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The idea that single class characters would actually get a significant focused scale seems to be a bit forgotten, so I too wonder what happened.

Great question for someone with a Tumblr account
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"Our worst enemies are inventions of the mind. Pleasure. Fear. When we see them for what they are, we become unstoppable."

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The idea that single class characters would actually get a significant focused scale seems to be a bit forgotten, so I too wonder what happened.

Great question for someone with a Tumblr account

 

I occasionally ask Josh questions on Tumblr but I always seem to miss the windows where he goes on a reply spree.

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re: relative powers of single class rogue vs. multiclassed

 

V5KrN3y.png

 

I remember in the campaign he said Sneak Attack would start off weaker and scale with level. Wonder what happened to that idea.

 

Yes I thought they would scale class abilities by power level but either they give full boost or they scale with level and not power level making those abilities same for multi vs single. maybe they abandoned it when they changed multi classing from picking class per level to just taking both at beginning of game. 

Edited by draego
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Shipboard canon that fires circus clowns onto the enemy deck to distract and confuse. OK, maybe that last one is a little overboard but quite entertaining.

I see what you did there (did you intend to?)

 

To avoid "Clown Overboard" you'd obviously have to judge your angle of fire correctly to the distance of the enemy ship :aiee:

 

---

 

More on-topic - I'm glad single class rogues might get a balancing boost - I also thought that scaling sneak-attack with (class-not-character-) level was a good idea - mayhaps I'm missing technical reasons that it didn't balance properly.

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> Josh: None of the paladin orders in Deadfire should have drawbacks anymore.

 

For real?

 

That's amazing, I actually might make a Pala-ok no, there is no way I'm going to play a stinking Paladin =)

 

Jokes aside, if there's no base class then the subclasses should definitely have lenient or nonexistent penalties.

 

Are they doing something similar for the Priest subclasses I wonder?  Since the same problem affects them, can't pick a base class without penalties...

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removing the paladin malus were a mistake.  am not suggesting it is bad to have paladins who do not suffer a limiting drawback, but the thing is, the paladin boons were seeming balanced 'gainst the malus.  give up auras would be a serious handicap for a goldpact knight, but the armour bonus is also strong.  kindwayfarer bonus, on the other hand, while a nice little free heal, particular at lower levels, isn't in the same class as the goldpact bonus. sure, there is rp reasons for choosing kindwayfarer over goldpact, and there is a handful o' builds which would still have Gromnir choose kindwayfarer instead o' goldpact, but in general, choose kindwayfarer or darcozzi paladini is a bit underwhelming.

 

paladins were a strong choice for single class or multi-class when they all suffered malus.  the paladin orders were also relative balanced, if imperfectly so.  remove malus made an already powerful class even stronger and made it so a couple paladin orders now appear to be clear wins relative to the remaining orders.  as such, the obsidian choice to remove the paladin malus were... odd. removal did not appear to address a gameplay or balance need, and the removal actual introduced a class imbalance which did not exist previous. 

 

however, is oldish kinda news.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

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removing the paladin malus were a mistake.  am not suggesting it is bad to have paladins who do not suffer a limiting drawback, but the thing is, the paladin boons were seeming balanced 'gainst the malus.  give up auras would be a serious handicap for a goldpact knight, but the armour bonus is also strong.  kindwayfarer bonus, on the other hand, while a nice little free heal, particular at lower levels, isn't in the same class as the goldpact bonus. sure, there is rp reasons for choosing kindwayfarer over goldpact, and there is a handful o' builds which would still have Gromnir choose kindwayfarer instead o' goldpact, but in general, choose kindwayfarer or darcozzi paladini is a bit underwhelming.

 

paladins were a strong choice for single class or multi-class when they all suffered malus.  the paladin orders were also relative balanced, if imperfectly so.  remove malus made an already powerful class even stronger and made it so a couple paladin orders now appear to be clear wins relative to the remaining orders.  as such, the obsidian choice to remove the paladin malus were... odd. removal did not appear to address a gameplay or balance need, and the removal actual introduced a class imbalance which did not exist previous. 

 

however, is oldish kinda news.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I despised all the Paladin drawbacks.  I see what you're saying about balance, though.

 

If Pallies had a base class with no drawbacks/penalties then I'd be fine with the drawbacks being in place for the subclasses.

Edited by Yosharian
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> Josh: None of the paladin orders in Deadfire should have drawbacks anymore.

 

For real?

 

That's amazing, I actually might make a Pala-ok no, there is no way I'm going to play a stinking Paladin =)

 

Jokes aside, if there's no base class then the subclasses should definitely have lenient or nonexistent penalties.

 

Are they doing something similar for the Priest subclasses I wonder?  Since the same problem affects them, can't pick a base class without penalties...

 

The Priest's penalties has already been removed.

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Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


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> Josh: None of the paladin orders in Deadfire should have drawbacks anymore.

 

For real?

 

That's amazing, I actually might make a Pala-ok no, there is no way I'm going to play a stinking Paladin =)

 

Jokes aside, if there's no base class then the subclasses should definitely have lenient or nonexistent penalties.

 

Are they doing something similar for the Priest subclasses I wonder? Since the same problem affects them, can't pick a base class without penalties...

The Priest's penalties has already been removed.

Sweet!

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removing the paladin malus were a mistake.  am not suggesting it is bad to have paladins who do not suffer a limiting drawback, but the thing is, the paladin boons were seeming balanced 'gainst the malus.  give up auras would be a serious handicap for a goldpact knight, but the armour bonus is also strong.  kindwayfarer bonus, on the other hand, while a nice little free heal, particular at lower levels, isn't in the same class as the goldpact bonus. sure, there is rp reasons for choosing kindwayfarer over goldpact, and there is a handful o' builds which would still have Gromnir choose kindwayfarer instead o' goldpact, but in general, choose kindwayfarer or darcozzi paladini is a bit underwhelming.

 

paladins were a strong choice for single class or multi-class when they all suffered malus.  the paladin orders were also relative balanced, if imperfectly so.  remove malus made an already powerful class even stronger and made it so a couple paladin orders now appear to be clear wins relative to the remaining orders.  as such, the obsidian choice to remove the paladin malus were... odd. removal did not appear to address a gameplay or balance need, and the removal actual introduced a class imbalance which did not exist previous. 

 

however, is oldish kinda news.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

I despised all the Paladin drawbacks.  I see what you're saying about balance, though.

 

If Pallies had a base class with no drawbacks/penalties then I'd be fine with the drawbacks being in place for the subclasses.

 

 

It might have made sense to make Goldpact Knights, the neutralest order, the 'base' (with the option to pick an unmodified SE, FoD, or LoH) and kept the rest of the orders the same.

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Seriously I don't understand the problem with Multiclass / Singleclass problem.

 

There is only one tool to use : Power Level.

 

This "thing" is the key for balance between single and multi. There are no others solutions.

 

Because if you nerf 20 % or x or y, you put multiclass at the good level, but you put single class even lower.

 

So, to avoid this gap phenomenon, you must use power level, or whatever its name or form. In short "The moving variable".

 

I repeat myself but : (example of Flame of Devotion)

 

Multi Accuracy +20 Fire damage+30 % (20 % + 10 % PL)

Single Accuracy +20 Fire damage+50 % (20 % + 30 % PL)

 

For the rogue, the problematic rogue : two possibilities :

 

Exemple of his actual +50 % with afflictions :

 

1)

Single class : 80 % (40 % + 40 % PL)

Multiclass : 50 % (40 % + 10 % PL)

 

or we thinking 50 % is the max :

 

2)

Single class : 50 % (20 % + 30 PL)

Multiclass : 35 % (20 % + 15 PL)

Edited by theBalthazar
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Weird question.  Of course they would chose to bring back the companions who still have some unresolved issues.  Admittedly, my taste in RPG companions is probably in opposition to that of the questioner-- where he/she sees "slight variation of a cliché," I see "has a relatably human outlook" (if a bit underwritten in cases).  That translates much better to the new settings/themes/whatever of a sequel than do "high-concept" characters whose core "thing" got old long before Pillars 1 wrapped up.  (Zahua's cool, though.)  Moreover, GM has little reason to be an adventurer anymore, the Devil is dead in all endings, and Durance, if alive, probably has little inclination to leave the Dyrwood. 

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I think Durance is the main one who could have come over, as he very much has unfinished business with the gods if he's alive at the end of Pillars, and considering that Eothas is the only god who's been recently dead, he'd definitely have things to talk about with him. But I absolutely understand why they didn't want to touch Avellone's character.

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Based on the endings to the first Pillars, I can see the following ones making a return appearance:

 

Durance - the ending in which he survives states that he's become a wanderer, which means his search for a "mechanism of revenge" *could* bring him to the Deadfire.

Kana - he's the most likely in my opinion, simply due to the sisterly connection. At least one of the endings also mentions that he "set sail on yet another expedition". But several others do suggest he simply returns to Rauatai, and unless his business brings him to the Deadfire for some unknown reason, we might simply hear of him through Maia instead.

Sagani - ehh... Maybe. It really depends on whether we get to explore Naasitaq or not at all. Maybe in an expansion.

Hiravias - much like Durance's ending above, Hiravias also becomes a wanderer, regardless of having followed Wael or Galawain. Wael's ending says he "ventured beyond the sights of the mountains of Eir Glanfath", which suggests he didn't just remain wandering within the Dyrwood/Eastern Reach.

Maneha - in two of the three endings she remains either an adventurer or a Giftbearer, thus meaning she could be anywhere and very well be in the Deadfire. If you dissuaded her from forgetting the memories, however, she does return to Rauatai and it's thus unlikely that she'll be seen in the game.

The Devil of Caroc - ehh... I seriously doubt this one, but if we killed Harmke she eventually makes her way into the ocean - we *could* therefore find some remains of her body, but doubtful that we'll be able to interact with her still alive though (maybe through Watcher senses?).

Zahua - if we do not complete his quest he also becomes a wanderer. However there are also a few ways to complete his quest and have him go to Defiance Bay - if we are able to explore Defiance Bay at the beginning of Deadfire we *could* cross him. Doubtful though.

 

So with all of these in mind it turns out that the *only* one I do not see returning whatsoever is the Grieving Mother (edit: there is a way in which she can return, which is if we get to visit Dyrford at the start of the game, and she in her epilogue returned to Dyrford herself). As for the options above I also don't think all of them will make an appearance - we might see a companion or two making a cameo only. Venturing a guess I would say Sagani in an expansion, and Kana and Maneha if the endings justify their appearance. But all the same, each do seem to leave an option open with which to return in either Deadfire or a future Pillars game.

Edited by algroth
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I'm confused as what counts as crit path stuff here. Ideally I'd just scale the main story and whatever the DLC turns out to be down the road (because I'd be playing it with an endgame character), but it's not clear whether the DLC would count as crit path, so maybe I should just scale everything...

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