Jump to content

Recommended Posts

 

Stuff is wrapping up:

https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/967567586035560448

 

 

"It is still me, your pal Pallegina... the paladin."

 

Seriously? lol

I better be able to respond with:

"Doesn't ring a bell, now get off my doorstep"

 

 

That's probably when she answer "If you keep this up, I will peck your eyes out, di verus".

  • Like 2

Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


Link to post
Share on other sites

 

 

Stuff is wrapping up:

https://twitter.com/jesawyer/status/967567586035560448

 

 

"It is still me, your pal Pallegina... the paladin."

 

Seriously? lol

I better be able to respond with:

"Doesn't ring a bell, now get off my doorstep"

 

 

That's probably when she answer "If you keep this up, I will peck your eyes out, di verus".

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3QMcVu0jqgY

Link to post
Share on other sites

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/171289309831/various-deadfire-changes

 

 

 

We’ve had a lot of good feedback from the Backer Beta, both in terms of online anecdotes/experiences on the Obsidian forums and myriad offsites as well as the telemetric data we’ve been collecting from players.
 
There’s been a lot of feedback about spellcasting times, especially for characters like ciphers, the dominance of certain martial characters (especially multiclass combos), penetration, etc.
 
Here are some general changes we’ve made that will appear sometime in a future Backer Beta update:
 
* Canceling an action no longer consumes the resource for that action (including item use).  This includes moving, switching actions, or simply canceling.  Resources are now consumed on the launch frame or when actively Interrupted. Yes, you can actively early cancel to avoid an Interrupt if you are a pinball wizard with high APMs.
 
* Cipher Focus gain per point of damage has been doubled.
 
* Following feedback on MaxQuest’s cast/recovery speed mod, the cast times of many cipher spells have been reduced, the Long Cast and Recovery times have been lowered, and most weapon summons have been moved from Long to Average cast (I’ll say this is against my better judgment, because those weapons are ludicrously powerful IME).
 
* Weapons have been unified into two major categories: Average Penetration and High Penetration.  Damaging spells have largely been moved up into Average Penetration values if they weren’t already.  “Best of” weapons have 1 point lower Penetration than single damage type weapons, e.g. a sabre at 7 Slash and a sword at 6/6 Slash/Pierce.  Damage values on weapons have generally come down a bit, especially on weapons that were previously in the Low Pen category.
 
* We are implementing a combat speed slider on the main HUD to adjust your combat speed to slower or faster speeds as your heart desires.
 
Here are some future/speculative things in the works:
 
* Rogues are in a weird place.  Our telemetrics data shows them as being fairly modest in DPS terms when single-classed, but often among the most powerful characters when multiclassed.  There are many possible reasons for this: 1) combining with other martial classes increases durability and/or stacks passive damage bonuses 2) combining with other martial classes makes players more likely to put them in heavier armor, which also increases their survivability 3) some particularly crazy combination of abilities.  We’re examining the telemetrics data further to gain more insight.
 
* There are certainly some goofball combinations floating around, notably monk/wizard when console hacked to higher levels (probably a combination of Swift Strikes, Citzal’s Spirit Lance, and other goodies).
 
* We continue to talk regularly about Might/Strength and Resolve.  As always, there are difficult problems to solve here.  The easiest path would be to revert to the way Pillars I Might and Resolve worked, which seemingly would make more players happier and result in less weirdness when building certain character classes.  We had high hopes (or I did, anyway) for the Concentration gain idea, but there were logistical problems and practical balance problems with that approach.  We also discussed a passive Power Level gain derived from Resolve, but that also ran into problems.  We don’t have much time left to mess around with base attributes, so we’re discussing one final idea, which focuses on adding a random chance to Empower (or Depower, with low Resolve) any active ability when used after a short time has elapsed in combat.  If this design does not pan out, we are likely to revert to Pillars I Might/Resolve.
 
There are myriad other minor and not-so-minor bugfixes and adjustments in the works, but these are the ones that seem of greatest interest to the community at large.  Thanks for reading.
 
(end josh post)
 
initial observations:
 
am actual kinda disappointed 'bout a reversion to might.  am much enjoying a templar tank with high resolve.
 
haven't played a vanilla cipher since first beta release, but have been doing runs with party loadouts based on revealed companion classes.  our knock-off blue monkey is not suffering any kinda' shortage o' focus.  as a witch, a hearth orlan is doing monster damage and using an offhand club with modal activated when necessary, is getting good use o' powers opposed by will. 
 
our feelings 'bout summoned weapons were made clear early after beta were initial released.  am frequent disagreeing with josh, but not 'bout summoned weapons. 
 
negating the loss o' resources for cancelled actions is a much appreciated change.  
 
HA! Good Fun!

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to what Josh said I guess what also makes rogues powerful in multiclasses is the combination of additive damage bonuses (Sneak Attack, Assassinate, Backstab and so on) with lashes (monk/priest/paladin). First boost the initial damage roll additively while the second, multiplicatively calculated lash profits immensely from that.

 

I did assassinations with over 300 damage with a Bleak Walker/Assassin in beta1 and keep doing over 200 in beta3 because of that, instantly killing the target. Also Backstabs with a spiritual great sword are mean.

 

Still don't know why Firebrand should be called ludicrously powerful... I mean except if every great sword is ludicrously powerful of course.

Citzal's Spirit Lance and Minor Blights wouldn't be so powerful if the on-hit and on-crit effects would be removed from the AoE rolls. I mean Arterial Strike in an AoE... still don't get how you can alter Carnage so that it doesn't do this anymore and then introduce the same game breaking problem to Citzal's Spirit Lance and Minor Blights and Blast.

The lash on spiritual weapons is just a bit too high. On the other hand the duration is pretty short...

Edited by Boeroer
  • Like 4

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

Link to post
Share on other sites

One would hope that their metrics do some sort of screening for l33tness.  Otherwise, mediocre results from single-classed Rogues could  be heavily influenced by dilettantes like me underutilizing the Mercenary Rogue, while serious grognards who can sink dozens of hours into a Beta are wrecking faces with their Devoted/Assassin (or whatever). 

 

(Granted, this could probably be said of any class, but I wouldn't be surprised if Rogue were the class where the difference was the most striking.)

Edited by Enoch
Link to post
Share on other sites

Voiceover work underway.  Carrie Patel reports that Matt Mercer was in the studio yesterday, recording Aloth's lines.

 

I'm hoping that at some point during the game, someone in the party (maybe the Watcher him/herself) gets the idea somehow that Eder is the man to ask for what time it is.

 

I hope it becomes a running gag, with every Companion taking their turns to ask him the same question, and Eder finding all sorts of increasingly ridiculous excuses to avoid answering the question.

 

To cap it off, I hope the gag ends with Iselmyr getting sick of the nonsense, and giving the answer in complete, glorious Hylspeak.

 

:grin:

Link to post
Share on other sites

so on the one hand casters suck in part 'cause casting times are so slow-- barely even have time to cast those fireballs obsidian developers crow 'bout 'fore a combat ends.  on the other hand, a summoned weapon with a base 30 second duration is deemed "pretty short."

 

...

 

am wishing folks would be a bit more consistent with their criticisms.  is hard to decide which bit o' puffery is hyperbolic and which is meant with seriousness.

 

HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 1

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Link to post
Share on other sites

You mean it's hard for you personally? Maybe got vaccinated too often... ;)

 

I meant it's pretty short compared to other summoned weapons like Firebrand (60 sec) so I guess it has to be better. I still think 50% is too good. Also because most fights are indeed not longer than 30 secs (on normal). So 50% for 30 sec compared to 0% for 60 sec seems a bit unbalanced.

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

Link to post
Share on other sites

Citzal's Spirit Lance and Minor Blights wouldn't be so powerful if the on-hit and on-crit effects would be removed from the AoE rolls. I mean Arterial Strike in an AoE... still don't get how you can alter Carnage so that it doesn't do this anymore and then introduce the same game breaking problem to Citzal's Spirit Lance and Minor Blights and Blast.

 

Agreed. I think removing on-hit and on-crit effects from Carnage, whilst a bit of a shame from the point of view of build variety, was the right choice (particularly with all the interactions added with multiclassing). It seems odd that Obsidian didn't do the same with the Spirit Lance and the Minor Blights (hopefully they'll change it).

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

Josh long post about future changes is really interesting.

I am looking forward to the next update to see the changes.

 

Looks like the general rule of thumb from NWN2 is still true: multi class martial chars, single class casters.

At least I played that way in the beta.

Link to post
Share on other sites

In addition to what Josh said I guess what also makes rogues powerful in multiclasses is the combination of additive damage bonuses (Sneak Attack, Assassinate, Backstab and so on) with lashes (monk/priest/paladin). First boost the initial damage roll additively while the second, multiplicatively calculated lash profits immensely from that.

 

I did assassinations with over 300 damage with a Bleak Walker/Assassin in beta1 and keep doing over 200 in beta3 because of that, instantly killing the target. Also Backstabs with a spiritual great sword are mean.

 

That's simply because Rogue ability scales badly with level isn't it? You get sneak attack +50% damage at lvl 1 and then backstabing at lvl 2, then invisible at lvl 3, well you are all set for a good spike damage dealer. And then it's higher level abilities(both active and passive) just not scales too well and feel pretty weak.

 

This makes multiclass Rogue feels extremly powerful while single class Rogue doesnt have much more to offer. One solution is delay the level u can get backstabbing and invisible. 

 

Another long term solution(and for all classes) is making abilities scales with PowerLevel better as many suggested here.

  • Like 6
Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly. Or give rogues some really good abilities on higher levels. I mean mechanically good/interesting like Arterial Strike or Confounded Blind, but more powerful. Deathblows sounds nice and all, but +100% weapon base damage against single targets isn't very impressive in the lateish game when you get plastered with damage bonuses anyways - while others gain stuff like Heart of Fury or Charge or Sacred Immolation or whatever.

 

It merely adds your weapon base damage to your hits which isn't multiplicative. It would be better to give the rogue multiplicative, lash-like abilities for the higher levels. Something like a poisonous blade modal which ads high corrode damage but slows you down a bit - or maybe even the ability to passively re-enter stealth. Or something defensive like an upgrade to Adept Evasion which the also works with deflection.

 

But maybe stuff like that is already in the making, who knows? We didn't see the highest tiers yet.

Edited by Boeroer

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

Link to post
Share on other sites

It merely adds your weapon base damage to your hits which isn't multiplicative. It would be better to give the rogue multiplicative, lash-like abilities for the higher levels. Something like a poisonous blade modal which ads high corrode damage but slows you down a bit - or maybe even the ability to passively re-enter stealth. Or something defensive like an upgrade to Adept Evasion which the also works with deflection.

 

Weirdly, based on the leaked skill names, it almost looks like ranger is going to be the class to get passive stealth entry, with superior and active camoflage. Obviously, we won't know until the actual skill descriptions are released, but it seems hard to imagine what else those will be.

Link to post
Share on other sites

Exactly. Or give rogues some really good abilities on higher levels. I mean mechanically good/interesting like Arterial Strike or Confounded Blind, but more powerful. Deathblows sounds nice and all, but +100% weapon base damage against single targets isn't very impressive in the lateish game when you get plastered with damage bonuses anyways - while others gain stuff like Heart of Fury or Charge or Sacred Immolation or whatever.

 

It merely adds your weapon base damage to your hits which isn't multiplicative. It would be better to give the rogue multiplicative, lash-like abilities for the higher levels. Something like a poisonous blade modal which ads high corrode damage but slows you down a bit - or maybe even the ability to passively re-enter stealth. Or something defensive like an upgrade to Adept Evasion which the also works with deflection.

 

But maybe stuff like that is already in the making, who knows? We didn't see the highest tiers yet.

 

Top level abillty for rogues (single class only): Every time you kill an enemy with a critical hit you become invisible for 5 sec. ;)

Link to post
Share on other sites

Powerful. But I can't see the reasoning. :)

 

How about: "Killing Spree": every time the rogue kills an enemy he gains 20% attack speed (stackable) till the end of battle. Since a lot of speed bonuses have diminishing returns it will not become overly powerful with a lot of kills.

Deadfire Community Patch: Nexus Mods

Link to post
Share on other sites

Another long term solution(and for all classes) is making abilities scales with PowerLevel better as many suggested here.

 

It almost feels like Obsidian are a little scared of using their Power Level system too much, with passives/abilities not scaling off it at all, or scaling in a mostly meaningless way.

 

An obvious example is summoned weapons, whose actual damage and accuracy scale with character level rather than power level meaning a Fighter/Wizard summons just as powerful a Citzal's Spirit Lance as a single class Nature Godlike Conjurer under the effect of Wellspring of Life. To my mind at least this doesn't make sense either from a lore perspective (surely the specialist should be able to summon the better weapon) or from a balance perspective (the single class conjurer doesn't get access to the fighter's various abilities and passives that improve melee performance).

  • Like 4
Link to post
Share on other sites

I agree entirely, but we've been saying this since beta1. It isn't accidental at this point. They just disagree with us.

 

Yes but they are wrong and we are right  :lol:

 

More seriously, if Josh genuinely believes summoned weapons are so powerful then I don't know why they'd disagree with us.

  • Like 2
Link to post
Share on other sites

From Josh

 

My current math pegs it at 3% per point over/under 10, so at 20 you're looking at a 30% chance to Empower any given ability. Casters, in particular, tend to use more abilities over the course of fights (especially as levels stack up), so I think it could be especially appealing.

 
The rational side of me doesn't like the idea of investing in Yahtzee attributes, but a lot of people enjoy the occasional super saiyan moments.
 
if your going with percent chance stuff maybe you can do a small percent chance to upgrade your miss->graze->hit->crit. This would affect more stuff than empower but still cause the same randomness so doesnt really solve that issue. 
Edited by draego
Link to post
Share on other sites

From Josh

 

 

My current math pegs it at 3% per point over/under 10, so at 20 you're looking at a 30% chance to Empower any given ability. Casters, in particular, tend to use more abilities over the course of fights (especially as levels stack up), so I think it could be especially appealing.

 

The rational side of me doesn't like the idea of investing in Yahtzee attributes, but a lot of people enjoy the occasional super saiyan moments.

 

 

if your going with percent chance stuff maybe you can do a small percent chance to upgrade your miss->graze->hit->crit. This would affect more stuff than empower.

I feel like Josh needs to start trusting his better judgement more.

Link to post
Share on other sites

You mean it's hard for you personally? Maybe got vaccinated too often... ;)

 

I meant it's pretty short compared to other summoned weapons like Firebrand (60 sec) so I guess it has to be better. I still think 50% is too good. Also because most fights are indeed not longer than 30 secs (on normal). So 50% for 30 sec compared to 0% for 60 sec seems a bit unbalanced.

ah.  so what you actual meant were that the priestly lash weapons have effective a long duration, able to last an entire standard combat encounter. entire combat is not "pretty short," but only relative short when compared to one specific summoned weapon: the unnecessarily long enduring firebrand. converse, spells with durations far exceeding the standard combat duration might deserve 'pointlessly long' as a descriptor, yes? after all, 30 seconds is not pretty short compared to combat duration o' most priestly spells with a duration... with the notable exception o' seal spells... for obvious reasons.  half expect boeroer to use searing seal as the benchmark for duration if we don't specific mention. relative to other priestly combat enhancer spells, spiritual weapon duration is average.  champion's boon is single target and is 30 seconds.  litany of body and litany of spirit is similar single-target and 30 second base.  holy meditation can buff a party as 'posed to a single player, but the duration is a mere ten seconds, with a cast time of three seconds and a recovery o' four.  we would use "pretty short" to describe holy meditation, but it seems to be the outlier as holy power, which provides a similar tier 1 inspiration to potential multiple players (albeit with a smallish radius-from-caster,) lasts 30 seconds.  given how admitted powerful the priestly lash weapons are, a standard duration capable o' lasting entire ordinary combat, don't seem particular short. 

 

as an aside, am not suggesting boeroer is accurate with his guesstimate of typical combat encounter duration.  is hyperbole.  as noted elsewhere, am as often as not exhausting our caster combat repertoire in beta encounters. sure, is a fair number o' exceeding brief encounters, and Gromnir is typical playing veteran, but am also having far more experience with poe than a typical deadfire purchaser will.  we use standard merc party or, more recent, companion analogs as 'posed to ridiculous optimized customs who is meant to exploit balance problems.  exploitive is also not gonna be typical, is it? 

 

as an aside, the one thing we would wish changed which did not get mention by josh is a complete revamping o' penetration.  in all fairness, is probable too late for so such a change, but penetration is, in our mind, fatal broken. admitted, poe dr scheme did not scale particular well, so is not as if the previous mechanic were the proverbial shining beacon on the hill.  unfortunately, penetration v. armour appears utter unfixable to our mind.  at the moment, there is little/no motivation to wear light armour, and even medium armours is a suspect choice, save for encounters involving specific elemental or unique damage-type reliant enemies.  is not quite a matter o' go plate, or go naked, but am admitted seeing the the disproportionate benefits o' armour.  goldpact's boon and bear shape for druids is conferring quasi invulnerability during any save boss encounters. however, am suspecting enemy penetration will scale, with boss critters having typical overwhelming penetration.  am genuine curious what kinda penetration we is gonna see from dragons.  will it make more sense for an entire party to simple fight naked?  hope not. 

 

odd, but penetration were even more o' an alpha and omega issue at release o' first beta build.  failure o' penetration to at least equal armour meant a weapon or spell were functional useless.  the drastic extreme o' penetration has been curtailed a bit, but unfortunately, any number o' spells and weapons are still balanced with beta 1 penetration as a primary factor.  any beta folks planning on taking warhammer proficiency? 

 

is too late to scrap penetration v. armour.  however, am admitted baffled by obsidian ignorance o' a problem pre-beta.  am genuine curious how the penetration scheme got from drawing board to beta w/o the developers recognizing problems.  haven't yet seen an elegant solution from community or developers to what we see as the problem o' penetration.  however, the failure o' Gromnir imagination and the absence o' solution now do not preclude the possibility o' a future epiphany, so whenever we see obsidian plans for future deadfire improvements, we hope for a penetration fix.  

 

HA! Good Fun!

  • Like 1

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

Link to post
Share on other sites

 

https://jesawyer.tumblr.com/post/171289309831/various-deadfire-changes

* We continue to talk regularly about Might/Strength and Resolve.  As always, there are difficult problems to solve here.  The easiest path would be to revert to the way Pillars I Might and Resolve worked, which seemingly would make more players happier and result in less weirdness when building certain character classes.  We had high hopes (or I did, anyway) for the Concentration gain idea, but there were logistical problems and practical balance problems with that approach.  We also discussed a passive Power Level gain derived from Resolve, but that also ran into problems.  We don’t have much time left to mess around with base attributes, so we’re discussing one final idea, which focuses on adding a random chance to Empower (or Depower, with low Resolve) any active ability when used after a short time has elapsed in combat.  If this design does not pan out, we are likely to revert to Pillars I Might/Resolve.
 

 

 

 

From Josh

 

My current math pegs it at 3% per point over/under 10, so at 20 you're looking at a 30% chance to Empower any given ability. Casters, in particular, tend to use more abilities over the course of fights (especially as levels stack up), so I think it could be especially appealing.

 
The rational side of me doesn't like the idea of investing in Yahtzee attributes, but a lot of people enjoy the occasional super saiyan moments.

 

 

Wait, what? The whole issue came from Resolve being a weak stat, so they moved spell damage to it. Now they discuss empower chance being added to it and if that makes no sense they revert back to might for all? So either Resolve: +spell damage and power level OR back to Might for convential damage and spell damage with nothing for resolve. Wouldn't it rather be if they revert back, resolve gets this bonus? Or does that mean, no more spell damage bonus whatsoever? Wouldn't that make strength a dump stat again? I don't get it. And what is "a short time elapse"? Sure that avoids opening with a lucky break, but I don't like hard caps.

  • Like 1
Link to post
Share on other sites

 

From Josh

 

My current math pegs it at 3% per point over/under 10, so at 20 you're looking at a 30% chance to Empower any given ability. Casters, in particular, tend to use more abilities over the course of fights (especially as levels stack up), so I think it could be especially appealing.

 

The rational side of me doesn't like the idea of investing in Yahtzee attributes, but a lot of people enjoy the occasional super saiyan moments.

 

if your going with percent chance stuff maybe you can do a small percent chance to upgrade your miss->graze->hit->crit. This would affect more stuff than empower.

I feel like Josh needs to start trusting his better judgement more.

 

 

His better judgment is why we had "ultra powerful" summon weapons that takes an eternity to cast so nobody use them.

Edited by morhilane

Azarhal, Chanter and Keeper of Truth of the Obsidian Order of Eternity.


Link to post
Share on other sites
Guest
This topic is now closed to further replies.
×
×
  • Create New...