injurai Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Which is odd, because they also go to great lengths to offer very easy modes for your average person. Maybe they should be designing their games around the harder difficulties? I don't know exactly how they do it. They are only human though, so all the issues with real world implementation and a limited amount of time for testing the "statistics" of their system I think also leaves a lot of gaps.
Wormerine Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 There is something weird with Obsidian I have noticed. On one hand they're rpg lovers, like they want to make complex niche rpgs and they show it. On the other, they try to appeal to the mass market. These two come in conflict often and leave their games with bumps here and there. Their games feel they don't have a clear view (with the exception of New Vegas maybe - which might had the same problem if they didn't work on Bethesda's engine) albeit their interesting and innovative ideas. I thought Deadfire would break this circle but I fear it won't... I am really not sure how experimenting with attribute spread has anything to do with appealing to the mass market. It seems pretty in line with what they wanted from PoE system and in line with ideals Josh presented in the GDC talk. From his presentaton: Pillars' Goals: * six atributes - check * class abilities are not explicitly associated with attributes - check. * Influence statistics of importance to all classes linearly - check * Primary goal: "no bad builds" - need to see the beta build but seems like a check. Some multiclassing might get awkward with bad attribute spread. * secondary goal: ensure that dumping stings - check - it seems that in support of this problem the change was made. I certainly wouldn't say their games didn't have clear direction, but they tend to feel like they lack polish. 3
Wormerine Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Which is odd, because they also go to great lengths to offer very easy modes for your average person. Maybe they should be designing their games around the harder difficulties? I don't know exactly how they do it. They are only human though, so all the issues with real world implementation and a limited amount of time for testing the "statistics" of their system I think also leaves a lot of gaps. I am pretty sure Josh said they designed PoE around normal & hard. Why wouldn't you add easier difficulty settings? You wider the target audience without compromising game. 2
MortyTheGobbo Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 My favorite thing about Josh, is that he doesn't hold (that many) sacred cows. If something doesn't work he can revert back, but he is a great catalyst trying to improve upon old cruft that grognards would die for. I may not be a fan of this particular change, but I agree. The RPG genre badly needs people willing to look at the old, tried and true methods and ask "Okay, but do we really need it? Can't we do better?". 2
injurai Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Which is odd, because they also go to great lengths to offer very easy modes for your average person. Maybe they should be designing their games around the harder difficulties? I don't know exactly how they do it. They are only human though, so all the issues with real world implementation and a limited amount of time for testing the "statistics" of their system I think also leaves a lot of gaps. I am pretty sure Josh said they designed PoE around normal & hard. Why wouldn't you add easier difficulty settings? You wider the target audience without compromising game. Well I'm not quite sure what all their design philosophy is grounded in. But I think you may misunderstand me. I'm mean to say that offering a range of difficulty settings is nice for the reason that it reaches a wide audience, without having to sacrifice design ideals that would be appreciated by highly invested users of your game.
Aramintai Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Josh speaks Well, at least he reads some of the stuff we write from the looks of it.
CENIC Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 That last tweet made me feel bad for Josh We only whine because we love the game Josh! I promise! 2 Aloth massages his temples, shaking his head.
Sedrefilos Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Apparently other communities where way more aggressive than us.
injurai Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Apparently other communities where way more aggressive than us. I believe it. But maybe we are only nice because we are almost never given a direct audience. I know the goblins lurk amongst us... 1
Sedrefilos Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 Maybe it is better this way. And maybe Obs should do the unnouncements of the beta changes just when the update is out to avoid all this drama. 2
Wormerine Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 ...maybe dealing with publishers wasn't all that bad. 5
Sedrefilos Posted November 29, 2017 Posted November 29, 2017 ...maybe dealing with publishers wasn't all that bad. That's what I said too back in Pillars 1 beta era when I saw the comments of many former fans then :D 1
Messier-31 Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 Maybe we all shoud wait and see. 2 It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...
Lephys Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) That last tweet made me feel bad for Josh We only whine because we love the game Josh! I promise! That's why some of us whine. Some only whine because they love the whining. I'm just now seeing the news of the stat change (still don't know the full extent of it... it sounds like a "power" split between Strength (previously Might) and Resolve? In which case, cool! I'm eager to see how it turns out and tunes. I'm also interested in Concentration becoming more interesting and valuable. Maybe we all shoud wait and see. Wha...? How dare you, sir! We should obviously all jump to extreme conclusions of pure assumption and speculation! Why would we wait and observe empirical evidence?!!! Can you be-LIEVE THIS GUY?! Edited November 30, 2017 by Lephys 2 Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u
Messier-31 Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 Maybe we all shoud wait and see. Wha...? How dare you, sir! We should obviously all jump to extreme conclusions of pure assumption and speculation! Why would we wait and observe empirical evidence?!!! Can you be-LIEVE THIS GUY?! Dear Sir, I object strongly to the obvious mocking turn this thread has already taken. Why do we never hear about the good things in Britain, like Mary Bignall's wonderful jump in 1964? Yours etc., Ken Voyeur. 1 It would be of small avail to talk of magic in the air...
HooAmEye Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 Apparently other communities where way more aggressive than us. The codex is an awful and horrifying place 3
cheesevillain Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 (edited) I believe it. But maybe we are only nice because we are almost never given a direct audience. Iirc, Josh has said on Tumblr that he avoids posting here for that very reason. You folks are all real composed and nice on this forum, btw, and I'd like to thank you all. Edited December 1, 2017 by cheesevillain
MortyTheGobbo Posted November 30, 2017 Posted November 30, 2017 Apparently other communities where way more aggressive than us. The codex is an awful and horrifying place The fact that I used to agree with the people over at RPGCodex is a persistent source of mild shame for me. 3
Blades of Vanatar Posted December 1, 2017 Posted December 1, 2017 First play thru.... walking toggle hopefully will make the game feel more real. After that it’s run run run.... If someone is still walking into the second act of their first play through I'm going to wonder how they spend their time. Spending their time absorbing the rich game world, looking for Easter eggs, etc.... but once your acclimated to the game world then yes, it’s run time. No matter which fork in the road you take I am certain adventure awaits.
blotter Posted December 1, 2017 Posted December 1, 2017 Pallegina sassed (there really isn't anything else to see there unless you like twitter comments).
cheesevillain Posted December 1, 2017 Posted December 1, 2017 (edited) https://www.twitch.tv/videos/205646747 I feel there should be a link to this on the thread, even if it's been posted elsewhere. The important takeaways are that there will be more (possibly much more) grazing, and shorter spellcasting times for some spells. Edited December 1, 2017 by cheesevillain
Rahkir Posted December 1, 2017 Posted December 1, 2017 Apparently other communities where way more aggressive than us. The codex is an awful and horrifying place The fact that I used to agree with the people over at RPGCodex is a persistent source of mild shame for me. Codex is a cool place with many interesting and nuanced discussions, and a very diverse pool of members from all around the world. Not sarcasm. 1
Katarack21 Posted December 1, 2017 Posted December 1, 2017 https://www.twitch.tv/videos/205646747 I feel there should be a link to this on the thread, even if it's been posted elsewhere. The important takeaways are that there will be more (possibly much more) grazing, and shorter spellcasting times for some spells. And changes to injuries--most no longer remove health, those that do remove 15 percent instead of 25, 4 injuries still kills you.
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