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Beta IV - General Feedback [The Good // The Bad]

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Anyone else hate that slots for cypher abilities appear even if you haven't selected a single ability for that level? It just clogs up the UI. Waving over it, having nothing there, and faded text on the side not in the box, it looks almost like a bug its so ugly. 

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Yes, me. Same for chanters.

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Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

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And other casters. Agreed it looks bad.


"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke

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When comparing abilites with each other one has to be aware of the advantages of passives over actives. For example Constant Recovery is a passive while Exhalted Endurance is an active ability. A passive will stack with everything (won't get suppressed) while the robust regeneration may get supressed by other active healing effects. I'm only assuming this (did not test this case yet) - but given the general stacking rules of Deadfire this may happen. THat can be a reason why the bonuses of passives are generally lower than those of active abilities.

 

Also (in this case), the Robust inspiration will get removed by an appropriate affliction. Constant Recovery will not get cancelled by anything.

 

That's a valid point, but I'm still not convinced. Constant Recovery and Ancient Memory where both nerfed in PoE from being unlimited to a limited time. Now Ancient Memory is unlimited again in the shape of a chant and, according to the tool tip, heals more than Constant Recovery distributed over the whole party (my Constant Recovery is stated to heal 6 hp/3s while Ancient Memory states 1 hp / 1s - that comes to 3hp/s vs 5hp/s when seen from the party's perspective). I don't follow the logic of Ancient Memory being fine unlimited while Constant Recovery is still limited.

 

Weapon & Shield Style gives you +6 deflection (and even more reflex) while it forces you to wear a shield (loosing dps) - while Superior Deflection stacks with it and has no drawbacks. But I agree that +4 is laughable. Why nerf it from 5 to 4 in the first place? It's like somebody said "Whooha look at that! +5? Let's stomp this overpowered thingy down to 4, that will balance things out a bit and teach it a lesson, show it some modesty!".

 

That's certainly one way to look at it, but you can also consider how much stats are added in total. Weapon & Shield style is available from lvl 1 and grants you +6 Deflection and Shield bonus to Reflex, which amounts to at least +10 Reflex depending on shield, resulting in at least +16. The tool tip doesn't properly explain the workings of Deep Faith, but I guess regardless of dispositions, you get at least +2 to every defense, which amounts to at least +8, more likely +12.

 

Superior Deflection on the other hand comes much later, grants only +4 and has a much greater competition (like the affliction resistances and other stuff).

 

My idea of balancing is that passives that are available later should grant more useful bonuses, and that regardless of multiclass combination, there should always be a proper incentive to pick one passive over the other. I think this is simply not the case for superior deflection; the argument to take it should definitely not be that it still stacks with the others after you got them first (which is the case once you decide on using a shield, and that's bad design in my opinion).

 

IMHO, Weapon and Shield Style should only confer the shield bonus to reflex, and superior deflection should be a lvl1 fighter ability and buffed in order to compete with Deep Faith, so that a Crusader has an actual choice between the two.

 

In general, I don't like the overlap of the passives at all, since they only serve to blur their purpose. The increase in movement speed of all classes versus the one from the monk is another example for this.

 

I'm all for passives, but balance them properly against each other when they have overlap or make them disjoint.

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Finally got an hour to spare so I decided to fire up the latest beta.

Can't comment too much on mechanics and whatnot but as far as UI goes, the number one thing that struck me is how cool of an idea the speed slider is but also how hard it was to use. I just had a really hard time moving it. Haven't looked if hotkeys were available, maybe that is the solution? Or make it bigger?

I found the granularity to be off too. When you're at the minimum, it's like, really really slow. But when you go just one level faster, it's too fast I felt. There needs to be a value in between.

Hope you guys can have a look before the release cause that's huge quality of life here.

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Finally got an hour to spare so I decided to fire up the latest beta.

Can't comment too much on mechanics and whatnot but as far as UI goes, the number one thing that struck me is how cool of an idea the speed slider is but also how hard it was to use. I just had a really hard time moving it. Haven't looked if hotkeys were available, maybe that is the solution? Or make it bigger?
I found the granularity to be off too. When you're at the minimum, it's like, really really slow. But when you go just one level faster, it's too fast I felt. There needs to be a value in between.
Hope you guys can have a look before the release cause that's huge quality of life here.

Yeah, the slider is tricky to use with mouse. There are shortcuts for it (https://imgur.com/EJXZO83), though for some reasons they are inverted - with smart camera I have no longer need for WASDa so I bound the slider to  and D as it was in PoE1. Now all I want is to use the same shortcut for out of combat acceleration. I often press D outside a combat out of habit, and once the combat starts I am in Benny Hill mode. 

 

I personally like the assigned speeds. Maybe its customizable via game files? 

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I personally like the assigned speeds. Maybe its customizable via game files? 

 

 

 

I think Sawyer mentioned in the last Q&A stream that they were. I don't have a clue in which of the .json files the values are in though.

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One further bit of feedback as I mess around further:

 

Armor doesn't seem that useful right now, at least heavy armor doesn't (edit: and the same may be said of high-penetration weapons, like the Arquebus). It feels like simple clothing is the best gear for casters, for example, and even heavy tanks might not want more than scale mail. Heavy armor slows you down so much and the balance is skewed towards penetration anyway, so you're better off using medium to light armor just to prevent *overpenetration*, rather than to force enemies to get the "no pen" message.
 

On a similar note, I hope there is plenty of "fine" and otherwise enchanted/improved quality "clothing" of the various types. The Vailian frock coat especially is boss and I'm gonna want to pimp that coat on the regular,but unlike the prior game, it isn't enchantable.

Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy
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On a similar note, I hope there is plenty of "fine" and otherwise enchanted/improved quality "clothing" of the various types. The Vailian frock coat especially is boss and I'm gonna want to pimp that coat on the regular,but unlike the prior game, it isn't enchantable.

 

I'm hoping for the same thing as my Fire God-like Mage looks pretty baller with the Kuaru Clothing.

 

q6Hjm3y.jpg

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IMHO, Weapon and Shield Style should only confer the shield bonus to reflex, and superior deflection should be a lvl1 fighter ability and buffed in order to compete with Deep Faith, so that a Crusader has an actual choice between the two.

 

 

No chance universal talents will be modified because of one multiclass.


Vancian =/= per rest.

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Hey everyone, been a while since I've posted. I've just loaded up the latest backer beta after not being all that impressed with the first one.

 

And WOW.

 

Everything is better. Everything looks better, the ship combat, the handrawn Tikwara map...gorgeous. The revamped UI and the enemy healthbars and markers look great too.

 

I don't know what's changed...it feels a lot more like the first game now. Obviously still missing the sixth slot and the usual stuff, but I didn't feel annoyed by penetration (if it's even still in) and the empower ability is great.

 

Been running a Bleakwalker Monk. Sicked Flames of Devotion as an additional melee attack is OP as heck.

 

The one big issue I still have with the levelling is that the passive abilities are per-class and I feel like they shouldn't be (probably covered elsewhere in the forum) as I'm finding the power level progression quite limiting on customising your characters abilities and having to dump a point in a Will/Fortitude increase, for example.

 

The animations have got a lot better and the fight sequences connect a lot more smoothly than they did before.

 

All in all, I'm now excited for the full release again. Woo!


You read my post.

 

You have been eaten by a grue.

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One further bit of feedback as I mess around further:

 

Armor doesn't seem that useful right now, at least heavy armor doesn't (edit: and the same may be said of high-penetration weapons, like the Arquebus). It feels like simple clothing is the best gear for casters, for example, and even heavy tanks might not want more than scale mail. Heavy armor slows you down so much and the balance is skewed towards penetration anyway, so you're better off using medium to light armor just to prevent *overpenetration*, rather than to force enemies to get the "no pen" message.

 

On a similar note, I hope there is plenty of "fine" and otherwise enchanted/improved quality "clothing" of the various types. The Vailian frock coat especially is boss and I'm gonna want to pimp that coat on the regular,but unlike the prior game, it isn't enchantable.

 

 

Just to follow up on this, I'll crosspost something I said on SA:

 

 

 I went through and put the various current beta weapons in a spreadsheet:
 
 
Even though that isn't adjusted for things like two-handed style etc, looking at those base values and comparing with armor, I feel relatively confident in suggesting, at least as a trial, moving most of the weapon penetration values down one. Right now, vs. most weapons, there's very little reason to wear chain over leather; it doesn't give any additional advantage. If all weapons were one penetration value lower, then
 
1) most one-handed weapons would have a 25% penalty vs chain or scale
2) there would be a realistic tradeoff between the high-pen and low-pen weapons
3) the slash/pierce weapons (great sword, sword) would still be equivalently effective vs scale and brigandine
 
It would probably be a good idea to leave the explicitly "high penetration" weapons (estoc, mace, arquebus, arbalest, crossbow) as they are, perhaps also the "high pen / two damage types" weapons (warhammer, war bow, sceptre), so that those could still be effective vs. plate wearers.

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Are there any other people participating in the Backer Beta getting the impression that PotD in Deadfire seems "easier" than PotD in PoE1?

 

This has been on my mind for a while because I'm not sure if I fully support the sentiment. I seem to be having a much easier time with fights in the Beta than I would in the first game in a similar level range. I can't help but wonder if this means that difficulty in PoE2 will be more loaded unto the mid- and endgame or that difficulty in general is lower.

 

Edit: Accidentally a word

Edited by Alot

The Sharmat on Sensuki:

 

"It is not Baldur's Gate 3 he yearns to play. It is the experience of playing Baldur's Gate for the first time."

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Are there any other people participating in the Backer Beta getting the impression that PotD in Deadfire seems "easier" than PotD in PoE1?

 

This has been my mind for a while because I'm not sure if I fully support the sentiment. I seem to be having a much easier time with fights in the Beta than I would in the first game in a similar level range. I can't help but wonder if this means that difficulty in PoE2 will be more loaded unto the mid- and endgame or that difficulty in general is lower.

I’d say yes if you know how to build the team. But I think it’s easier than PoE1 when solo too.

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Are there any other people participating in the Backer Beta getting the impression that PotD in Deadfire seems "easier" than PotD in PoE1?

 

This has been on my mind for a while because I'm not sure if I fully support the sentiment. I seem to be having a much easier time with fights in the Beta than I would in the first game in a similar level range. I can't help but wonder if this means that difficulty in PoE2 will be more loaded unto the mid- and endgame or that difficulty in general is lower.

 

Edit: Accidentally a word

 

I fully expect a game that will also be on console... I'll let you form your own opinion on that. That said it is still in beta.

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Are there any other people participating in the Backer Beta getting the impression that PotD in Deadfire seems "easier" than PotD in PoE1?

 

This has been on my mind for a while because I'm not sure if I fully support the sentiment. I seem to be having a much easier time with fights in the Beta than I would in the first game in a similar level range. I can't help but wonder if this means that difficulty in PoE2 will be more loaded unto the mid- and endgame or that difficulty in general is lower.

 

Edit: Accidentally a word

 

 

Maybe a little but there's increased systems knowledge on our part too. I suspect the fights are actually slightly harder -- for example, I find myself pulling around blind corners more, etc. -- but we're all much better PoE players now, and we've improved more than the game has increased in difficulty. 

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additional bad(s)

 

obsidian overshot the goldilocks zone insofar as their changes to penetration and cipher focus generation is concerned.

 

initially penetration were the alpha and omega o' deadfire combat, which were admitted bad.  first beta release forced players to find ways to maximize penetration to the exclusion o' most other factors as, at best, secondary or tertiary concerns.  unfortunate, penetration is a relative negligible factor as of beta 4, which makes armour (friend or foe)  a meaningful consideration for countering overpenetration, and possible for a few as yet unseen boss battles.  yeah, pistols might be non optimal 'gainst a foe with high piercing resistant armour, but even so, pistols, affected by fod or other accuracy and penetration boosting powhaz, makes 'em effective 'gainst all save to most heavily armoured o' foes. works for player armour in a similar fashion as there is little reason to wear heavy armour as medium armour will be enough to prevent overpenetration... though am admitting we believe folks is underusing daze affliction at it significant boosts armour benefits.

 

focus generation for ciphers has also become comically easy for ciphers.  am s'posing the changes to penetration and to ciphers had a complimentary and additive impact on focus generation.  after the first couple moments o' a combat encounter, a vanilla cipher will have generated considerable focus and will be having little difficulty generating more focus as need be. negligible gameplay impact. 

 

regardless, as we previous stated, most o' the beta4 game mechanics improvements is not.  customization has ironic suffered as there is now essential passives intermixed between bloat options-- once folks play deadfire and submit their ideal builds we are gonna see more than a little repetition o' a small handful o' passives. the return o' might has given a power up to more than a few multiclasses which didn't actual need such, while genuine op paladins didn't get any real changes to mitigate their dominance. etc.

 

the game is playable in its current form and is even fun, but btea 4, as a whole, were an overreaction on the part o' obsidian.  a slight nerf to cipher focus generation and/or weapon penetrations as well as addressing paladin opness (at the very least, could return the malus to paladins) should be considered.  

 

am not expecting any meaningful balance changes by may 8, but obsidian will make balance changes post release, and am hopeful they ain't too reluctant to swing the nerf bat at deadfire, 'cause at the moment, the game needs a southie-style smackdown.

 

HA! Good fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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I find myself agreeing with Gromnir 

 

checks pulse

 

well, about penetration anyway

 

I think knocking everything at 7 pen or below down 1 will have a secondary effect on  focus anyway.

Edited by Dr. Hieronymous Alloy

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There probably won't be another backer beta before release, right?

It seems extremely unlikely that were would be another Backer Beta; reallocating developers to prepare a new Beta build would arguably be a waste of resources.

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The Sharmat on Sensuki:

 

"It is not Baldur's Gate 3 he yearns to play. It is the experience of playing Baldur's Gate for the first time."

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Are there any other people participating in the Backer Beta getting the impression that PotD in Deadfire seems "easier" than PotD in PoE1?

 

This has been on my mind for a while because I'm not sure if I fully support the sentiment. I seem to be having a much easier time with fights in the Beta than I would in the first game in a similar level range. I can't help but wonder if this means that difficulty in PoE2 will be more loaded unto the mid- and endgame or that difficulty in general is lower.

 

Edit: Accidentally a word

 

Is...is this really how other people feel? I can't even beat the titan on veteran in deadfire, and I breeze through PoTD in pillars 1. I guess I'm just used to how blatantly overpowered wizards and priests are in pillars 1.

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I know I'm having a lot of fun, which is sorta the point right!? :D


You read my post.

 

You have been eaten by a grue.

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Are there any other people participating in the Backer Beta getting the impression that PotD in Deadfire seems "easier" than PotD in PoE1?

 

This has been on my mind for a while because I'm not sure if I fully support the sentiment. I seem to be having a much easier time with fights in the Beta than I would in the first game in a similar level range. I can't help but wonder if this means that difficulty in PoE2 will be more loaded unto the mid- and endgame or that difficulty in general is lower.

 

Edit: Accidentally a word

 

Is...is this really how other people feel? I can't even beat the titan on veteran in deadfire, and I breeze through PoTD in pillars 1. I guess I'm just used to how blatantly overpowered wizards and priests are in pillars 1.

 

 

I wouldn't put that much credit into that it is easier, it just feels easier because we became experienced with mechanics and gameplay, we know most of the enemies we face, or if not, at least we can guess with moderate success. If your knowlegde is superficial about the game, then it can and will be difficult.

 

I remember when I played pillars 1 I spent hours upon hours watching gameplay and guide videos, and read a lot about mechanics untill I understood enough to beat the game with ease.

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^ To add to this the first time I played Pillars 1 on normal I couldn't beat the adra dragon, and now pretty much everything cries before me.

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You read my post.

 

You have been eaten by a grue.

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I did find Deadfire harder as first, as it’s not exactly like PoE1. Once I figure how interrupts work and how to manage time and protect from being interrupted it got much better.

 

Right now, I find Beta to be at the level of “I need to focus but can win every battle” with exception of Titan whom I have to cheese a bit every time.

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