Search the Community
Showing results for tags 'fist'.
Greetings fellow watchers I'm a little concerned about monk unarmed base damage: Short version: Monk fist base damage are basically like dual wielding 2 greatswords, with the accuracy and attack speed of daggers, while penetrating like an estoc (a weapon specialized specifically for piercing armor). It's only bludgeon yes, but up to 11 pen + scaling. Fist base damage should perhaps be more in line with 2 clubs rather than super all-round weapons? - or perhaps a timed damage increase, like empowered fist for 20-30 sec? My main gripe with the current implementation is that it makes any other heavy weapon wielding class look like wet noodles in baseline comparison, especially early game and also makes Xoti's sickle subpar. Granted, It's still early game, but feeling a bit forced to ditch any other weapon but Xoti's fists, which outshine every other party members damage currently. Long version: Pardon up front for a bit of a rant, but here goes.. I was trying to decide which weapon to use on Xoti as a contemplative (priest+monk) and while while doing some basic auto attack testing, noticed that when removing her sickle she would out damage any other wielded weapon. In fact, her unarmed fist damage would outperform any other weapon base damage on any character, even without spending a single skill point in weapon style or damage increase. (I'm talking low levels here, where the base weapon mechanics are most obvious) Xoti is the only party member who can easily beat down Eder in full fighter tank setup/gear, even out of combat. Her monk fist alone are basically like she is dual wielding 2 two-handed swords, with the accuracy and attack speed of daggers, while penetrating like an estoc (a weapon specialized specifically for piercing armor). Now, I understand that the monk traditional class fantasy is to be kick-ass throwing punches and such (which I personally always found a bit out of place in a setting with heavy armor, weaponry and firearms - but hey, it's all "soul magic", so oh well) My main gripe with the current implementation is that it makes any other heavy weapon wielding class seem a bit like wet noodles in comparison, especially early game and also makes Xoti's sickle subpar. Ex, my (fairly high acc) ranger with greatsword + two-handed style + proficiency (savage attack) can hardly hit/dent Eder at all, while the bare-fisted Xoti happily hammers him down in seconds. I know greatswords are very dependent and best on soft targets etc, it just "feels" and looks wrong in relation. I'd agree that the base unarmed damage of monks fists should be slightly higher than default, maybe on par with a pair of clubs - but not on par with two-handers, and certainly not with nearly twice the penetration values, without using any ability. Who Would like to attempt to punch a guy/gal wearing full plate? ouch.. I find it is (sadly) often the case that monk is implemented as an all-round super high damage dealing class in games - why not have it depend more on sustained and precise but lower-damage hits, a lot of interrupts/stuns with build-up kill moves to represent the high martial skill of a fighting monk? Very effective vs softer targets. The game already has most of this - but on top of the out of place high base damage/pen on fists. Yes, it's bludgeon, but what does it matter if the pen can go to 11 (and scaling up) Equippable knuckle-dusters to add a +pen or two which can gear-scale slightly could perhaps have been a thing, but probably too drastic change. Maybe have a monk specific unarmed passive to specialize in fists, so weapon wielding monks do not feel like missing out on the class main bonuses. Heck, I'd even be totally fine with the high fist damage if it was a baseline 20-30 sec ability, something like "soul empowered fists" for a nice damage burst period (essentially like instant spiritual weapon summon) - which would also allow for weapon monks to deal out some knuckle-justice once in awhile.. I'm guessing some of the explanations might go along the lines of "gear-scaling and legendary bonuses on weapons will offset this later in the game", but that is not really comforting if the underlying base seem unrealistic and skewed in this case. There must be other ways to make it seem less "implausible". The PoE combat system is otherwise doing a nice weapon/armor simulation on a base mechanical level (which is awesome!) but the unarmed monk dmg feel a bit like Fist of the North Star thrown into the mix. I generally love PoE for some of it's emphasis on good martial weapon combat, where you select the best tools for the job, consider weapon/armor types etc. I really want to like the monk class (usually don't most fantasy games) without it feeling OP, and do love it so far, the ability path & wound mechanic, just wish it not to overshadow the more "realistic" weapon wielders and weapon type decisions. Anyways, enough of a rant, and perhaps things will balance out over time, enjoying the game so far after the increased PoTD dif in 1.1, hope everyone else is too Sidenote: two-handed greatswords should probably have +1 pen due to the non-tapered blade mass (and since no +pen modal option, as well as the fact that it does not have longer reach, which would be it's main advantage)
I discovered this playing as a monk and this class benefits from this the most but it can be used by all one-handed style champions. If you use two weapons or no weapons at all (two fists) accuracy of both is lowered if you use only one one-handed weapon in primary (right) hand you have increased accuracy but if you place just one weapon in off hand and leave right hand empty your right hand fist is listed as a primary weapon but the accuracy of both hands primary and secondary benefits from one-handed accuracy bonus. In this situation normal attacks only utilize your equipped secondary weapon ignoring your right fist so You don't get to actually attack with a fist as if you were fighting with two weapons but when executing full attacks (i.e. from monk's torment's reach) you get to utilize both hands for damage as if you were double wielding. If you would place the same one-handed weapon in your right hand your full attack would only attack once. Simply switching a weapon from the right hand to the left hand without changing anything else gives unintentional bonus. This benefits monks the most of course as their fists hit like a hammer but every player who decides to use one-handed style will benefit from this while performing full attacks. As to how to deal with this bug I have a suggestion that equipping only one weapon in off hand should count as using two weapons style with all accuracy penalties in place. It will open the possibility (for a monk mostly) to use fist and a weapon simultaneously as a two weapon style. To be clear I don't consider using weapon and a fist as two weapons as an exploit but rather as a feature that apparently isn't here unfortunately. I strongly suggest that rather than removing fist attack from full attack in the above situation you would resolve this problem as I suggested above. Cheers