Boeroer

Does this mean 4 chances to trigger White flames once or 4 chances to trigger it up to 4 times? The first.

Carnage does not work with the base of the Long Pain (I don't know about Instruments of Pain).

I guess in this case we have to do excessive testing - like I did with the Long Pain in PoE which didn't behave very consistently (see With Doctor build in the PoE char build subforum).

That sounds nice - but often only a part of an active ability gets suppressed. In PoE at least that worked with all modals that were mutually exclusive: switching on one would deactivate the other. But a more obvious visual feedback would indeed be nice.

Ehm... He did attach a save file. At least it looks like it...?

Dual Blunderbusses Kind Wayfarer is kind of cool because you need a hit with FoD to trigger White Flames - and with Blunderbusses you'll have 4 hit rolls instead of just one per shot. Also dual Blunderbusses with Confounding Blind, Hel Hyraf upgrade or Combusting Wounds is great (so basically everything that triggers per hit/per damage appliance). Add Driving Flight from the ranger and you'll double the projectile count. What is NOT cool with blunderbuss is an assassin. Only the first pellet that hits will receive the bonus of assassinate and/or Backstab. Maybe these thoughts can inspire.

This. I can understand that some people might think that weapon modals or modals in general belong to passives - sort of - but that doesn't mean that the case is clear. As I said: I think it's ok that they are considered to be actives because you can find reasonable arguments for it. You can also find some reasonable arguments for the passive side. So since this isn't a crystal clear case it's presumptious to say that no justification makes it acceptable. I have made my points clear and Lore Tyr did and they seem to be reasonable and thought through. Yours are basically just "but it's passive elsewhere". I won't elaborate on that weird comparison to creationism or that fruitless analogy to vegans. Only that comparisons and analogies should be used to make things clearer, not to confuse. I'm not even voting feverishly for "modals have to be actives" - it's only understandable for me they are considered such in Deadfire. Loren Tyr's suggestion to put them into a seperate category would be my preferred solution as well. It IS not so cool that proficiencies don't stack with other modals since they seem to be something different (because they are no "real" abilities but proficiencies).

Heartbeat Drumming is only melee, am I right? If not then it's surely a good combo.

Nice explanation.

Fair enough. I agree it has to be explained better.

My game just halts/freezes for a few seconds every now and then. I have a very potent hardware setup. It's all a bit annoying but not severe.

I like Aarik D.

I think the double hit and the friendly fire will get removed with a new playthrough? For me it now only hits once (the initial target). But I use it for the same reasons as you and still think it's pretty good. Awesome even. It's just a bit silly that such a huge sword does to puny base damage. One could have balanced the dps via speed instead.

I also would like it if the game came out pretty balanced. Sadly, this wasn't the case at all. Now you could discuss the following: is it better to leave it in that very unbalanced state and disappoint people or is it better to balance it with patches and disappoint people? I personally think that the later is preferable. That's because I play those games for a long time, multiple playtroughs. People who only play it once will prefer the first approach I guess. I don't think there's a way to make them all happy, but it seems that approach a) caters to more "casual" players and b) to enthusiasts/fans/hardcore fans. Without judgement that is. I as a developer would try to please the later more because I feel more connected to them. Understandable. Also understandable that somebody who thinks balance is important (Josh) decides to balance the game further if he thinks it's not well balanced yet.

I don't know why. They are building a reputation on not explaining mechanics properly. It would be very easy to fix and yet they don't. I also agree to the rest. That's the consequence. But the general implementation of stacking rules is sane and good enough in my opinion. It's a complex game - not everything can be put into easy rules without allowing big loopholes to appear. Regarding that the stacking rules are consistent and will work well - if they get explained properly. I hope they will.

@Kaylon: Then Carnage should work and it doesn't. If I remember correctly you also don't get engagement when in melee range. Good point about range (Marksman). I think it's considered ranged but has an exception so that certain melee monk abilities are allowed to execute.

I said active buffs. A bonus to a single attack is not considered a buff. Healing is not considered a buff. A buff is something that gives you bonuses for a certain duration (even if its endless). I know that Obsidian's wording isn't like that. That's why I said that this needs better explanation. However, my point is that the stacking rules are a lot more consistent than in PoE. In PoE we had Inspiring Radiance which is an active buff and stacks with everything, even itself. We had Liberating Exhortation and other examples where active buffs stacked like passives. In fact code wise they were passives attached to an active ability - very unintuitive and not easy to find out. Deadfire does this way better. The general rule (if explained properly) applies. Tell people what the rule exactly is and what is considered an active buff, give examples and you are fine. In PoE you couldn't do that because it was way to inconsistent. Deadfire is not. It's just not good yet in explaining the stacking rules properly.

You can't pick monastic unarmed tr. as a monk. Two Weapon Style applies (I assume you meant that and not 2-handed?). Driving Flight worked in beta. Didn't test post release though. The rest I don't know. I think I remember a statement from another thread a few days ago where somebody said that Swift Flurry does not work with the Long Paon, but I might be mistaken. It does not work with Carnage, maybe that's a hint. It would be best if you would open the console and test this. I would do it myself and report to you but I'm on vacation and left my computer at home as my wife ordered.

We already discussed that and the bonus of FoD is not a buff. It's a bonus that is inherent to FoD like spell bonuses were in PoE or Accurate Wounding Shot is - or like Crippling Strike has +2 PEN that doesn't get suppressed. Sure, this has to be communicated better, but it's not a fake story. Repeating that over and over agsin just because you don't like the stacking rules will not make that statement true. It just makes me respect your opinion less - which is not good because usually I like to follow your thoughts. You stated that you like the stacking rules of PoE better than those of Deadfire. Fair enough. But don't push your opinion on others like an agenda. If you point out flaws in the stacking mechanic I'm happy to read about that, but don't make it a crusade. Deadfire's stacking rules are not perfect, but they are a lot easier to understand and know less exceptions than PoE's. You might like PoE's better because they allow you more stacking, but that doesn't mean that Deadfire's are "fake" or worse. Active buffs don't stack, passives don't. The general rule is simple. You just need better explanation what is considered passive and what active - and also when this rule doesn't apply and why.

That is wrong. My first statement and shadowbunker's response: If OB Devs used similar method for classification then well we're all screwed. Which implied that my opinion on this is something that is stupid and following this will screw all people over.

Seriously, you've never heard of toggle-able passives? I have heard of a lot of things. That doesn't mean that they are the one and only acceptable truth. If Deadfire put modals into the passive category I wouldn't object. I'm sure you can make a case for that and bring forth some good arguments. But on the other hand I can also see why you might want to put it into the active compartment. I simply said that I find it "ok" that modals are actives since you have to actively trigger them. I didn't say that this is the only and undisputable way to do it. You can agree or disagree, but no need to get cheeky.

White Flames for example gets triggered if you hit or crit the target, not on graze (at least in beta).

That is correct. It's not optimal and sometimes lets you miss stuff. Especially dropped loot is often obscured.

It is actually impossible because you have none. All you present is your highly subjective opinion and your totalitarian approach to press it into everybody's heads and don't acknowledge other people's opinions on that matter. Actually a lot of people argued against your "points" that are based on narrow-mindedness and go in circles. They are the ones who made a couple of points where you haven't.

Well, removing those min/maxed (ridiculous) things should also be on the balancing list, but it shouldn't be balanced by nerfing the corresponding ability/item generally. Just take off the edges/spikes. Then it's ok. Like preventing Swift Flurry from recursive procs and AoE hits and NOT lowering its chance to trigger or removing it from ranged attacks so that it becomes just bad for normal, non-min-maxed monks.