Beta IV - General Feedback [The Good // The Bad]

[Soulmojo]

Everyone getting weapon styles cheapens Fighters and force specialization on everyone.

 

If you use weapons you will pick one of the styles, absolutely no reason not to. Now you'll effectively be shoehorned into a single fighting style. Before you could dual wield for greater dps and then grab a shield when you want more deflection or single wield when you want accuracy. Pure flexibility and freedom. No one was complaining that their Berserker/BleakWalker was doing bad damage dual wielding sabres. Now you will spend the point on a fighting style and stick with that to the exclusion of others because you spent a point on getting it.

 

Now your dual wielding will be 20% faster than before which was not needed. Adding a Fighter only gets you a stance, disciplined strikes and regen. All are good things but anyone can get the fighting styles now which cheapens the fighter.

 

They do need to give everyone Gunner and Marksmen so that Rangers aren't exclusive to them

 

I am pleased that they finally fixed the Monk unarmed damage bug where a save/load wiped it out.

 

 

I don't agree that it cheapens fighter.

I think these changes instead outlines its lack of usefull capabilites the class had in the first place.

 

Fighter is the only melee class which doesn't have a single full attack abilitiy.

Fighter is the only melee class which only have buffs and no real variation of offensive abilites. 

Knockdown, a more expensive knockdown (useless), and into the fray (useless).

Aoe capability? none. Only clear out but that is a mid-end game ability.

Probably  with a short range 120° arc and low damage and 3-4 resource cost. Which I will not use.

The self buffs are eating up the resource pool, because those are 15 sec duration.

I will not go for intellect because the class has no aoe capability. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here but if you take away it's passives - which happened in this patch - and you get a half class at best. 

Edited April 3, 2018 by Soulmojo

[jaydee.2k]

Nobody else in here with camera issues?

Even when i disable smart camera scrolling on the edges doesn't work like before.

I have to spin my mouse like crazy to get the screen moving. There must be something

wrong with it. I can not play when the camera is like this. I don't want to use smart camera...

[JerekKruger]

I never use edge scrolling (WASD all the way) so haven't noticed anything.

 

Is this map exploration mode or in the party level mode by the way? I noticed that the exploration mode has follow toggle which, if you don't unselect it, will make it so that every time you issue a command the camera will zoom to your location and follow you again.

[M4xw0lf]

Nobody else in here with camera issues?

Even when i disable smart camera scrolling on the edges doesn't work like before.

I have to spin my mouse like crazy to get the screen moving. There must be something

wrong with it. I can not play when the camera is like this. I don't want to use smart camera...

Has edge scrolling speed in the options menu changed? I don't use smart camera mostly, and I don't have issues with the scrolling.

[JerekKruger]

Yeah I also doubled the scroll speed in the options menu as the default is far too slow for me.

[dunehunter]

 

Everyone getting weapon styles cheapens Fighters and force specialization on everyone.

 

If you use weapons you will pick one of the styles, absolutely no reason not to. Now you'll effectively be shoehorned into a single fighting style. Before you could dual wield for greater dps and then grab a shield when you want more deflection or single wield when you want accuracy. Pure flexibility and freedom. No one was complaining that their Berserker/BleakWalker was doing bad damage dual wielding sabres. Now you will spend the point on a fighting style and stick with that to the exclusion of others because you spent a point on getting it.

 

Now your dual wielding will be 20% faster than before which was not needed. Adding a Fighter only gets you a stance, disciplined strikes and regen. All are good things but anyone can get the fighting styles now which cheapens the fighter.

 

They do need to give everyone Gunner and Marksmen so that Rangers aren't exclusive to them

 

I am pleased that they finally fixed the Monk unarmed damage bug where a save/load wiped it out.

 

 

I don't agree that it cheapens fighter.

I think these changes instead outlines its lack of usefull capabilites the class had in the first place.

 

Fighter is the only melee class which doesn't have a single full attack abilitiy.

Fighter is the only melee class which only have buffs and no real variation of offensive abilites. 

Knockdown, a more expensive knockdown (useless), and into the fray (useless).

Aoe capability? none. Only clear out but that is a mid-end game ability.

Probably  with a short range 120° arc and low damage and 3-4 resource cost. Which I will not use.

The self buffs are eating up the resource pool, because those are 15 sec duration.

I will not go for intellect because the class has no aoe capability. 

 

Correct me if I'm wrong here but if you take away it's passives - which happened in this patch - and you get a half class at best. 

 

 

Fighters have Cleave stance, it is the best aoe ability in the game right now, and u have access to it at lvl 3.

[theBalthazar]

Yes but the main point of his argumentation is :

 

The feeling of choice is down with this beta (was already bad in fact, but it is more seeing now). And it is true. You waiting a new beta with much promises. And you finish with few classes who have almost less than before.

 

Casters side is OK (at least two good new passives). Melee side is catastrophic.

 

Single class, single class...

Yes. You have one or two more possibilities.

 

But overall, at least 1 or 2 unique talents per line are missing. Abilities like Retribution, cleave stance, aegis of loyalty etc.

 

This is true : I am pretty sure than all experimented players pick 95 % of "shared" talents when they build the fighter... Yes...

 

Line 1 ? Knock down.

Line 2 ? Stances etc etc.

 

Becoming obvious choices. Even for single class. Specifically for melee (fighter is the worse)

 

I can to be provocative : Why leave the choice, if they are not really. There is a name for that :

 

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hobson%27s_choice

 

There is not this feeling in POE1 because you have a free big pool of talents. So yes, there is MORE talents in POE1 than in POE2 multiclass. It is sure. Class VS Multiclass (Don't stack all abilities of POE2, it is not the debate. Debate is Player's choice with ONE character, so one or two classes).

Edited April 3, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Soulmojo]

My main argument wasn't that.

 

My main argument was fighter abilities were low yield and concentrated on auto attacking. 

 

Knockdown is only excelent when you use it with a 2handed weapon due to it's primary attack nature.

 

 

Fighters have Cleave stance, it is the best aoe ability in the game right now, and u have access to it at lvl 3.

 

 

Considering that it does full attack as an aoe it is the best yes. I understand that if you make a chain reaction you could wipe everyone around you.

But what if you fail to make that killing blow? What if enemies are too much spread out? What happens when the enemy decides to simply not attack you and move away?

 

Its upgrade is only good if you are melee engaged by a lot enemies. which is not the case most of the time (1-3 tops) unless you play a weak glasscannon but then you die a horrible death.

 

I didn't use the cleaving stance extensively because it felt too much rng. So I'm seriously asking these questions Dune. Could you ellaborate how it is good other than theoretical value? 

 

#Edit# 

Saw two video about cleaving stance. And I'm still not convinced. Maybe if you cast a pull of eora you can pull it off. But otherwise it is unrealistic.

Edited April 3, 2018 by Soulmojo

[dunehunter]

My main argument wasn't that.

 

My main argument was fighter abilities were low yield and concentrated on auto attacking. 

 

Knockdown is only excelent when you use it with a 2handed weapon due to it's primary attack nature.

 

 

Fighters have Cleave stance, it is the best aoe ability in the game right now, and u have access to it at lvl 3.

 

 

Considering that it does full attack as an aoe it is the best yes. I understand that if you make a chain reaction you could wipe everyone around you.

But what if you fail to make that killing blow? What if enemies are too much spread out? What happens when the enemy decides to simply not attack you and move away?

 

Its upgrade is only good if you are melee engaged by a lot enemies. which is not the case most of the time (1-3 tops) unless you play a weak glasscannon but then you die a horrible death.

 

I didn't use the cleaving stance extensively because it felt too much rng. So I'm seriously asking these questions Dune. Could you ellaborate how it is good other than theoretical value? 

 

#Edit# 

Saw two video about cleaving stance. And I'm still not convinced. Maybe if you cast a pull of eora you can pull it off. But otherwise it is unrealistic.

 

You will need to multiclass to make it work honestly, with some teleport ability or barbarian sprint and some damage bursting abilities it will work, otherwise might need a lot micromanagement to land kill blow and position yourself.

Edited April 3, 2018 by dunehunter

[theBalthazar]

often have two attacks when I kill someone. Worth it.

 

Personnally my problem is more +5 of accuracy. Normally for a dual for a boss for example. Except there is an awful stacking rule. If you have a paladin in your team. Your stance is useless.

 

But Cleave stance is OK when you have 2 or more people around you.

Edited April 3, 2018 by theBalthazar

[Soulmojo]

Ok. I will try it out. I still left some gametime from my last Monk/Paladin playthrough.

[DigitalCrack]

Rangers talents and abilities arent very interesting PL 1-5. Its mostly pet passives with a few uninspired actives.. Which would be fine if it was only the base ranger but none of the subclasses shake it up at all which is a bit dissapointing. Considering both the stalker and ghost heart have such cool concepts but make zero difference to the talent tree. Like ghost heart could totally get access to a few cipher abilities at certain levels (like trickster) and it would fit thematically and make that sub more interesting. Heck you could even make it so the cipher abilities are actually pet actives for your ghost pet.

Edited April 3, 2018 by DigitalCrack

[theBalthazar]

Pet Ranger is weaker than his POE1 version.

 

It is strange because, it is an eternal repetition. In version 2.0++ there is a boost of power for ranger. Because before he was bad.

 

Here, I think Obsidian doesn't feel this lack of might.

 

Nerf of Pet.

Ultra nerf of overtime damage (40 % now...)

No penetration boost

Subclasses are all complicated to play or with high malus, or too restrictive.

 

He have no specificities except tank with his pet.

[DigitalCrack]

Pet Ranger is weaker than his POE1 version.

 

It is strange because, it is an eternal repetition. In version 2.0++ there is a boost of power for ranger. Because before he was bad.

 

Here, I think Obsidian doesn't feel this lack of might.

 

Nerf of Pet.

Ultra nerf of overtime damage (40 % now...)

No penetration boost

Subclasses are all complicated to play or with high malus, or too restrictive.

 

He have no specificities except tank with his pet.

Again a lot of this could have been a non issue if they had given rangers subs that actually changed or added to their talents. Like I said Ranger woukd have benefitted from subs more in line with trickster then "Your pet is a ghost" and thats its.. Even though you could do so much more. Ghost Heart cant even use the heal pet active but yet its still a choice in his talent tree? Why not replace it with something he can use at least.

[M4xw0lf]

I really miss the carnage AoE circle. I have the feeling my 1h+shield marauder almost never triggered carnage attacks, while my great sword brute regularly hits everything in his proximity.

[jaydee.2k]

 

Nobody else in here with camera issues?

Even when i disable smart camera scrolling on the edges doesn't work like before.

I have to spin my mouse like crazy to get the screen moving. There must be something

wrong with it. I can not play when the camera is like this. I don't want to use smart camera...

Has edge scrolling speed in the options menu changed? I don't use smart camera mostly, and I don't have issues with the scrolling.

 

 

Yeah i have it on 2,5 and when it reacts its fine but there is most of the time a delay until the scrolling begins. Even with wasd.

Sometimes it takes up to 2-3 seconds until scrolling kicks in. This is driving me nuts. It was all absolutely fine until backer beta update 2.

It must have something to do with the smart camera updates... Hope this will get fixed.

[anfoglia]

I finished a run of Beta 4 last night. My general thoughts:

 

+ Combat Speed Slider: the interface is fiddly, but this is a god-send. The slowest setting makes the action much more legible for me. It's almost like playing a semi-turn based game like Grandia or something. I imagine the faster settings are just as much a relief for people who hate waiting for things to happen.

 

+ Graphics/performance: this is a beautiful-looking game. I can't wait to see more of the world.

 

+ Single-class buffs: the extra ability point makes a world of difference. In other builds, multiclassing was more appealing, even when it wasn't strictly stronger, because you had so many more (and more interesting) choices. Now single-class feels properly good and strong, and multiclassing feels like an alternative you might pursue for an off-the-beaten path character concept.

 

+ Wizards: they're really good, imo.

 

+ Penetration: I think this is in a better place now. It's still quite clear when you've got the wrong damage type and need to switch things up, but the values are now friendly enough that it no longer feels like stacking PEN is the name of the game.

 

- Ship combat: it's not fun. I am confused as to what kinds of tactics you can employ other than "get in range and hope you hit them harder than they hit you." I didn't try boarding on this playthrough, but I have to imagine it would be difficult to close all the way without taking critical damage. The FTL influence on the "report to" function doesn't translate all that well. In FTL, the whole point was that all these things were happening at once, and you had to respond under pressure and with good timing (whether for sequencing attacks or opening/closing airlocks). Here, you can only ever do one thing at a time. You can't send some people to board while others work the cannons. It's not even clear to me that, in sequence, you can both apply significant damage and get in position to board, so everything sort of sticks around trading volleys. If there are tactics to this minigame that I'm missing, they need to be clearer. If it's as limited as it appears, then I have to say I prefer the straightforward rock-paper-scissors of Suikoden 1's war minigame: at least those were fast.

 

- Missing UI info: for example, it would be helpful to see what a weapon's damage type/properties are from the proficiency screen, as those are significant factors in choosing proficiency.

 

I'll also join in the requests for an option to pin enemy info windows during combat.

[vanyel54]

Ok new run finished with the beta 4 so new comments. Overall the game is way better with this new version.

Good work Obsidian !

+ Overall the casting times is better. There is still some things weird but let's hope it will be adjusted.

Some examples:

      - Paladin's glorious beacon (3s cast/3 s recovery for 8s duration => you gain 2s of active effect)

      - Barbaric Yell recovery of 8s !

      - Essential Phantom cast of 6s

      etc...

+ Single class is better with this little advantage of levelling

+ Might is back !

+ Speed slider : life changer for me

+ Empower UI os way better (graphically). Let's hop it's well 

= A lot of spells have a ridiculous radius (well vs POE1).

= Lack of icons for abilities (bull's will etc...). 

Ok it's a beta but strange to see all the work done for the game and still seeing the same generic icons on a lot of abilities

= Inspiration / Affliction

Obsidian want to simplifies the system. But it will be hard to make the link between the affliction resistance and the different effects this for the casual players.

I prefer the system of POE1 when you see directly resistance to the effect (paralyzed etc...). Here you have to memorize the link between affliction and effects.

= It could be useful to introduce something to distinguish family spells (colors, icons ?)

= Resolve still a dump stats Well nothing new !

- Weapon proficencies 

We are always forced to choose them and frankly i am not convinced by many of them. Losing recovery for penetration seems not a good deal for me.

Oh and the activation/deactivation is buggy as hell

- The CC spells (slicken, calling the world's maw etc...) must be cast faster to have an interest.

- So we get some passive abilities for all the class but:

      - some levels choice are really poor. Choice between bad possibilities is not a good one. 

      - no range passive for the casters doesn't make sens to me

      - but we have unarmed for everyone. Strange.... really strange.

      - once again, we see all the work done on this game and so few new abilities/talents. Lack of imagination or fear of the balancing issue ?

      - uncanny luck => 5% hit to crits => What a joke !

- - The ship combat is 1) not fun 2) slow has hell 

But the nude crew during the boarding was fun to watch

- - Inventory icon arrow => Well i have to live with if but i still hate it

 

[Roby Atadero]

 

 

Nobody else in here with camera issues?

Even when i disable smart camera scrolling on the edges doesn't work like before.

I have to spin my mouse like crazy to get the screen moving. There must be something

wrong with it. I can not play when the camera is like this. I don't want to use smart camera...

Has edge scrolling speed in the options menu changed? I don't use smart camera mostly, and I don't have issues with the scrolling.

 

 

Yeah i have it on 2,5 and when it reacts its fine but there is most of the time a delay until the scrolling begins. Even with wasd.

Sometimes it takes up to 2-3 seconds until scrolling kicks in. This is driving me nuts. It was all absolutely fine until backer beta update 2.

It must have something to do with the smart camera updates... Hope this will get fixed.

 

 

There is definitely an ease in on all of the panning but it SHOULD be really quick (half second maybe). Do you mind noting what your frame-rate is when this happens (is it extremely high or extremely low?). And if possible, you mind grabbing a video of what you are seeing?

[PatrioticChief]

I still think the lack of early game passives for some classes is very annoying. Especially fighter. Fanatic (bleak walker/beserker) build is loads of fun though. Experimented with that today. No dumps either. 

[M4xw0lf]

One thing about soul annihilation (besides the possibly bugged damage calculation - https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/96713-soul-annihilation-damage-is-weird/):

It somehow feels wrong from a lore perspective that a miss consumes all your focus anyway. The way I imagine it, the Cipher puts the collected soul energy into his weapon somehow, and if he fails to connect with the enemy (so really a miss, not a graze), it doesn't feel right that this energy should simply 'evaporate', right?

Of course, from a balance perspective it wouldn't be really viable to keep all the focus until you hit something, but maybe you could just lose a fraction of the focus you put into an unsuccessful strike (you put effort into the attack itself, too, after all), or lose it over time, if you continue attacking with soul annihilation without hitting or grazing.

Edited April 5, 2018 by M4xw0lf

[dunehunter]

 

 

Nobody else in here with camera issues?

Even when i disable smart camera scrolling on the edges doesn't work like before.

I have to spin my mouse like crazy to get the screen moving. There must be something

wrong with it. I can not play when the camera is like this. I don't want to use smart camera...

Has edge scrolling speed in the options menu changed? I don't use smart camera mostly, and I don't have issues with the scrolling.

 

 

Yeah i have it on 2,5 and when it reacts its fine but there is most of the time a delay until the scrolling begins. Even with wasd.

Sometimes it takes up to 2-3 seconds until scrolling kicks in. This is driving me nuts. It was all absolutely fine until backer beta update 2.

It must have something to do with the smart camera updates... Hope this will get fixed.

 

 

Same here, disabled smart camera doesn't fix this, there is like 0.5 second delay or something like that when u try to move screen. There was no delay in the previous patch, I personally don't like this change(if this is surpposed, not a bug) and I feel it uncomfortable to move screen now.

Edited April 5, 2018 by dunehunter

[M4xw0lf]

A question on the 'combat focus' ability: description says you gain concentration at the start of a fight, but how much and for how long? Is it a flat bonus, or based on your stats, and is it for the whole encounter or for limited time? Could be a very good or very meh ability.

[AndreaColombo]

Concentration stays on until you’re hit with an Interrupt attack. For casters I think it’s a pretty good talent.

[dunehunter]

A question on the 'combat focus' ability: description says you gain concentration at the start of a fight, but how much and for how long? Is it a flat bonus, or based on your stats, and is it for the whole encounter or for limited time? Could be a very good or very meh ability.

 

Concentration has no duration, you have it and you have it until the end of combat or get netrulized by interruption. And you get 1 layer of Concentration with combat focus.