Politics Princess' Sweet Sixteen

[Blarghagh]

"Just Stop Talking" say the people continuing to give her a platform despite her irrelevancy at this point.

[Malcador]

  https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/stop-hillary-just-stop/

 

When it comes to stupid stuff to talk about the Clintons are the gift that just keeps on giving!

 

 

As an aside, that is very disappointing if that counts as an editorial for the NY Post

[Hurlshort]

Retired politician says something in India, news at 11. 

[Guard Dog]

 

  https://nypost.com/2018/03/15/stop-hillary-just-stop/

 

When it comes to stupid stuff to talk about the Clintons are the gift that just keeps on giving!

 

 

As an aside, that is very disappointing if that counts as an editorial for the NY Post

 

I think you are thinking of the NY Times. The NY Post is only a rung or two above the National Enquirer.

[Malcador]

Well, I at least expected a longer article with more snarky filler from a Murdoch rag.

[smjjames]

Democrats want her to drop off the radar metaphorically because she really isn't helping while Republicans want her to keep talking for exactly the same reason.

 

She clearly doesn't know when it's best to lay low and not comment, unlike Obama for example.

[Guard Dog]

Democrats want her to drop off the radar metaphorically because she really isn't helping while Republicans want her to keep talking for exactly the same reason.

 

She clearly doesn't know when it's best to lay low and not comment, unlike Obama for example.

That was always one of her biggest flaws... she is selfish and narcissistic. They combine poorly with bitterness and arrogance.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Guard Dog

[Elerond]

 

 

But would USA declare war to China, if China takes away Taiwan's and Hong Kong's autonomies and taking direct control over lots of world's electronic manufacturing or if China takes over Senkaku Islands and builds their military base there in order to make it easier to strike to Japan there, or if China increases their naval power South China sea and so on?  And what would Australia do if China threatens to block their imports and exports?

 

Meaning that China and USA don't need to go in full on war in order to have fight over things that effect big economical and political impacts.

 

Interesting discussing. I dont think China will conquer Japan you greatly underestimate Japan. Japan dont even need USA to defend vs China. Australia would likely make their BETA military alliance with Japan to full military alliance if China will harass them. Australia is not a poor country. I am sure they can increase the military budget if the demand rises and Japan is constantly increasing military budget already.

 

Hong Kong? Their autonomy is already taken away step by step and there is nothing you can do about that unless you want to start a war with China and nobody wants to attack China based on whatever happens in Hong Kong. Hong Kong is doomed anyway its fate is sealed and it is doomed.

 

Taiwan? Taiwan is an interesting chapter. History goes that communists stayed in mainland and nationalists moved to Taiwan. Taiwan has been very stubborn in resisting main land China. Regarding Taiwan future I find it very hard to predict for some reason don't know why Taiwan seems to do better then say Hong Kong with China mainland authorities.

 

Taiwan is so much resisting so I would not sign out the possibility of civil war Taiwan vs mainland. I think they mainly try diplomacy.

 

If China tries to take Taiwan by force there will be war and Taiwan hates China:

 

 

 

Yes China can go have their wargames with Taiwan that would result in massive military casualties to China mainland and a destroyed Taiwan not a great way to improve China economy and in the aftermath there can be lingering guerilla warfare with terror attacks from pissed of Taiwanese people who have lost the war.

 

 

Who speak about China conquering Japan? China has now for quite long time wanted to build military bases closer to Japan in order to have more military threat towards them.  If you think that Taiwanese or Japanese hate China that is quite mild comparison to hate which lots of Chinese feel towards Japan, because of what Japanese did for Chinese in WW2. It is historical issue that still causes lots of disputes between China and Japan. If you look Finnish attitudes towards Russians and then increase disdain/hate by ten folds you may get picture of how lots of Chinese feels about Japanese.

 

 In war between Japan and China, China would eventually win because of it fast larger resources (over 10x more people, much more natural resources, much more factories and other production facilities, larger capacity to produce ships, air planes and missiles. And not vulnerable to total aerial and naval blockade), but if China actually tried to conquer Japan, that war would end in usage of nuclear weapons which would make whole thing pointless. So there is quite low change that such war will ever happen in any other form than in form of a cold war.

 

In war between China and Taiwan, China would most likely just blockade Taiwan and force it surrender by bombarding it if outside forces don't come to help Taiwan. China lets currently Taiwan keep its partially recognized state (Taiwan isn't currently fully independent country because China claims sovereignty over, which makes diplomatic relations with Taiwan quite complicated, which is why only 20 countries actually recognize Taiwan as country) because they don't want jeopardize their trade and other agreements with other countries, but that attitude would change if USA broke one of those agreements for example by attacking to NK. Also Taiwan's stubbornness to resist China isn't necessary in magnitudes that you think, because there are big sunk of Taiwanese who actually want Taiwan to become part of China (20-30% in polls but under actual military threat it could rise or lower somewhat).

 

Yeah, China taking over by force Taiwan and Honk Kong and other territories it wants would hurt its economy and foreign relationships, which is why they have not done so, but even though economy is big factor in political decision it isn't only one, which is why we even talk about USA's possible strike/war with NK. Or why we, rest of EU and USA have several kinds of sanctions towards Russia. Why we have trade restrictions towards China and lots of other countries which human rights situations we don't approve. Meaning that you should not underestimate China's willingness to hurt their economy in order to forward their other political/ideological ambitions.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Elerond

[smjjames]

Hong Kong wasn't taken over by force by China, it was taken from them by Britian in the 19th century and later given back to them via treaty.

 

Also, Japan could develop nukes right now, but they choose not to make them. They do have the plutonium stockpile, which is enough to unnerve China.

Edited March 16, 2018 by smjjames

[Elerond]

Hong Kong wasn't taken over by force by China, it was taken from them by Britian in the 19th century and later given back to them via treaty.

 

Also, Japan could develop nukes right now, but they choose not to make them. They do have the plutonium stockpile, which is enough to unnerve China.

 

Hong Kong is currently autonomous state of China with lots of privileges that other part of China do not have and Chinese can't actually freelly move to Hong Kong, which is why there are people in China's political leadership that want to end that and assimilate to be same as other parts of China. But because of those privileges and Hong Kong's history being British territory there are lots of western companies in Hong Kong and they don't want see Hong Kong's status to change which is why our governments have been opposed China's actions to take Hong Kong's autonomy and privileges away.

 

Yeah Japan has materials, facilities and know how to produce nuclear weapon in very short period of time, they may actually even have nukes even though they claim opposite, same fashion as Israel.

[Guard Dog]

Political humor... sort of... well, I laughed at it

 

[Bartimaeus]

Meanwhile in China: "China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains"

 

For anyone who doesn't know, China is currently running a sort of "social credit score" system where being critical of the government, minor legal infractions, financial problems, your appearance in public, associating with other people with a low credit score, etc. reduces your social credit score and makes you an undesirable...and now it's starting to carry legal implications. Authoritarianism taken to the next level...and a good argument for always pushing and fighting for your rights (though we may often disagree with which are the most important) in our cushy Western countries, for (virtually) nothing in our world is either free or static. Every country that no longer exists or had its governmental system replaced at some point either collapsed, was conquered, and/or had some kind of revolution - and we have little reason to believe that we should be any different. Compared to the living conditions elsewhere in less stable parts of the world right now as well as what people had to endure in centuries past, we live in relative utopias - I would think we would like to keep it that way, but it always has been and always will be a struggle.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[HoonDing]

Why did the Brits put dead poodles on their hats

[smjjames]

Meanwhile in China: "China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains"

 

For anyone who doesn't know, China is currently running a sort of "social credit score" system where being critical of the government, minor legal infractions, financial problems, your appearances in public, associating with other people with a low credit score, etc. reduces your social credit score and makes you an undesirable...and now it's starting to carry legal implications. Authoritarianism taken to the next level...and a good argument for always pushing and fighting for your rights (though we may often disagree with which are the most important) in our cushy Western countries, for nothing in our world is either free or static.

 

Extremely 1984....

 

Also sounds like a recipe for getting trapped in a low credit score if an area has a trend or problem with 'low social credit score', also creating stratified social classes. I know the article says that it's only temporary, but the way that the system is named 'once untrustworthy, always restricted' gives it the potential to go full 1984.

 

 

 

Why did the Brits put dead poodles on their hats

 

Because they're silly.

Edited March 16, 2018 by smjjames

[213374U]

Meanwhile in China: "China to bar people with bad 'social credit' from planes, trains"

 

If only this extended to PUBG cheaters...

[Gfted1]

Based on Bartimaeus summary (I didn't read the link) I cant say I completely disagree with the Chinese program. Imo, having some social rules and expectations is better than every single clown doing whatever, wherever, they want cause "that's their rights".

[smjjames]

Based on Bartimaeus summary I cant say I completely disagree with the Chinese program. Imo, having some social rules and expectations is better than every single clown doing whatever, wherever, they want cause "that's their rights".

 

One imposed by the government and the government sets the rules? I don't mean stuff like no littering signs, I mean straight up social engineering on that scale and scope.

 

I have a feeling our fellow libertarian forumers are going to have a different definition and scope on social engineering like what the Chinese program is, but we generally enforce social rules and expectations with laws rather than something straight out of 1984.

[213374U]

Based on Bartimaeus summary I cant say I completely disagree with the Chinese program. Imo, having some social rules and expectations is better than every single clown doing whatever, wherever, they want cause "that's their rights".

 

I think the concern is more about the state having a comprehensive record of every minor thing you may have ever done and enforcing penalties based on that, than about the idea of consequences for violations.

 

On principle, I don't disagree, either. I live in a country where it's really easy for minor things like telling someone to take their hoof off a bus seat to escalate into a physical confrontation -- basic manners and consideration have largely gone the way of the dodo. I would, however, resist it in practice because if something has a potential to be abused you can bet your ass politicians will abuse the **** out of it. I mean, it's not like the CPC have a great track record of transparency and honesty.

 

Social rules have always worked based on a soft "social credit" concept. The problem is the state taking charge of it now.

[Bartimaeus]

Based on Bartimaeus summary (I didn't read the link) I cant say I completely disagree with the Chinese program. Imo, having some social rules and expectations is better than every single clown doing whatever, wherever, they want cause "that's their rights".

 

I wouldn't like to be disbarred from travel purely based on associating with the likes of you.

 

@213374U: Yep, social credit has always existed. However, it is a dystopian nightmare that your government should keep a permanent record of it via arbitrary rules (some of which are no doubt secret) and then subsequently use findings from it to punish you. It should be up to the people to collectively ostracize (and impose soft social restrictions upon) others for awful behavior, not the government.

Edited March 16, 2018 by Bartimaeus

[ShadySands]

Reminds me of that Orville episode where everyone on a planet gets voted on and if you get too many downvotes then you get "corrected."

[Malcador]

Political humor... sort of... well, I laughed at it

 

 

Damn it, i had almost forgot that ****ing movie existed.

[Guard Dog]

  It was pretty awful.

[HoonDing]

I rooted for the British.

[Raithe]

Well they were going to base that movie on a real historical character. Then as they started shooting they realised the character who fought the English was a slave-holding rapist, and decided "eh, maybe we shouldn't use this guy as a hero, lets just fictionalise him..."

[Malcador]

So they fired McCabe just before he could retire, heh.

 

https://www.washingtonpost.com/news/politics/wp/2018/03/16/fbis-andrew-mccabe-is-fired-just-before-retiring-former-deputy-director-became-lightning-rod-for-clinton-email-and-russia-probes/?utm_term=.de99a4a43fcd

Edited March 17, 2018 by Malcador