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Beta IV - General Feedback [The Good // The Bad]

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I think one easy fix for resource pools like Zeal or Guile is to have them regenerate points very slowly either based on time or damage inflicted/taken. It would be nice in prolonged battles to have a point of Guile returned, for instance.

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I've already posted my initial impressions in the other thread.

 

Some more feedback after spending more time with this build:

 

  • Combat pacing feels a lot better. The speed slider was a great idea.
  • Casting times feel much better, though I haven't tried pure casters yet.
  • The "tak" sound it makes every time I select a dialog option is annoying. I'd rather get rid of it. Especially bad when going through dialog quickly with numbers—tak tak tak!
  • None of our suggestions for the customizable UI made it in :(
  • Audio is so much better in this build! Footsteps may be a tad too loud, but environmental FX add a lot to the immersion. (Ah, to be back in the good old times of EAX and A3D...!)
Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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  • The "tak" sound it makes every time I select a dialog option is annoying. I'd rather get rid of it. Especially bad when going through dialog quickly with numbers—tak tak tak!

 

Agreed. That enervating noise needs to die in a fire! 

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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Overall the "feel" of the game is dramatically improved. Like, this feels like a release candidate. A release candidate that still has room for polish, but the feel is there.

 

This is my list so far:

 

character creation:
 
Nobody who isn't a ranger can pick ranged talents, which is kinda annoying -- make Gunner, etc. open talents also
 
multiclass characters need more first level choices 
 
the ai could use more preformatted stuff; there should be an AI preset for each class pairing (i.e., one for Swashbuckler, one for Herald, etc)
 
mental binding could still use improvement -- six seconds effect, 3 sec cast, 3 sec recovery! 
 
it would be really helpful if there were some numbers on the weapon proficiencies in character creation.
 
It would be really helpful if we could see the stats for the equipped weapon in mouseover just like we can see armor and defenses.
 
Would be nice if we could copy paste behavior AI sets. 
 
It would be nice if we could script weapon switching and weapon modals in the AI
 
The eyepatch hat doesn't line the eyepatch up right with the wood elf head
 
edit: the Ascendant subclass can't pick "has Ascendant buff" in the AI scripting as a conditional to determine when to cast powers
Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy
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Yes I forgot the thing with Casters in Good Points.

 

It is far better now. There are always few stranges choices (somes 6sec +3sec non legit like essential phantom) but "feel" far more enjoyable in the course of the fight.

Edited by theBalthazar
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  • The "tak" sound it makes every time I select a dialog option is annoying. I'd rather get rid of it. Especially bad when going through dialog quickly with numbers—tak tak tak

Agreed. That enervating noise needs to die in a fire! 

...I like the tik sound. 

 

tik, tik, tik, tik, tik, tik

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This may be just because I got owned, but the Engwithan Titan fight getting a bunch of Sand Blights spawning halfway through is...not great. In general I find wave combat to be unenjoyable.

 

Seconding most of the praise others have offered. 

 

This is obviously a reaction to all the comments about the Titan fight being too easy, however, I think they've overcompensated a bit.

 

Playing on Classic with Critical Path scaling up only turned on (so this fight should be unaffected) once the Titan gets down to Near Death I have 4 sand blights turn up, at least one of which (if not 2) are greater sand blights. Their first actions are to cast Sirocco, which is a medium sized AoE that deals an average of 17 damage every 3 seconds for 15 seconds (and applies a debuff). Unless you can interrupt or run away your party is going to die very quickly.

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I probably shouldn't bring it up because the fight doesn't need to be more difficult at this point, however you can spawn the titan and pull it to the powder barrels to get a big head start and separate it from the blights. After the titan goes down you can still pull at least one blight away. After that the fight is just about running away from a couple Sirocco and downing the remaining blights.

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I probably shouldn't bring it up because the fight doesn't need to be more difficult at this point, however you can spawn the titan and pull it to the powder barrels to get a big head start and separate it from the blights. After the titan goes down you can still pull at least one blight away. After that the fight is just about running away from a couple Sirocco and downing the remaining blights.

Yeah, I did pull him off. Almost got him. For the next fight I will actually equip blunt weapons and try the barrel trick:-). Cheesing my way thourgh it. 

 

I always find the "spawn additional enemies" in boss fights to be a cheap move. While it is something I won't mind on subsequent playthroughs, it is frustrating to see it happen for the first time with no prior indication. 


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In response to the OP: I like where things are at now. Casters are more balanced with melee. The dps of a single class evoker makes it a viable option and it does what an evoker should do which is outperform most others in aoe dps. The ship combat is much better. The bad: rogue damages could go back to what they were. Also there's a squeaky bird noise that makes me turn around to see what my dog is whining about only to realize it's a weird game sound.

 

Addressing the rate of recovery on non-rangers guns etc. and other non-class skills: I think what some of  the "lack of choice" comments are about is bringing back the reduced cross class abilities like in the first one. Gunner would fit well in that category. Give non-rangers the choice to get half the boost to reload that rangers do. 

Edited by djinnxy

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Lol, Obsidian breakdown with blights.

 

I can't move : p Infinite recovery time.

 

Josh : "Ah you want difficulty ?...Good... Wait Beta number 4."

 

I was never completely dead (all my team lol) since first days of first beta, snif...

 

tricky. Impossible to react in time on the first try.

Edited by theBalthazar

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I need to play more (and lot of stuff look really nice now, and sounds nice too, though the footsteps are too loud.)

 

My main gripe is that the multi-classing rhythm from earlier betas has been thrown off. Level 1 choices are not good, at least not for Fighters while multi-classed. Instead I'm forced to pick some garbage until something nice opens up. And this wonky multi-class rhythm keeps on stuttering my character building.

The extra passives are nice, but they are extremely generic, and many times I really wish a few of them were more suited to the classes.

All in all, I must say that level 1 to 5 as a multi-classed character has taken a turn for the worse, as in more unfun.

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*** "The words of someone who feels ever more the ent among saplings when playing CRPGs" ***

 

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My main gripe is that the multi-classing rhythm from earlier betas has been thrown off. Level 1 choices are not good, at least not for Fighters while multi-classed. Instead I'm forced to pick some garbage until something nice opens up. And this wonky multi-class rhythm keeps on stuttering my character building.

The extra passives are nice, but they are extremely generic, and many times I really wish a few of them were more suited to the classes.

All in all, I must say that level 1 to 5 as a multi-classed character has taken a turn for the worse, as in more unfun.

 

 

Same feel here. Totally true.

 

Few "lines" are awful for few classes. Line 3 or 4 in Fighter tree (I don't remember exactly but this is level 9 in Fighter multiclass). Difficult to pick up a good thing which is not "garbage" like you said : p

 

Give the impression to... water down few lines. It is strange.

Edited by theBalthazar
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The worst thing about this update: I picked up an Abandoned Cat on the beach, but no cat appeared in my inventory. This is a totally unacceptable bug!

 

(In all seriousness, though, I agree that this update mostly feels great and much closer to a release version. I even tried out ship combat, although I can't say I understood what was going on.)

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My main gripe is that the multi-classing rhythm from earlier betas has been thrown off. Level 1 choices are not good, at least not for Fighters while multi-classed. Instead I'm forced to pick some garbage until something nice opens up. And this wonky multi-class rhythm keeps on stuttering my character building.

The extra passives are nice, but they are extremely generic, and many times I really wish a few of them were more suited to the classes.

All in all, I must say that level 1 to 5 as a multi-classed character has taken a turn for the worse, as in more unfun.

 

Same feel here. Totally true.

 

Few "lines" are awful for few classes. Line 3 or 4 in Fighter tree (I don't remember exactly but this is level 9 in Fighter multiclass). Difficult to pick up a good thing which is not "garbage" like you said : p

 

Give the impression to... water down few lines. It is strange.

Aren’t fighter got Charge at PL 4 now?

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I probably shouldn't bring it up because the fight doesn't need to be more difficult at this point, however you can spawn the titan and pull it to the powder barrels to get a big head start and separate it from the blights. After the titan goes down you can still pull at least one blight away. After that the fight is just about running away from a couple Sirocco and downing the remaining blights.

Yeah, I did pull him off. Almost got him. For the next fight I will actually equip blunt weapons and try the barrel trick:-). Cheesing my way thourgh it. 

 

I always find the "spawn additional enemies" in boss fights to be a cheap move. While it is something I won't mind on subsequent playthroughs, it is frustrating to see it happen for the first time with no prior indication. 

 

Well, battle escalation is good. However I agree that reinforcements should be announced somehow. By the boss calling for example. Just a floating text above his head, : "Come to my bidding, come my home sand worms." something like that. When he is half HP. Then, second calling, then one turn or 3s, then they come. Or make it like a Dungeon master/Narrator announcing a message. Watch Darkest Dungeon narrator for inspiration.

Edited by gGeorg
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I dislike the way penetration now completetle removes the benefits of slow heavy hitting attacks against armor.

On top of that the penetraion values feel very unimmersive.

A pollaxe probably the best weapon against plate armor in the middle ages (way more effective then estoc in reality) is on par with a rapier and a hatchet?

 

I'm not saying you need to revert it back but i feel that the pen values need to be ajusted.

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Aren’t fighter got Charge at PL 4 now? 

 

 

Yes. But active abilities have now a problem. A problem found by Boeroer : You have a pool. So, we can admit (except if there is a tactical change to use, often with a priest buff/wizard afflictions with all theyr tools) that cumulate active abilities past 1 or 2 is a pure loss. Sadly.

 

That why a "passive-active" abilitie is OK. (like disciplined strike, active overtime + Another active ability like knock down is possible ) But all the rest is problematic.

 

So physical classes suffer more of poor choices in term of Passives abilities. Because quickly, you have already your disciplined strike + Your Mule kick.

 

I prophesy a HIGH risk of re-train, when you hit level 20. Why ? 

 

Because, with this system, perhaps there are better active abilities level 14-16, mule kick perhaps become useless. ETC ETC^^

So, Active abilities have this problem. It is perhaps a false investment. Or a starting investment.

 

In all cases : If in the same power source you have more than one pure active ability, this becoming a loss (FoD, Mule Kick etc.)

 

Other point, charge seems to be buggy or it is me ? I click on this and nothing happened. (Never used in POE1 too so... perhaps it is me : p)

Edited by theBalthazar

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-The empower UI is really great! It looks as important as it is, now.

-The improved tooltips/descriptions are much appreciated

 

-Barbarian:

-Carnage could really use an AOE circle like in Pillars 1.

-The damage from Carnage doesn't count towards Focus generation when multiclassing with Cipher. This makes Witch feel weak compared to Mindstalker (cipher + rogue) or Psyblade (cipher + fighter). Making Carnage generate focus (even partially) would go a long way.

 

-Rogue:

-Streetfighter changes are great! They might need to be toned down a bit, but as-is it really feels worth it to take more Constitution as a Streetfighter.

-All offensive abilities interrupting on hit feels great, it adds a lot to the identity of the class.

-Riposte's tooltip is still really vague- it doesn't feel worth taking when you don't know how often it'll proc.

 

-Cipher:

-Focus gain feels appropriate on a single-class Cipher now.

-The update to Draining Whip's tooltip makes a huge difference in understanding how it works. Thanks!

-Body Attunement's buff doesn't last as long as its debuff. Is this intentional? Feels weird to me.

-Wild Leech is too short/weak to feel worth the investment in focus + cast time. The tooltip also doesn't include duration.

Edited by Cheston
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I will only pick one active ability, maybe two and the rest is passives. I liked the old per-encounter system better.

 

1. Complain on the forums about class-locked passives

2. Game is changed so that everyone gets a lot (?) more passives

3. Only take passives with one or two active abilities because it's superior from a min/max perspective

4. ???

5. Profit

 

I'll reserve my final judgement until the patch is downloaded and I had a look, but this is exactly what I was predicting.

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A major balance concern to me is that a lot of abilities don't really scale with class power level, making multiclassing a no brainer and multiclass character weapon damage way over the top.

 

"Power levels" have mostly worked out for damage spells, making these weaker when you multiclass even though ironically you can't stack that many bonuses to spell damage when multiclassing anyway.

 

OTOH passives and weapon abilities like sneak attack/carnage/flames of devotion/soul whip etc don't really scale with class level and result in unbalanced characters swinging for 150+ damage level 6 with basic gear. Spell damage or single class weapon damage dealers (which seem more or less balanced in relation to each other) can't keep up.

 

Something needs to be done about this, although simply scaling these abilities with class power level is a bad solution because:

a) It will make them underwhelming at low level

b) it will probably make them OP if you can stack a bunch of +power level bonuses on top

 

Maybe certain passives just need to be weaker if you multiclass, idk.

 

Another approach would be to rebalance everything to the same level of OPness adding some stronger higher level passives for the single class characters and adding more sources of stacking spell damage (currently it's mostly the rare +power level bonuses).  Mobs would need to be buffed quite heavily in this case as well though.

 

Yet another approach would be to tweak damage formula so that there are diminishing returns for stacking damage bonuses (you need to account for lashes too though).

Edited by MadDemiurg

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