Resolved to fix Resolve!

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

Why would Resolve empower one or two of your spells/skills?

Isn't really Resolve better suited for resisting or at least soften the blow of afflictions? That would be more fitting.

 

 

One idea for current Resolve system I have is:

Change the Interruption/Concentration system in this way: 

 

Old: An Interruption has 100% chance to break a layer of Concentration.

Now: An Interruption has 50% chance to break a layer of Concentraion.

 

Each point of Resolve reduce this break chance by 3%. So for a 20 Resolve player, the chance to break his Concentraion is only 20%, sounds good?

Furthermore, we can give Perception +chance to break Concentration in the same way as Resolve.

 

Problem solved.

 

Question: does this make Interruption too weak?

Answer: I don't think so because based on how many method some classes has to interrupt, for example Rooting Pain, and Blunderbuss + Interruption ability, and any Full Attack that delivers two interruptions.

 

 

@dunehunter: In addition - it does fit the concept of Resolve well.

 

Perhaps we could use my idea of softening afflictions and dunehunter's idea - that would make Resolve juicy for several classes and fitting enough, no?

 

 

 

@dunehunter: In addition - it does fit the concept of Resolve well.

 

Perhaps we could use my idea of softening afflictions and dunehunter's idea - that would make Resolve juicy for several classes and fitting enough, no?

 

Well let's make a seperate thread and see how beta backers like our idea?

 

Dear, beta backers, let's solve Resolve, once and for all!

[dunehunter]

Oh you are faster

 

https://forums.obsidian.net/topic/96287-a-new-proposal-on-resolveinterruption-system/

Edited February 26, 2018 by dunehunter

[anfoglia]

One suggestion someone made on another site was to have Resolve decrease the duration of afflictions. I like it because it's simple, on-theme, and attractive to all classes. I don't know whether it would run into any of the same issues that made the concentration-related change unworkable. Nor did I follow previous Resolve discussions closely enough to know whether this idea was already raised and problems were identified.

 

Another idea I had was for Resolve to mitigate the effects of injuries, but I'm skeptical that would help the stat if (as seems likely) the game ends up in a place where everyone is resting as soon as they pick up an injury anyway. I'm also wary of tying Resolve to a mechanic (injuries) that should probably be overhauled at some point in Deadfire's life.

 

I suppose Resolve could lower the damage of disengagement attacks. This would make the stat more attractive for fighters who need to move about and change the battle lines. A squishy character may want more resolve in lieu of the abilities meant to escape engagement. Idk.

[IndiraLightfoot]

@anfoglia: I really like it too.

[Boeroer]

That was my idea but not my idea alone. Several other users came up with this as well at the same time since it seems to fit Resolve (like "get your act together and shrug it off!"). We also voted for RES to extend the durations of inspirations on you.

 

It didn't either fit into the game or was not recognized by the devs.

 

I can imagine since there's already resistances and inspirations countering afflictions that this feature of Resolve would have been too much shenanigans with afflictions. Maybe they are right.

 

Sounds still nice though.

 

I like the approach with the Concentration/Interrupts above,but maybe it makes things too complicated for the average player?

 

I was thinking about this for a while: INT influences duration (but more impact then atm) while Resolve influences size of AoE. This would also fit better with Carnage and Sacred Immolation and stuff.

[CottonWolf]

I put this in the other thread, but considering that this thread has seemingly won the thread wars:

 

Eh, I'm not a fan of this (dunehunter's idea) for three reasons.

 

1) I disagree that it doesn't make interrupts too weak, especially as the entire point of some skills is to interrupt and outside of that they're strictly inferior to others.

2) It provides no benefits for non-casters.

3) With the increases in cast speed, this would functionally be a massive buff to casters. Not only do you have a considerably shorter time to interrupt them, chances are you'll fail if you try anyway.

Edited February 26, 2018 by CottonWolf

[MaxQuest]

Here are a few quick ideas off the top of my head that maybe could fit into resolve:

In STR/RES model:

- +10% to upgrade/downgrade outcoming inspirations by 1 tier (although it's also random, it's not that game deciding)

 

In MIG/RES model:

- +2 deflection (which is ~4% damage reduction vs damage targeting this defense; and is better in line with CON)

- +3% flat damage reduction

- +2% to over-penetration bonus (30% bonus damage on overpen becomes 60% @ 20 RES)

- +10% chance for your afflictions to overcome enemy inspirations (usually if the target has an inspiration you have to cast affliction twice: first to remove the inspiration and after that to apply the affliction; at 20 RES you would be able to affect the target from the get go; while at 0 RES you would not be able to apply an affliction on an inspired target (provided that inspiration attribute matches the affliction))

- +5% hit-conversion (at > 10 RES hits might get converted to crits; at < 10 RES to grazes)

- lowers your graze_threshold by 2

 

One suggestion someone made on another site was to have Resolve decrease the duration of afflictions.

That's an interesting idea. Have to note though that average enemy resolve is likely around 13 (at least that was the case in PoE1, and also 78/6=13). So cc durations would probably have to be increased slightly. Edited February 26, 2018 by MaxQuest

[CottonWolf]

Here are a few quick ideas off the top of my head that maybe could fit into resolve:

In STR/RES model:

- +10% to upgrade/downgrade outcoming inspirations by 1 tier (although it's also random, it's not that game deciding)

 

 

I'm not necessarily against this, but I think you're underestimating how good it is. Dump RES to 3 and you have a 70% chance of getting the afflication the level above. Play an orlan/human, max RES and take the appropriate background and you have a 100% chance of downgrading any affliction you're hit with. Combined with something like a Wild Orlan's inherent resistance, this becomes insanely strong.

[IndiraLightfoot]

In STR/RES model (assuming everything is like in the Deadfire beta):

-For each attack or spell, a percentage that you'll get one higher Penetration:

If you have Resolve 3-9, perhaps there's even a percentage that you'll get one lower Pen!

But Res 14, could be 35%, and Res 20, for instance, could be 65% to have Pen+1 or something.

 

Attractive for all classes, really.

[MaxQuest]

 

Here are a few quick ideas off the top of my head that maybe could fit into resolve:

In STR/RES model:

- +10% to upgrade/downgrade outcoming inspirations by 1 tier (although it's also random, it's not that game deciding)

 

I'm not necessarily against this, but I think you're underestimating how good it is. Dump RES to 3 and you have a 70% chance of getting the afflication the level above. Play an orlan/human, max RES and take the appropriate background and you have a 100% chance of downgrading any affliction you're hit with. Combined with something like a Wild Orlan's inherent resistance, this becomes insanely strong.

 

Chance to upgrade/downgrade And only outcoming inspirations)

 

At 10 RES - it's 0.

At 20 RES - you have 100% chance get a next-tier inspiration, e.g. cast Fit get Tenacious instead. Tier 3 inspiration doesn't get upgraded.

At 3 RES - you have a 70% chance to downgrade, and thus get a prev-tier inspiration, e.g. cast Tenacious get Fit instead. Tier 1 inspiration doesn't get downgraded.

 

Or it could be made like so:

At 10 RES - it's 0.

At 20 RES - you have 100% chance get a next-tier inspiration, e.g. cast Fit get Tenacious instead. Tier 3 inspiration doesn't get upgraded but it gets applied even if you are affected by matching affliction. (i.e. you are affected by weakened, cast robust at 20 RES, and you get rid of weakened, and! apply robust)

At 3 RES - you have a 70% chance to downgrade, and thus get a prev-tier inspiration, e.g. cast Tenacious get Fit instead. Tier 1 inspiration gets downgraded into nothing.

Edited February 26, 2018 by MaxQuest

[mrmonocle]

ok, another alternative

 

 

let's introduce a new resolve meter from 0 to 100. 

 

The number of resolve that you have will fill the meter upon any skill that you use

 

When the meter is 100 you can use a free empower.

 

at 20 res it will mean you have to fire off 5 skills.

 

the meter could also be filled by skills used on you.

[Wormerine]

ok, another alternative

 

 

let's introduce a new resolve meter from 0 to 100. 

 

The number of resolve that you have will fill the meter upon any skill that you use

 

When the meter is 100 you can use a free empower.

 

at 20 res it will mean you have to fire off 5 skills.

 

the meter could also be filled by skills used on you.

Eh, problem is it would be useful only if you had super high resolve. What would be the downside of having low resolve? It would have a massive spot where resolve would do nothing - have it at 3 or 7 or 12 and you probably won’t reach the “empower” threshold.

[mrmonocle]

 

Eh, problem is it would be useful only if you had super high resolve. What would be the downside of having low resolve? It would have a massive spot where resolve would do nothing - have it at 3 or 7 or 12 and you probably won’t reach the “empower” threshold.

 

 

even average resolve is only 10 skills traded (cast by you or cast on you).

 

high resolve makes it 5

 

super high resolve makes it 3

 

it totally ok in my book not to reach a free empower with a low resolve char along with other penalties.

[Enduin]

I still would like to see Injuries changed up a bit with then Resolve playing into that.

 

Have two degrees of Injuries: Major and Minor. Major would function as the current injuries do now, but the only change would be they can only be healed by staying at an Inn, not just resting with food. Acquire 4 of them and you die. Then you would have Minor injuries which inflict smaller penalties. You would be able to acquire 8 of them before perma death. They could be healed via resting/food, but the big difference is that Minor Injuries could be acquired via normal combat, and not just from Knockouts and Traps. I figured the easiest mechanism would be from Crits, with a % based chance to acquire an injury, possibly influenced by the overall dmg dealt. When you are knocked out in combat that too would trigger a roll that would determine if you receive a Major or Minor injury, possibly again influenced by overall dmg dealt in the knockout blow.

 

Where Resolve plays into this is that your Resolve stat would help/hurt the overall % chance of acquiring Minor injuries from Crits in combat as well as the chances of receiving Major injuries from Knockouts. An additional possibility would be to also decrease the effects of said injuries, so you can power through with multiple injuries with less of an impact on your character stats. And then obviously if you decrease your Resolve below 10 the odds of receiving Minor/Major injuries would then increase, as would the effects of said injuries.

 

To me this would help to make injuries more interesting as a mechanic, providing a more substantial risk/reward to resting and consuming supplies to heal, as well as giving Resolve a more substantial and real world impact on gameplay that doesn't favor or penalize any one class too much. 

Edited February 26, 2018 by Enduin

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

From what I understand, they want to return to might. Random chance to empower is an attempt to give some value to resolve. The end of Josh post:

 

“ If this design does not pan out, we are likely to revert to Pillars I Might/Resolve.”

 

Suggest to me they they are set on ditching strenght, no matter what.

 

I reckon, Wormerine is correct in his interpretation of what Josh wrote.

And I think I wouldn't mind this.

 

I still remember what Might did, but please remind me: Exactly how did PoE1 Resolve work?

[Boeroer]

It raises deflection (like in Deadfire), will defense (like in Deadfire) and Concentration (which is not a binary thing in PoE but a sort of defense against interrupt rolls that are done with every attack roll). Since the concentration "defense" is gone in Deadfire Resolve is lacking something.

[MaxQuest]

I still remember what Might did, but please remind me: Exactly how did PoE1 Resolve work?

PoE1 Resolve: +1 deflection, +2 will, +3 concentration

 

Attacker was making an (interrupt) roll against defender's (concentration) (which had a base value of 75).

Interrupt was getting a +25 bonus on crit; and -25 malus on graze.

[Insidous]

I'm curious what he means with going back to the pillars 1 resolve. I can't imagine they will revert concentration and interrupts this late because they have so many abilities and mechanics designed around the new system. But without that, back to beta 1 with Resolve: +1 deflection, +2 will?

 

I still hope they find a good new solution, but personally prefer the beta 3 version over the beta 1 version

[CENIC]

Just bring back MIG, and give RES +5% Inspiration Duration (Received/Cast), +5% Affliction Duration (Cast), -5% Affliction Duration (Received) to make it more attractive.

[wahmann1]

I would like to see RES impact accuracy and/or damage on disengage (maybe even engagement radius). No other attribute impacts these things and it has the feel of tenaciousness, like RES probably should have. I'd like it to impact affliction magnitude and/or duration. I know there are some suggestions about concentration, and it makes perfect sense for that to be part of RES if it works with the formulae that are now in use.

 

I think it would be cool if a negative RES had a randomizing effect because it feels like low RES should reduce reliability, but if we are going with a randomizing empower effect as Josh suggested, I think making empower unreliable is the way to go. For example, empower only works 50% of the time +5% per RES, RES determines cooldown for a next use of empower, and RES determines how many times you can try to empower a character in a single encounter. Base the metric on giving a party twice as many empowers, but spread out over a long fight, and they only work half (more with high RES) of the time.

 

Oh, and bring back MIG.

Edited February 28, 2018 by wahmann1

[KDubya]

I'd actually vote for trying out Josh's new Resolve that randomly empowers your abilities.

 

It might be a lot better than people think and regardless that's probably what will be in the game.

[Wormerine]

I am replaying BG:EE right now, and I have been looking for stuff that PoE is missing and that could be borrowed. PoE doesn’t have moral mechanic - though I am not sure if I miss my characters running around in panic and getting killed when getting to low health. Getting lower/higher resistance to moral with resolve seems like a good fit but I am not so hot on the mechanic itself.

Edited February 28, 2018 by Wormerine

[the_dog_days]

IMO, the personality reputation mechanic can be better than the morality meter of Baldur's Gate. The question is reactivity (as it always is with RPGs).

[Dr <3]

I am replaying BG:EE right now, and I have been looking for stuff that PoE is missing and that could be borrowed. PoE doesn’t have moral mechanic - though I am not sure if I miss my characters running around in panic and getting killed when getting to low health. Getting lower/higher resistance to moral with resolve seems like a good fit but I am not so hot on the mechanic itself.

The resolve afflictions will please your desire (es: while terrorized you should be unable to attack afaik)

[zongclu]

I'd actually vote for trying out Josh's new Resolve that randomly empowers your abilities.

 

It might be a lot better than people think and regardless that's probably what will be in the game.

 

The theoretical concerns are quite significant, though.

• Adds more RNG with random spikes of damage on top of Crits - PL adds to enemy's damage and penetration as well. Imagine Crit + Empowered dragon's breath
• Comes with weakening of manual empowers to mitigate ^ (+10 PL to +5 as said by Josh) - makes it even less attractive vs replenishing resources
• To combat save-scumming, it can only trigger after X duration into combat (also said by Josh) - a bit of an inelegant implementation, and limits its effect arbitrarily