companion which you can summon but don't need to, we already have a ranger who's more "self centered". I think it's very likely that one of the other two subclasses goes the opposite way and does invest more into the animal companion(s).

Is there ANY story to this? (because they seem like theres no story, all combat mostly) I toy with getting grimrock 2 often. (and this would help me decide) explained. Ah ok. Well... it's really like Dungeon Master and Eye of the Beholder where you don't talk a lot but instead find hints and clues about the lore and the world. I mean you get thrown into a dungeon and have to crawl out. There's a heavy emphasis on puzzles - some of them really hard but not mandatory. If you like that than yay, if not than it's not a game for you. So, no, not really big storytelling there.

$1275...

Ehm... sorry - what exactly do you mean?

There is no spell that gets completely rid of this. Maybe one can suppress it via Suppress Affliction or Liberating Exhortation (never tried). You can prevent a hit with high fortitude - and you can try to heal your party up because Infestation of Maggots deals no damage if the victim has full endurance. I never had any problems with this spell. Multiple instances of Plague of Insects are more annoying in my opinion.

Which skill? If you have a priest then try Inspiring & Aggrandizing Radiance + Minor Avatar + Devotions + Shining Beacon - one of the best AoE damage combos in the game. If you add Cleansing Flame after that it gets ridiculous. Sure, those spells come a bit later. Before that you are stuck with Iconic Projection and Pillar of Faith for AoE damage. But once you have Shining Beacon your priest has a very powerful AoE damage tool. Later you can add Storm of Holy Fire and stuff, too.

I mean it's relatively easy to find out which does better damage without math (which might be prone to mistakes if you can't be sure about all the details): just attack a teammate and monitor how much health is left after a given timespan. Do it often enough and you can see which one is better in terms of damage. You can easily switch armors on your "crush test dummy" to simulate different DR and resistences, too. It just takes some time.

It would all be OK if they just explained their own mechanics correctly. Doesn't matter what Unity 4 can do and what not in my opinion. Just say that attack speed mods only work on recovery, that they are multiplicative when they stack and belong to the same group - and name that groups - and that they stack additively if they are from different groups. Give two or three examples and that's it. Can't be so difficult. Any underpaid intern who can read this forum could write it down so that OBS could place it in the game.

But that's not the case. The damage and accuracy of the druid's natural weapons scale with level. And certain spells are especially good when you combine them with a melee approach (=spiritshift). All storm spells (Returning, Relentless and Avenging Storm) are a good example, but also Nature's Terror. Due to scaling weapons (= very high base damage at higher levels) which are paired with very potent lashes, inherent DR bypass and attack speed a spiritshifted druid does the highest single target dps in PoE game at high levels just by hitting stuff. But spiritshift is limited of course. As a bonus he can cast all those awesome spells - his best are his CC spells in my opinion. One of the neatest tricks with shifting is to wear spell holding gear like the Sanguine Plate, run into battle, receive a crit and then shift: you will have all the benefits of the spell holdings - like Frenzy - without any drawbacks - like the 50% recovery penalty from plate armor. If you take away the spells from the subclass (which can shift for unlimited time) then the spiritshift form would have to be even more powerful to make up for that, that's true. I would love to see more dedicated talents or abilites for the different spiritshift forms (I mean besides the existing that you can't influence or which are 1/rest :/ ).

I really digged Legend of Grimrock. The atmosphere was great (turn off the lights and use headphones ), the combat system is not too complicated. There you could also do multiple runs like in PoE because there were enough good and viable builds. It's a dungeon crawler like Eye of the Beholder used to be - and it's not too old. Grimrock 2 I didn't play yet because they refuse to release a Linux version like they did with Grimrock 1.

I actually like it that you can't tell which one is the best - even if you understood how the underlying mechanics work. All three have their uses. But you are absolutely right - the mechanics around dmg bonuses vs. lashes, fixed damage DoTs like wounding and also attack speed are very, very obscure (amongst other stuff). This could and should be explained better. My guess is that the designers don't *really* know how this stuff got implemented, too. Look at bashing: obviously Josh and friends didn't know why bashing itself takes away DPS instead of raising it in the most cases.

Tidefall comes a lot earlier than the BotEP. That's one of the reasons I usually favour Tidefall over the Blade. The other is the two damage types. Crits are good for wounding - like you said it's based on the initial damage. This becomes even more important if you get durgan steel. The more dmg mods you add the better for Tidefall - it's a lash after all - while the +5 flat damage of the Blade via DR bypass don't get "buffed" by anything. Marking is a very special enchantment. So I like to give the Blade to somebody who can somwhow use this enchantment. Like a damage-oriented paladin with Coordinated Attacks for example. Good damage and great single ally ACC support at the same time. And last but not least: the attack animation of estocs is a bit boring... But what about a third option: Hours of St. Rumbalt? It has two damage types, it causes prone on crit, it is annihilating (= +50% additional damage on crit). And it also comes quite early. This is the great sword I use most of the time. Fighter's high ACC, combined with Disciplined Barrage leads to a lot of prone-crits with huge damage. CC is much more effective than pure dps in my opinion - and when it's paired with annihilation it's even better. Also works great with high INT. I like high INT on fighters. If you start with a Knockdown then usually the enemy won't get up again.

Ah, ok. Now I understand which break point you meant.

It's great for the early game. Later on you don't need it, but it really helps to get off the starting blocks.

Death Godlike chanter with single haded weapon is a good thing. Come Sweet Winds will get +12 ACC and White Worms also gets the ACC bonus if I remember correctly. And of course things like Phantom and some other invocation fit nicely, too. Vile Loner's Lance might be a good pick. Works great with the Champion invocation that gives you +interrupt. Maybe add Interrupting Blows, too? Together with Mourning Gloves you might have interrupt-lock on single targets. Cladhaliath with stunning + vicious might also be nice. edit: thanks.

Moon Godlike Kind Wayfarer, St. Ydwen's Redeemer and Tidefall, Shod-in-Faith, Jack of Wide Waters armor, St. Borragia's Tears amulet, Lay on Hands, Healing Chain, survival 12 (14 with armor, +60% healing received), Veteran's Recovery, Fulvano's Amulet or Belt of Bountiful Healing. Wound Binding, Acolyte's Radiance. Youl will heal all the time - if you kill, if you use FoD, if your endurance drops, if you receive a crit, with LoH, with Holy Radiance, with Healing Chain - while you will have awesome regeneration and self heals, too (+105%). If your health drops too fast - use Wound Binding or potions of Infuse with Vital Essence. With that much healing bonus those will give you back a ton of health.

Nature Godlike monk with max MIG, PER and INT, Tall Grass with corrosive lash & Aspirant's Mark (or Greenstone Staff), Rotfinger Gloves, Ryona's Breastplate or Argwe's Adra or the Colored Coat. Enervating Blows, Envenomed Strike. Bilestompers + Spirit of Decay will give you +10 corrosion DR - combined with Iron Wheel you can have +20 corrosion DR on top of your armor's DR. You can walk into our party's corrosion spells without fear. Instead of Bilestompers you could also try Greenstained Boots + Wyrwood Ring. You can combine this with the Nature's Embrace belt.