I really dislike ship-to-ship combat

[katie]

I don't want to be negative, but I really didn't enjoy the ship-to-ship combat at all.

I won't lie and say I immediately understood how it worked, but even once I got it, I found it repetitive and boring... not to mention unfair (at least as far as the beta's ship starting resources were concerned).

 

I just ran out of ammunition after awhile and my opponent had the full amount, and so I died anyway. I kept trying to close in to improve the accuracy of my cannons, and they missed like crazy and did pitiful damage... and I can't imagine using 120 bullets on each and every ship battle. There were just so many combat rounds. My opponent was not exactly hitting either, but they just had more ammunition and so they won after 30 combat rounds... (or was it 50?)

I honestly thought the entire experience was the most unpolished and least thought-out mechanics I've ever seen in any Pillars game or Tyranny. 
 

I'll tell you this... what I want in a pirate game is to board their vessel for ship-to-ship fighting so I can beat them in swashbuckling combat, take all of their loot, and make their captain squirm. That's the fantasy I want to enjoy here.

 

And even better: I make the captain swear fealty to me, and they can go hunt items and resources for me for the rest of the game. Some captains can rebel, and you can put them down to set an example. OMG, the possibilities are endless here.

 

Endlessly speeding closer, turning around and firing cannons is really not what I want to do in this game. Let Assassin's Creed do that - they do it better. Give us something Assassin's Creed never gave us instead. Be your own game. I can already imagine me dreading these combat sequences in the main game... please fix it and make the whole game great :/

Edited March 14, 2018 by katie

[Novem]

Good thing you can in fact board the enemy ship then. Obsidian has already made it clear, as far as I know, that the ship combat is optional.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Novem

[Veevoir]

There is a rumored option for "beeline to boarding" being implemented so we can skip directly to boarding part.

I agree that the minigame needs a lot of changes, wonder if something will be done with it since beta 2 patch.

I'd love to have the ship-to-ship naval battle as an attractive option in combat. Currently it is simply mroe efficient and more fun to press for boarding cause my party will wipe the floor with enemy much faster and efficient than 100 turns of boring jibe-->shoot at 50% chance-->jibe-->repeat.

[bleedthefreak]

I don't want to be negative, but I really didn't enjoy the ship-to-ship combat at all.

I won't lie and say I immediately understood how it worked, but even once I got it, I found it repetitive and boring... not to mention unfair (at least as far as the beta's ship starting resources were concerned).

 

I just ran out of ammunition after awhile and my opponent had the full amount, and so I died anyway. I kept trying to close in to improve the accuracy of my cannons, and they missed like crazy and did pitiful damage... and I can't imagine using 120 bullets on each and every ship battle. There were just so many combat rounds. My opponent was not exactly hitting either, but they just had more ammunition and so they won after 30 combat rounds... (or was it 50?)

 

I honestly thought the entire experience was the most unpolished and least thought-out mechanics I've ever seen in any Pillars game or Tyranny. 

 

I'll tell you this... what I want in a pirate game is to board their vessel for ship-to-ship fighting so I can beat them in swashbuckling combat, take all of their loot, and make their captain squirm. That's the fantasy I want to enjoy here.

 

And even better: I make the captain swear fealty to me, and they can go hunt items and resources for me for the rest of the game. Some captains can rebel, and you can put them down to set an example. OMG, the possibilities are endless here.

 

Endlessly speeding closer, turning around and firing cannons is really not what I want to do in this game. Let Assassin's Creed do that - they do it better. Give us something Assassin's Creed never gave us instead. Be your own game. I can already imagine me dreading these combat sequences in the main game... please fix it and make the whole game great :/

 

I actually gave you a quick reply on your comment on my video, hopefully that helps as well, but for posterity I'll paste it here:

 

The problem with the ship combat in the beta is it's the first iteration of it and you get thrown in without any build up or tutorial, or really much info at all. They've made many changes to it since this beta version came out (including the option to bypass the text-based portion and skip directly to ship to ship combat if you prefer) but as I dig into it more and realize it's simply a turn-based game of cat and mouse with fantastic sound effects and some neat little moments (like scoring a hit on the other ships gun powder scores) the more I think when finished it could be really fun.

[Wormerine]

I am afraid I have to say, that you don’t understand ship2ship combat yet, if it took you so long. Blame is not on you, as there is no tutorial ingame, and in current state it give you really poor feedback when it comes to various stats.

 

In beta I found ship2ship combat to heavily favour the player, as you have better equipped ship. You are given enough resources to complete beta, without much stress.

 

In ship to ship combat keep in mind that distance is important. Your default equipped cannons have an effective range of 200-400 meters. Shooting beyond that range will make it difficult to hit. “Stop” move gives you +20 accuracy. In the right range you should get between 70-100% hit chance depending on your previous moves and enemy position. Ships which face you with bow/stern are harder to hit, but you do 2x damage. Firing cannons with low chance of hitting is simply a waste of resources.

 

Overall, I found it rare to have battles which lasted longer than 10 rounds - also jibe move is OP right now and needs a solid nerf. Also full sail is broken, and until it’s fixed there is not benefit of using it instead of half sail, which you can use twice per round.

[mrmonocle]

@OP

 

you're not alone, pal. you're not alone.

[Nail]

Boarding the ship is a very tough fight.

The weird thing - when you kill the majority of enemy crew, like 1 person stays and  it's a free shooting target, boarding the ship will result as a combat with whole healthy crew...

And I can add that shoot, jibe shoot, repeat is not fun.

This needs some changes.

 

p.s. @OP if you'll reach distance more then 600 feet - the combat will be ended (useful if you don't have ammo and your ship is faster).

Edited March 14, 2018 by Nail

[Wormerine]

Boarding the ship is a very tough fight.

The weird thing - when you kill the majority of enemy crew, like 1 person stays and  it's a free shooting target, boarding the ship will result as a combat with whole healthy crew...

Thats not entirely true. Crew will keep injuries aquired during ship2ship combat.

 

I would too, however, prefer if the difference was more visible. Even if it makes statistical difference, it doesn't feel like that. Posssibly a negative sideeffect of removing 25% health loss with every injury gained?

[PatrioticChief]

Yeah I could see ship combat being fun. I like the idea of it being text based and I think it certainly makes the ship more engaging than Caed Nau. However, it suffers from the same issue PoE, ie, not enough feedback to give the player a clear idea of how things work and interact. I don't think most folk mind a challenge, in fact I prefer it to be tougher, but I like to know the rules and mechanics at play so I can work to manipulate them. 

Edited March 14, 2018 by PatrioticChief

[theBalthazar]

Hope the delay will be used to improve this horrible ship2ship.

 

Few weeks ago, I launched a poll to understand the real situation on this feature in the spirit of players (people like or dislike ? etc.)

 

And there was a 50 / 50. But frankly, I think a lot of people hate this mini-game.

 

Boring and not fun.

 

+1 for you Katie.

Edited March 14, 2018 by theBalthazar

[katie]

Good thing you can in fact board the enemy ship then. Obsidian has already made it clear, as far as I know, that the ship combat is optional.

I must have died before I even got the option :/ Honestly, I tried and tried. I ran out of ammo. That entire part just wasn't fun :/ If you can board the ship, then if I got a chance to do that, I would have had a great time with it.

Edited March 14, 2018 by katie

[katie]

Hope the delay will be used to improve this horrible ship2ship.

 

Few weeks ago, I launched a poll to understand the real situation on this feature in the spirit of players (people like or dislike ? etc.)

 

And there was a 50 / 50. But frankly, I think a lot of people hate this mini-game.

 

Boring and not fun.

 

+1 for you Katie.

Thanks!

 

If it's 50/50 among backers, the most passionate and dedicated audience they are going to receive - the very people who want this game to succeed more than anybody else - then I can imagine it being a lot less than 50% when the game ships at launch

[Wormerine]

I must have died before I even got the option :/ Honestly, I tried and tried. I ran out of ammo. That entire part just wasn't fun :/ If you can board the ship, then if I got a chance to do that, I would have had a great time with it.

Right now in order to board you need to essentially “sail into” your enemy. Do two half sail moves per round, to maximise speed (as mentioned before full sail doesn’t work properly, so by using it you will effectively move by half the possible speed). Distance between you and your enemy is represented by distance number on the bottom of the screen. Once it reaches 0 you will crash into enemy ship and boarding will proceed.

 

There was a promise of automated fleeing/boarding a while back.

[Boeroer]

I feel the same as katie - at least with the beta version. I have no idea how this will play in the final game of course.

Edited March 14, 2018 by Boeroer

[morhilane]

All my beta ship to ship battles ended with the enemy ship running away.

 

 

I actually like the mini-game though, but then my impression of these forums is that I like what others don't like about the game, lol.

[drchocapic]

Yeah I'm not a fan either, the mini-game isn't fun at all and it takes way too long to get in range for a boarding assault.

 

Thankfully it seems like it won't be mandatory in the final game.

[DexGames]

If it's 50/50 among backers, the most passionate and dedicated audience they are going to receive - the very people who want this game to succeed more than anybody else - then I can imagine it being a lot less than 50% when the game ships at launch

 

To be fair, there was ~40 voters.... 

Where 45% of them found it neither to be good, bad, fun, nor boring at all.

 

So... Should we really take this as relevant feedback data ?  ... 

 

 

1. Fully satisfying (2 votes [4.55%])

    

2. Satisfying (9 votes [20.45%])

    

3. Middle (20 votes [45.45%])

    

4. Not particularly fun (8 votes [18.18%])

    

5. I do not see any interest (5 votes [11.36%])

 

 

 

I dont particularly enjoy it myself. [neither do I strongly hate it]

But in the end, it's optional, & up to everyone either to like it or not.

Edited March 15, 2018 by DexGames

[bleedthefreak]

My math may not be the best, but I don't think 13/40 voters is a 50/50 split between those that hate it and those that do not.

Edited March 15, 2018 by bleedthefreak

[Boeroer]

If you compare 11 yeah to 13 meh and leave the "I can't decide" folks away then 50/50 is not that far off.

[Yosharian]

I don't want to be negative, but I really didn't enjoy the ship-to-ship combat at all.

I won't lie and say I immediately understood how it worked, but even once I got it, I found it repetitive and boring... not to mention unfair (at least as far as the beta's ship starting resources were concerned).

 

I just ran out of ammunition after awhile and my opponent had the full amount, and so I died anyway. I kept trying to close in to improve the accuracy of my cannons, and they missed like crazy and did pitiful damage... and I can't imagine using 120 bullets on each and every ship battle. There were just so many combat rounds. My opponent was not exactly hitting either, but they just had more ammunition and so they won after 30 combat rounds... (or was it 50?)

 

> bullets

 

ngggghhhhhhh

[bleedthefreak]

If you compare 11 yeah to 13 meh and leave the "I can't decide" folks away then 50/50 is not that far off.

 

Honestly there shouldn't have been a middle of the road answer. I don't understand why 20 people without an opinion bothered to vote.

 

I will say I made a video with some ship to ship combat on it and it felt like most folks that took the time to comment didn't really like it. But I hasten to add I did a terrible job showing it off because it was my first time seeing it and of course the beta doesn't explain anything, so it was a bad first impression for all of us. I've since seen streams where Josh explained how it works and have come to like it a lot more, and have high hopes that the next time we see it the system will be much improved and a lot more fun. And of course, skippable if desired (even if you like it, maybe going through the motions every single time will get old after awhile in such a lengthy game).

[Gitmfap]

Tool tips would help it tremendously.

[wahmann1]

 

If you compare 11 yeah to 13 meh and leave the "I can't decide" folks away then 50/50 is not that far off.

 

Honestly there shouldn't have been a middle of the road answer. I don't understand why 20 people without an opinion bothered to vote.

 

I will say I made a video with some ship to ship combat on it and it felt like most folks that took the time to comment didn't really like it. But I hasten to add I did a terrible job showing it off because it was my first time seeing it and of course the beta doesn't explain anything, so it was a bad first impression for all of us. I've since seen streams where Josh explained how it works and have come to like it a lot more, and have high hopes that the next time we see it the system will be much improved and a lot more fun. And of course, skippable if desired (even if you like it, maybe going through the motions every single time will get old after awhile in such a lengthy game).

 

I didn't vote, but would have been middle of the road because it is below the standards I am hoping for now, just barely (so I could vote it down), but is close to what I want and I expect it will make it there (so I could vote it up).

[PatrioticChief]

Tool tips would help it tremendously.

 

Agreed. I feel like it is difficult to judge until we have that. 

Edited March 16, 2018 by PatrioticChief

[djinnxy]

The ship v. ship could use a little polish. The fight after boarding is nice with the crew hired fighting along side. My one major issue was when I put a ship at full speed ahead and gain 60m, why does it stop moving forward? Seriously? What kind of boat has anyone been in that goes 60m then has to turn left and right to continue moving forward again? And before anyone jumps on that one, I do understand tacking. It happens no matter what direction the ship goes and not just into the wind.