Boeroer

The best way would be to use the console. Who wants to play through the game every time he wants to try out a new build idea in a certain encounter? All my build ideas are tested with tje console first and if they seem to be good I will put them through the whole game - not the other way round. And a proper way would be to define a ruleset. Else you couldn't compare properly. But if you want to compare single target damage or overall damage - which are pretty narrow things - you can easily define some simple rules and try it out. And if we see afterwards that it wasn't fair game we could still adapt the rules.

Torment's Reach does work with Turning Wheel. But only with the initial hit (the enemy you click on), NOT the cone. The cone has its own base damage and doesn't get the lash bonus. Since Torment's Reach's initial hit will also get a 50% crushing lash, using Turning Wheel with it and also adding Lightning Strikes, maybe even Blood Testament Gloves and a burning lash on your weapon is crazy powerful for your single target damage (a monk with all those lashes and Scion of Flame can hit harder than a rogue with Deathblows, but since he uses his wounds to deliver Torment's Reach he can't sustain the damage as long). The cone is a really nice AoE bonus and works with weapon's accuracy (not fists' accuracy, don't ask me why) and also with spell chance and on-crit effects.

I would like it. If it's possible to make an arena mod: also fine.

I meant it in a way than one tries to solve a given encounter better than the other player. It would be great if OBS would give us a kind of PvP arena in PoE2. Or maybe a mod is possible, don't know.

If you don't know what else to take.

Last time I tried the modal was switched off completely (maybe 3.04 or before). At leastI remember so. I was only testing a lvl 16 rogue with the console for about 10 minutes - so maybe my memory fails me.

Well you had a big part in creating "this crap". I find it interesting enough to read though - no insulting or aggression so far. That's a good thing, even if we disagree completely and you try to evade my challenge. A quite civilized discussion for such an emotional (or so it seems) topic. So it's all cool. I could do a video. Why not? I will come up with something. Maybe it will take some time because today is the day where they start to build my new house and I'm pretty sure there's a lot of hard, back-aching work waiting for me...

You're welcome.

The good thing about Reckless Assault is the +8 ACC, not the +20% DMG. That's just a nice bonus. Savage Attack doesn't work with Reckless Assault by the way. One will switch off the other. All DMG bonuses except lashes (and confident aim) only add % of base damage. It's the stacking of those bonuses that makes your attacks powerful. If you can get them, then favour lashes. Best is to have both.

Yes - skip Vulnerable Attack with sabres. It's good for fast weapons with speed enchant, or if you already have high weapon speed and surpassed 0 recovery. But sabres are relatively slow and there are none with speed enchant and a rogue has no ability other than Outlander's Frenzy which could boost his speed. As firkraag888 said: sabre + rogue leads to quite high damage per hit that should overcome most DR easily. 20% speed loss will hamper your DPS more than the +5 DR bypass can do your good.

Every damage bonus works like this. It's always % of weapon base damage. Exception are lashes. That makes them so powerful.

Hehe - I started a rogue for the same reason (and because nostalgia - it was my first MC class in PoE)... and at lvl 8 I restarted with a monk. Can't tell you in words how much easier and more fun it is with a monk - if you like monks that is.

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/86684-mechanics-the-big-attack-speed-conundrum/ This one? Yes, exactly. MaxQuest is the master of attack speed and other mechanics stuff. If you understand what is written there you totally know how attack speed works.

Bittercut is also nice for rogues because Vile Thorns will not only work with Deathblows but also deliver Deep Wounds to everything they hit (Minor Missiles, Concussive Missiles and Bounding Missiles do that, too - also Missile Barrage of course). AND the Vile Thorns spell binding on Bittercut has no recovery and gets cast instantly without a fat & lazy animation. Don't know why, but it lets you spam 3 Vile Thorns uses in the blink of an eye - which can totally save your buttocks.

They want to change that in PoE. Enemies will not drop all their equipment as loot anymore.

Josh said that PoE2 rogues will be sturdier. He meant the "vanilla" version. And the new subclass, the Assassin, will focus on single target damage and be more fragile than the normal PoE2 rogue - sounds like the PoE1 rogue. Maybe we will even see a very tough subclass, like a Pit Fighter or something like that - who knows. Or a very nimble thief subclass with evasion and stuff. I like that. That way you can also play something like a burly doorman rogue or a tough bodyguard rogue without the drawbacks (low edurance, health an deflection) all the PoE1 rogues have. I generally like rogue classes a lot. But on PoE1 they are a bit too boring (one trick pony) and too tedious to play as far as I'm concerned. Doesn't have to be the case for other players though. Josh also said there will be pickpocketing and also reverse pickpockting. Now that would be a reason to bring a rogue in every playthrough even if they are not no. 1 single target damage dealer (or whatever they are supposed to be good at). I'm looking forward to Bronteru.

Good joke. You can build him tanky enough, that's true. Another nice approach is to use Badgradr's Barricade and have both high deflection and reflex as well as good damage. But do the same with any other class, especially fighter or paladin, and it's more tanky. So your statement is not true. By the way if you build and play your rogue that way you will have to rest frequently because of low health (not endurance). Rogues have one of the crappiest health pool (I seriously don't know why). Maybe you meant endurance - but that' also bad compared to most other classes. And even if the rogue was more sturdy he would still be the weakest class overall. Sure, running around with dual disabling weapons can be fun - but it's not as much fun (in my opinion) as watching a barb doing the same thing to a while crowd. Rogues can't do anything besides single target damage and maybe single stunlocking. Nothing else - and that's just not good enough on PoTD - after the ealy game - compared to the things that ALL other classes can bring to the table. So that's why I say rogues are the weakest class. Most other classes can be build in a way that they kill a bunch of enemies faster than a rogue. And those who can't can do something else like doing better CC or giving great support. You are still not willing to show me a screenshot or a video of a rogue doing some great stuff I take it. As I said: do Nalrend or his gang in front of the cave with a rogue and then I'll do the same with another class of my choice. Or choose another encounter, doesn't really matter.

That's not really how attack speed works - but it's way too complicated to put it in a few words. There's that whole thread about it. Yeah - you can always retrain if you find something cool that you like better.

I don't think so. You just snuff the candle, Edér says his piece and that's it. Or not?

As far as I know wounding still stacks - with makes Drawn in Spring one of the best DPS weapons overall. Sadly, the UI doesn't show wounding right, like it fails to communicate correct values on so many other occasions. I may be wrong here - I didn't use a wounding weapon since 3.04 - but I guess that a lot of the hardcore-people here would have complained if OBS nerfed this. BUT you have to have high MIG in order to experience the true greatness of wounding. That's because MIG not only influences the damage roll which wounding's damage is based on, but it also buffs wounding directly (doing more than 25%). With low MIG wounding is not as good. Some rogues have lowish MIG because they can get lots of other DMG boosts and therefore invest more in DEX or PER. Bittercut is very good if you also take Spirit of Decay and put a corrosive lash on it. Two damage types are very nice to have, too. If I would have to decide between stilettos and daggers I would probably take stilettos - but only because all the Lagufaeth stilettos tou can loot do slash damage instead of pierce. That way you can have a good backup weapon set for the enemies who are resistant or immune to pierce damage. But as I said: rapier + dagger totally fine. Just avoid to use abilities with them that only have limited uses like Backstab and Finishing Blow. Those work one time with the weapon's base damage and since light, fast weapons have low base damage the outcome would be meh. Just skip those or switch to a heavy weapon (guns also work) before using those abilities. Also includes Runner's Wounding Shot, which is very powerful with a heavy weapon like an arquebus for example and not so good with a dagger.

Please don't be sarcastic. Nobody said or meant that. We are just saying that those weapons or the usage of them don't prove anything around the question "weakest class/best damage dealer". Of course those are great weapons and they improve a melee character's performance. But not only the performance of rogues. Rogues do more crits than most other classes and maybe the most crits when it comes to single targets - but that doesn't make them the best damage dealer or a powerfull class per se. It's not that other classes don't crit at all or something like that.

No, not vastly. Just a bit. It's totally viable to wield daggers or stilettos. But if you ask me about the optimum of dps I would say dual Rimecutters are best - and the best overall would be We Toki for me because the combo of prone on crit + extra crit damage is nice, followed by Drawn in Spring. Only my personal opinion though. But as I said the Sword of Daenysis + March Steel Dagger is also very nice and it will feel very powerful because so early in the game you will find few dw combos which are as good. If you like the duelist style you can totally do that, stick to it and have lots of fun. Two daggers is also ok of course. There are some nice unique stilettos, also early ones. I wouldn't say that stilettos are worse than daggers when it comes to uniques. Honestly you can take whatever weapon you want - it will not gimp your rogue. This game isn't like that. The weapons are well balanced and the differences between weapons are marginal if you play with a party. If you like daggers best then it's no problem at all. Just don't pick Backstab then (I know: "WTF?" ).

- Daggers: nope, not per se. They are especially bad with things like Backstab because they have high speed but low per hit damage. Backstab attacks are limited so you want to have as much ooph as you can get when backstabbing. That's only an issue if you plan to use Backstab of course. Or you could always have another weapon the the second slot just for the backstabs and switch to daggers once the autoattacking begins. The best one handed weapons for a rogue are those which work well with the high crit chances a rogue has. Those can be annihilating weapons like all battle axes, unique sabres or whatever has that enchantment and is one handed - or those can be weapons which proc an effect when you do a crit - like prone or stun (We Toki battle axe, Cladhaliath spear, Godanysthunyr war hammer). So, in this regard battle axes (as a group) could be seen as the best weapons for rogue - the best one handed weapon maybe We Toki, maybe Cladaliath with stunning + Vicious, maybe Drawn in Spring - or even the two annihilating sabres Resolution and Purgatory. But I doubt that all could agree on one single weapon, a single weapon group or even a single weapon focus because it also depends a lot on your playstyle and how you use a rogue. Drawn in Spring is a great Weapon, on of the best in the game. But since you get it quite late and have to duplicate it in order to dual wield it, I would say daggers as a weapon group are not the superuber best pick - but also not bad, mind you. You can also use rapiers with the same weapon focus and therefore you can combine really good early game weapons like Sword of Daenysis + March Steel dagger which is very good if you look at dps (both have the speed enchantment which lets you easily achieve 0 recovery with a rogue). This has also the advantage that you will do pierce and slash damage and not slash only. - You have to use the Helwax Mold. It's an item you can get via stronghold adventure. You can use the mold to clone any non-soulbound item once (including all enchtantments). - Drawn in Spring, too. A dagger which has high dps and comes quite early is the March Steel Dagger from that quest with the boy Gordy in Defiance Bay, Copperlane. As I said it has speed and that's the best dps enchantment there is besides wounding. - good rapiers are Sword of Daenysis (Salty Mast top floor, Vincent Dwellier, CRPG), Spelltongue (WMI) and Vienna's Leaves (Endless Paths, Adra Dragon). For me the best overall is Sword of Daenysis because it comes so early, has speed and is rending, too (inherent 3 DR bypass like stilettos). But in certain situations and with certain builds Spelltongue is better. - I would say yes. Especially if you use fast, light weapons which tend to have problems with high DR - but watch out: you can't just switch it on and think it's always benefical. There is a sweet spot (DR vs speed) where switching on VA is benefical. BUT there's a case where you can always use it without drawbacks: If you follow my fist recommendation with Sword of Daenysis + March Steel Dagger (Spelltongue + March Steel also works - you can even switch to Drawn in Spring later once you have Durgan Steel) you can quickly reach 0 recovery. Once you reach 0 recovery you can't get faster even if you add more speed bonuses. That is the time when Vulnerable Attack starts to be really good because you don't lose speed (you have "too much speed" already) but will deal +5 damage with every hit.

The target group for CRPGs is a lot smaller - while those people also tend to buy Witcher- and Skyrim-like games. Some of them even buy Dark Souls.

Technically Disciplined Barrage is a buff.