Political Ocean's 11

[Hurlshort]

 

It's the same concept. Movie theatres already do this and if you look at the movie rating you'll see why it got the rating it did. You could easily do this in a book or whatever to give a forewarning of any upsetting content.

Arent movie rating specifically gated by age? See, at a certain age that we are consider adults (18 in the US) and thus able to view whatever we choose.

 

 

They have a little box with all of the reasons why the movies is rated at that age.

[Blarghagh]

 

The best intention of a trigger warning is to try to allow the PTSD sufferer to prepare themselves as best as possible for something that may "put them back" at the point of their trauma (which may be terrifying, but isn't necessary a state of 'abject terror'). As I mentioned I think the psychological science on the subject is divided over it from my own (admittedly limited) reading, but I'm not sure in and of itself is a dumb idea. If a strict avoidance is helpful in recovery, then clearly it'd be the opposite of dumb to encourage. If - as some of the literature I've read is true - that it may not help the long term recovery of a PTSD sufferer, than I'd argue its misguided rather than dumb.

How finely granulated should this consideration be? If even one person has an issue? 5? 10?

 

 

Yeah, none of those things are comparable. I'm just as confounded that that toothpicks have warnings about pointy ends as you are. If they were, I'm still not sure why this is the one where the line must be drawn.

 

But this isn't 'gosh, boiling water might be hot'. This is more like 'the ingredients should state there's peanuts because I have allergies that could cause serious damage or death'. Remove the 'you shouldn't microwave your cat' warnings all you want, knock yourself out. This is and will never be one of them.

 

Either way, I still don't get your problem. You just said you were magnanamous enough to tell them, but now you're saying you won't because you think it's dumb? If you're so goddamn strong, why can't you deal with seeing an occassional warning that would be a damn sight more useful than most? Why are you completely invested against something that doesn't affect you anymore than that freaking green 'this movie is rated PG-13 bar at the start of a film and would be appreciated by a lot more people than that useless arbitrary number?

 

Because it's 'dumb'? Well suck it up, snowflake.

Oh boy, I see we have completely departed from grownup conversation. Maybe go take a timeout and cool off? Probably better if we just agree to disagree.

 

And for the rest, please, for the love of your god, DO NOT go watch the Punisher trailer I posted in the other thread. Don't need people evacuating their bowels due to fictional depictions of blood, face punching, gun shooting, and knife...knifing.

I thought we left it when you compared PTSD warnings to being afraid of the bogeyman. But fair enough, if you can't deal with some pertinent consumer information being made available where it doesn't even affect you at all, then you can't. I'll accept your mental limitations.

 

Even if you won't for others.

[Blarghagh]

 

 

It's the same concept. Movie theatres already do this and if you look at the movie rating you'll see why it got the rating it did. You could easily do this in a book or whatever to give a forewarning of any upsetting content.

Arent movie rating specifically gated by age? See, at a certain age that we are consider adults (18 in the US) and thus able to view whatever we choose.

They have a little box with all of the reasons why the movies is rated at that age.

To be fair, it's entirely arbitrary. Conjuring was rated R for 'oppressive atmosphere'. I'd trade it for more useful trigger warnings in a heartbeat.

[Gfted1]

 

"Waa, youre a poopy head for having different opinions on matters." There, there.

 

Back to movie ratings. Why do you suppose there are ages related to the ratings? Because we assume that as people age, they become more able to handle the slings and arrows of fictional stories or recreations.

 

Rated G: General Audiences – all ages admitted. Rated PG: Parental Guidance Suggested – some material may not be suitable for children. Rated PG-13: Parents Strongly Cautioned – some material may be inappropriate for children under 13. Rated R: Restricted – under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian.

G = No cursing

PG = No nudity

R = No penetration

 

Not: "Hey, someone you know got crapped on and this movie shows someone getting crapped on, so beware.

[BruceVC]

 

 

 

 

Look at it on the bright side. If universities keep churning out legions milk blooded lilting pansies then in a few more years we'll going to take this whole f-----g show over and run this place!

Who is we in this context?

Well, I was really attempting to be humorous by ripping off a line from the original Planet of the Apes. But to answer your question the "we" would be the people who can read f-----g play without feeling so traumatized they need to see a f-----g therapist afterwards.

Well some people that were victims of attacks like in the play might have some reason to be upset. There is a warning in the notes, how is that skin off your nose?

 

 

c'mon, what percentage of people these days are personally exposed to rape or murder? 0,01%?

 

In South Africa they say we have a "rape culture "

 

http://www.destinyconnect.com/2017/07/11/rape-culture-south-africa/

 

I dont like the term "rape culture " because it applies rape is almost acceptable in South Africa, its not. Its a blight and scourge on our society and everyone I know is vociferously opposed to it and its often discussed and harshly criticized...but it is one of several societal problems we grapple with on an almost daily basis

 

I dont know  a single person who doesn't know at least one women who hasn't been raped or a victim of sexual violence so your 0.0.1% numbers are horribly inaccurate 

 

Statistically we probably have about 200 reported rapes a day, our population is 56 million so thats quite high 

 

http://rapecrisis.org.za/rape-in-south-africa/

 

And I can share one more thing, as a man its one of the worst experiences and utterly emasculating when you have any lady in your life who is a  victim of rape because all the words of support and comfort you think you will say to help them suddenly seem irrelevant compared to there real trauma and emotional state 

[Blarghagh]

Yeah, you made those guidelines up. In reality, the ratings will cite any reason they wish. A movie in which the C-word is uttered is rated R for sexual abuse and so is one that features graphic rape as long as it doesn't show the dreaded peen. The ratings are a pointless abomination. The Matrix is R and The Ring is PG-13.

[Malcador]

 

"Waa, youre a poopy head for having different opinions on matters." There, there.

 

 

Kind of rich coming from you, heh.

[injurai]

Movie/game ratings are essentially trigger warnings by a different name. I think to include content warnings is perfectly fine, the difference is that in once instance the responsibility is on the user to approve material for themselves or for those they are guardian to. With trigger warnings, these are things that are not required, but failure to give one is often met with extreme social hostility and tantrums. Solution? Put up content warnings, don't call them trigger warnings. Most of the controversy around them is people "acting triggered" when they aren't really experiencing anything close to a panic episode. When it comes to artistic mediums, I'd expect someone to inform themselves about what they are seeing, and if something is unpleasant to excuse themselves.

 

The most incendiary behavior around trigger warnings is more in the University scene, where there is required course content. Because regardless to whether there are warnings or not, people object wholesale. You have people refusing to deal with the very content of their field. Instead of advocating for their own personal considerations they'll opt instead of publicly demonize a professor and interrupt a whole class. This is the whole issue that I'm more familiar with.

[Blarghagh]

Movie/game ratings are essentially trigger warnings by a different name. I think to include content warnings is perfectly fine, the difference is that in once instance the responsibility is on the user to approve material for themselves or for those they are guardian to. With trigger warnings, these are things that are not required, but failure to give one is often met with extreme social hostility and tantrums. Solution? Put up content warnings, don't call them trigger warnings. Most of the controversy around them is people "acting triggered" when they aren't really experiencing anything close to a panic episode. When it comes to artistic mediums, I'd expect someone to inform themselves about what they are seeing, and if something is unpleasant to excuse themselves.

 

The most incendiary behavior around trigger warnings is more in the University scene, where there is required course content. Because regardless to whether there are warnings or not, people object wholesale. You have people refusing to deal with the very content of their field. Instead of advocating for their own personal considerations they'll opt instead of publicly demonize a professor and interrupt a whole class. This is the whole issue that I'm more familiar with.

So you're saying the problem is that twitter activists and gender studies feminists poisoned people against 'trigger warnings'? Even I give people more credit than that.

[Gfted1]

Yeah, you made those guidelines up. In reality, the ratings will cite any reason they wish. A movie in which the C-word is uttered is rated R for sexual abuse and so is one that features graphic rape as long as it doesn't show the dreaded peen. The ratings are a pointless abomination. The Matrix is R and The Ring is PG-13.

 

*Sigh*

 

Youre not even trying any more.

[ShadySands]

I think trigger warning just has a negative connotation to some at this point so they may reflexively rail against it 

 

I think you may give people too much credit

 

Call it something else and I'd wager you'd get a better reaction

Edited October 19, 2017 by ShadySands

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

 

Yeah, you made those guidelines up. In reality, the ratings will cite any reason they wish. A movie in which the C-word is uttered is rated R for sexual abuse and so is one that features graphic rape as long as it doesn't show the dreaded peen. The ratings are a pointless abomination. The Matrix is R and The Ring is PG-13.

 

 

*Sigh*

 

Youre not even trying any more.

That doesn't address his point, let alone disprove it.

[Blarghagh]

Well it proves he didn't make them up at least, but that doesn't really mean anything since in practice he might as well have.

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

Well it proves he didn't make them up at least, but that doesn't really mean anything since in practice he might as well have.

Those aren't guidelines but rather an explanation of what each rating means. It can't tell you why The Matrix was rated R or why The Ring was PG-13.

[Blarghagh]

I think trigger warning just has a negative connotation to some at this point so they may reflexively rail against it

 

I think you may give people too much credit

 

Call it something else and I'd wager you'd get a better reaction

Maybe you're right, because I can't think of any other reason people don't get up in arms about dryer instructions stating not to use it on babies but this is the one they can't handle.

[Amentep]

 

"Waa, youre a poopy head for having different opinions on matters." There, there.

 

Back to movie ratings. Why do you suppose there are ages related to the ratings? Because we assume that as people age, they become more able to handle the slings and arrows of fictional stories or recreations.

 

Rated G: General Audiences – all ages admitted. Rated PG: Parental Guidance Suggested – some material may not be suitable for children. Rated PG-13: Parents Strongly Cautioned – some material may be inappropriate for children under 13. Rated R: Restricted – under 17 requires accompanying parent or adult guardian.

G = No cursing

PG = No nudity

R = No penetration

 

Not: "Hey, someone you know got crapped on and this movie shows someone getting crapped on, so beware.

 

 

There's been a lot of debate about the arbitrariness of how the MPAA rates movies.  Such as productions callously using the f-word once to guarantee a PG-13 rating.

 

Also PG films (prior to PG-13) allowed brief, non-sexual nudity.  What PG-13 did was ultimately sanitized PG to the point that its hard to determine what it allows that isn't in a G film, and allow more kids to experience almost-R films.

[Chilloutman]

In South Africa they say we have a "rape culture "

 

http://www.destinyconnect.com/2017/07/11/rape-culture-south-africa/

 

I dont like the term "rape culture " because it applies rape is almost acceptable in South Africa, its not. Its a blight and scourge on our society and everyone I know is vociferously opposed to it and its often discussed and harshly criticized...but it is one of several societal problems we grapple with on an almost daily basis

 

I dont know  a single person who doesn't know at least one women who hasn't been raped or a victim of sexual violence so your 0.0.1% numbers are horribly inaccurate 

 

Statistically we probably have about 200 reported rapes a day, our population is 56 million so thats quite high 

 

http://rapecrisis.org.za/rape-in-south-africa/

 

And I can share one more thing, as a man its one of the worst experiences and utterly emasculating when you have any lady in your life who is a  victim of rape because all the words of support and comfort you think you will say to help them suddenly seem irrelevant compared to there real trauma and emotional state

I was talking about civilized parts of the world

 

I think SA have bigger problems which trigger warnings will not fix

Edited October 19, 2017 by Chilloutman

[Ben No.3]

 

 

It's very weird seeing the side who fought christians, Republicans and "upset parents" book burning and censorship and pushed the envelope of raunchyness and uncomfortable truths become the thing they fought against years ago.

It's ass backwards now and has been for some time and still i can't believe it at times.

U stare into the abyss long enough...

Oh no, how dare they... warn people that rape and violence is happening in these plays? Clearly this is the same thing as burning books! something something cultural marxism something something outrage

Not the same thing... but the latter is only a short step from the former.

you can’t be serious? What is essentially a brief summary of certain moments is close to the same as the censorship and symbolic destruction of literature?

 

By that logic, I might as well say book titles are a short step from censorship, because they direct the readers interest without giving him explicit information.

Edited October 19, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Raithe]

Sen. Klobuchar Questions Sen. Sessions on Media Protections

 

Klobuchar: Will you commit to not putting reporters in jail for doing their jobs?

Sessions: I cannot make a blanket commitment to that effect

 

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ppBGvOeIcNE

 

(at the 54:00 mark)

Edited October 19, 2017 by Raithe

[Ben No.3]

Also, why is this talk even a thing?

 

Here’s some actually important information:

-Over the past 12 years, the number of breeding birds in Europe has declined by 15%

-Over the past 27 years, the number of flying insects in Europe of all types has declined by more than 75%

 

Could this perhaps be in any way at least important symptoms of a larger issue? Maybe even causes of bigger problems? Caused by our actions?

 

But instead of taking an honest look at ecological problems; let’s talk about triggers warnings over several pages! Because that sounds like a fundamental issue to modern society.

 

Source;http://www.tagesschau.de/ausland/europa-umwelt-insekten-101.html

Edited October 19, 2017 by Ben No.3

[Elerond]

 

Yeah, you made those guidelines up. In reality, the ratings will cite any reason they wish. A movie in which the C-word is uttered is rated R for sexual abuse and so is one that features graphic rape as long as it doesn't show the dreaded peen. The ratings are a pointless abomination. The Matrix is R and The Ring is PG-13.

 

*Sigh*

 

Youre not even trying any more.

 

 

I think people mix up different rating systems

 

In USA TV programs have content descriptors when they are seen to have something questionable in them

 

Content descriptors

Some thematic elements, according to the FCC, "may call for parental guidance and/or the program may contain one or more of the following" sub-ratings, designated with an alphabetic letter:

D – Suggestive dialogue

L – Coarse or crude language

S – Sexual situations

V – Violence

FV – Fantasy violence

 

 

Here media products (tv-series, movies and games have age ratings and possible content descriptors to explain why it has certain age rating)

 

Contains violence             Contains sex        Contains horror elements     Contains drug use

 

 

Then there is PEGI system that has its own content descriptors

 

 violence

  bad language

 fear/horror

 sex

 drugs

 gambling

 discrimination

and worst of all

 online play option

 

[Guard Dog]

 

 

 

It's very weird seeing the side who fought christians, Republicans and "upset parents" book burning and censorship and pushed the envelope of raunchyness and uncomfortable truths become the thing they fought against years ago.

It's ass backwards now and has been for some time and still i can't believe it at times.

U stare into the abyss long enough...

Oh no, how dare they... warn people that rape and violence is happening in these plays? Clearly this is the same thing as burning books! something something cultural marxism something something outrage

Not the same thing... but the latter is only a short step from the former.

you can’t be serious? What is essentially a brief summary of certain moments is close to the same as the censorship and symbolic destruction of literature?

 

By that logic, I might as well say book titles are a short step from censorship, because they direct the readers interest without giving him explicit information.

 

 

I didn't say they were the same or equate them in any way other than to point out the former is a step (even a small one) in the direction of the latter. 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

I don't understand what's so bad about giving someone information they can make an informed decision about themselves.

 

I think there are two main concerns -

 

Does it help?  If the student still has to experience the 'triggering' content does knowing about it actually make a difference?

 

Does it hurt?  If the student continues to avoid triggering content, are they keeping themselves from healing over the long term?

 

 

 

...How are these even questions? Literally everybody I spoke to who actually attends or lectures at university told me that yes, these things are useful, yes, they help students cope with material that is difficult for them to process, and no, nobody is actually exempt from the normal requirements for successfully completing the course. Trigger warnings don't exist to protect the precious fee-fees of students, they exist to allow them to digest the texts on their own terms. I can't believe there are people who are arguing - no doubt from a position of ignorance, but ignorance should not be an excuse - that there is a positive societal value in expecting people to engage in a demanding intellectual activity while in a state of fight-or-flight panic mode as opposed to, y'know, giving them a heads-up that 'hey, this material might be difficult, so go ahead, take a minute, and prepare yourself so you can engage with it properly'.

 

 

There are some from the psychology/psychiatry area who argue (or have argued, I'm not up to date on it so they may have had further research) that trigger warnings only cause more issues than they solve (I think Richard McNally at Harvard and Metin Basoglu at King's College are the two I remember reading comments from).  At the core of their view was the idea that avoidance not only does not alleviate, but instead may worsen, PTSD (and I believe Basoglu further claims that it can further feelings of helplessness and depression as well).

 

 

 

Yeah, but when the warnings are - at least in an academic context - issued not with the the intent to foster avoidance, but to allow people to gather their bearings before engaging with the material, that complaint rings a bit hollow.

 

 

 

Uhh... I'm genuinely happy that neither you nor anybody close to you has ever experienced rape

Why do I have a feeling you guys start to sound like "you don't know life if you haven't been raped".

 

 

 

...Because you can't differentiate between calls for compassion towards people with a different life experience than yours, and people screaming "you're a cishet white male and therefore your opinion should be discarded forever"?

[Chilloutman]

 

 

Yeah, you made those guidelines up. In reality, the ratings will cite any reason they wish. A movie in which the C-word is uttered is rated R for sexual abuse and so is one that features graphic rape as long as it doesn't show the dreaded peen. The ratings are a pointless abomination. The Matrix is R and The Ring is PG-13.

 

*Sigh*

 

Youre not even trying any more.

 

 

I think people mix up different rating systems

 

In USA TV programs have content descriptors when they are seen to have something questionable in them

 

Content descriptors

Some thematic elements, according to the FCC, "may call for parental guidance and/or the program may contain one or more of the following" sub-ratings, designated with an alphabetic letter:

D – Suggestive dialogue

L – Coarse or crude language

S – Sexual situations

V – Violence

FV – Fantasy violence

 

 

Here media products (tv-series, movies and games have age ratings and possible content descriptors to explain why it has certain age rating)

 

Contains violence             Contains sex        Contains horror elements     Contains drug use

 

 

Then there is PEGI system that has its own content descriptors

 

 violence

  bad language

 fear/horror

 sex

 drugs

 gambling

 discrimination

and worst of all

 online play option

 

 

I dig that discimination one xD

[aluminiumtrioxid]

 

 

 

 

Oh no, how dare they... warn people that rape and violence is happening in these plays? Clearly this is the same thing as burning books! something something cultural marxism something something outrage

Not the same thing... but the latter is only a short step from the former.

you can’t be serious? What is essentially a brief summary of certain moments is close to the same as the censorship and symbolic destruction of literature?

 

By that logic, I might as well say book titles are a short step from censorship, because they direct the readers interest without giving him explicit information.

 

 

I didn't say they were the same or equate them in any way other than to point out the former is a step (even a small one) in the direction of the latter. 

 

 

I'm just going to point out that the slippery slope fallacy is called a fallacy for a reason.