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Eh? What's was the point of making that walking animation again? To tick a box in a checklist of "useless but cool things that are in the game"? Why would you want to move slow in a game if you can run fast to destinations all the time without getting tired? Personally, I never use walking in games unless it's some sort of stealth game and running is noisy.

 

Well, ideally the walking speed wouldn't be the slow speed. It would just be normal speed. What I mean is, you'd walk pretty fast, actually, just like real people actually do when they're trying to get somewhere. Especially out adventuring in the woods. You'd be moving at "hiking" speed. Then, running would be the thing you toggle/temporarily activate, and it should have some kind of limitation (fueled by stamina, etc.). Then, THAT should have some kind of applicable consequences. You could even have stuff like reaction times for enemies, such that instead of just sneaky or no-sneaky combat starts, you could actually have your Barbarian sprint across the battlefield at that mage who's not paying attention. Sure, he'll hear him coming, or someone will shout out "Look out! A friggin' huge dude is charging at you!". But the Barbarian will already be cleaving the mage in twain by the time they get to "...out!". The cost of this? He's lower on stamina from full-speed sprinting into combat, so if things don't go his way, he's at a disadvantage.

 

Just an example. Anywho... you asked what's the point of walking if you can run everywhere. That's a great question, is the short of it. But, going even further, if we don't care about any of this but minimizing player annoyance, why not just have your characters just teleport to move? You click, they're there. Let's cut out the middleman of wait time for movement.

 

If that's unreasonable, then obviously there's some kind of a ceiling to a reasonable move speed. If so, then why is sprinting all over the place fine, but moving any slower than that is not? No one's trying to say that the slower characters move, the better. Just... this is an RPG with some semblence of reality and simulation in it, much more so than many other games. When would you base things on realistic/reasonable frames of reference if not in an RPG?

 

So, the better question is "Why should you be allowed to run full-speed everywhere you go with no cost whatsoever?"

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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The fighter can swing their sword all day without cost. Whats up with that!

 

Actually, the direct cost is recovery time from swinging your sword. You swing your sword, and now you cannot cast a spell or use Ability X because you just swung your sword.

 

 

Because this is a game, not a simulator.

 

So... why do swords damage characters? Why can't our characters run infinitely fast? Why are there so many simulated things in the game if "because this is a game, not a simulator" justifies the abandonment of any and all simulation whatsoever?

Edited by Lephys

Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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@Lephys: Just give up. Every time the walking topic comes up somewhere around here those who don't see use in it cluster together to troll and make jokes. Saw this in several other threads and all explaining didn't change anything. Let them enjoy their Benny Hill show if it brings them happiness. I was really hoping for a walking toggle and will most certainly use it from start to finish, which brings me happiness. Win win for both camps, as everyone can play the game in the movement speed of their choosing. :)

Edited by Cerebro83
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Because this is a game, not a simulator.

 

So... why do swords damage characters? Why can't our characters run infinitely fast? Why are there so many simulated things in the game if "because this is a game, not a simulator" justifies the abandonment of any and all simulation whatsoever?

 

Game.  Balance. :)

 

There is a push/pull between suspension of disbelief and ease of game mechanics and over all balance.

 

Take the stash.  Not only is that incredibly unrealistic (even with the mechanic of only being able to access it at rest), but even the concept of the backpack with limited slots doesn't work.  How is a sword the same as a tower shield?  Have it take more inventory slots?  Setting aside the tediousness of balancing that from a game designer standpoint, it still really doesn't work.  Almost everything people find in RPGs of a decent size would NEVER fit in any sort of backpack except for rings and belts and whatnot.

 

Mule packs then?  Whole host of other issues.

 

This is the sort of Pandora box that gets opened when simulationism runs amok. 

 

There are games where this system can work, though even there there are still sacrifices to game play, but Pillars (thankfully) is not one of them.

 

====

 

PS: Not that it was asked, but sitting around waiting for people to walk from one side of a Pillars sized map to the other is BOR-ING to many.  Hence the so-called run setting. It's designed so people don't waste TOO much time going from one spot to the other while still allowing interaction with game environment (ambushes, running into enemies, whatever).

 

In other words a compromise to facilitate game play. :)

Edited by Zap Gun For Hire
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BTW, if people want to walk/saunter from one end of the map to the other, knock yourselves out.  As I said in another post, different people like different things.  If Pillars can satisfy this particular itch to these different folks, more power to 'em, I say.  More the merrier and all that.

 

Just don't complain about my so-called run setting is all I ask. ;)

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^ Agreed. And cyan circles for neutral NPCs (I didn’t think we’d still get green circles for neutrals in the sequel.)

Cyan circle for neutral will clash with the colorblind mode.

 

 

To hell with the colorblind!!! :devil:

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I don't see how cyan circles would clash with the colorblind mode?

 

Normal mode would have green for allies, cyan for neutrals; colorblind mode would have blue for everyone as it already does.

 

Thing is, cyan circles would be a nice throwback to I.E. nostalgia as well as make it possible to tell allies from neutrals at a glance. Colorblind mode is not about nostalgic throwbacks; it's about enabling colorblind people to tell allies from enemies, which is pretty fundamental. We don't have to implement an aesthetic change to it if it detracts from its main purpose, but I don't think it would be a lot of work to get cyan circles for neutrals in normal mode.

Edited by AndreaColombo
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"Time is not your enemy. Forever is."

— Fall-From-Grace, Planescape: Torment

"It's the questions we can't answer that teach us the most. They teach us how to think. If you give a man an answer, all he gains is a little fact. But give him a question, and he'll look for his own answers."

— Kvothe, The Wise Man's Fears

My Deadfire mods: Brilliant Mod | Faster Deadfire | Deadfire Unnerfed | Helwalker Rekke | Permanent Per-Rest Bonuses

 

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The only thing that would make cyan circles hard is if the category of "neutral npc" isn't being track well enough to have a clear divide as to what is neutral and what isn't. If the distinguishing data is already being track, then it's a simple change to small block of code.

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Because this is a game, not a simulator.

 

So... why do swords damage characters? Why can't our characters run infinitely fast? Why are there so many simulated things in the game if "because this is a game, not a simulator" justifies the abandonment of any and all simulation whatsoever?

 

 

Mule packs then?

 

 

DUNGEON SIEGE FTW!

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@Lephys: Just give up. Every time the walking topic comes up somewhere around here those who don't see use in it cluster together to troll and make jokes. Saw this in several other threads and all explaining didn't change anything. Let them enjoy their Benny Hill show if it brings them happiness. I was really hoping for a walking toggle and will most certainly use it from start to finish, which brings me happiness. Win win for both camps, as everyone can play the game in the movement speed of their choosing. :)

 

Meh. It's a forum. I'm here to discuss. Just because others aren't doesn't mean I get to assume no one is and "give up." I'm not really struggling at anything here. I'm not here to make people's minds change. I'm just here to present information in case no one presented it to them in such a fashion before.

 

I don't really care who dances. I just provide the music. :)

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Game.  Balance. :)

 

There is a push/pull between suspension of disbelief and ease of game mechanics and over all balance.

 

I fear you misunderstand me. Why is anything a simulation of realness in the first place? Why is one end of the spectrum even reality, for us to even compromise towards? Why even care about disbelief if it's all fiction and no goal of the game is simulation because it's not a simulator?

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Should we not start with some Ipelagos, or at least some Greater Ipelagos, before tackling a named Arch Ipelago? 6_u

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Meh. It's a forum. I'm here to discuss. Just because others aren't doesn't mean I get to assume no one is and "give up." I'm not really struggling at anything here. I'm not here to make people's minds change. I'm just here to present information in case no one presented it to them in such a fashion before.

 

I don't really care who dances. I just provide the music. :)

 

Touché, mate. A good answer that I can respect. :)

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I'm happy with the walk toggle - the animations were already in (for cut-scenes) so sounds like it wasn't too much trouble - I shall henceforth walk in shops and taverns, jog through the countryside, and sneak in dungeons.

 

 

PCGamer interview with Roby Atadero

We‘ve recently met with Obsidian mastermind programmer Roby Atadero following the release of the backer beta of the Pillars of Eternity sequel called Deadfire.

 

.

.

.

 

PCGamer: Tell us about the walking toggle, please. Was it difficult to implement this feature?

 

Roby Atadero: Not at all, i did it during one of my coffee breaks.

 

PCGamer: Would you say that it has been worth implementing it?

 

Roby Atadero: Definately! 99,9% of our testers are using it and absolutely love it!

 

PCGamer: What are the future plans in this regard?

 

Roby Atadero: We are planning to include a starting movement delay as in the IE games to make it look even less robotic and more natural and we will also look into making walking speed the default and adjusting all movement speed accordingly.

 

PCGamer: What effect did the implementation of the walking toggle have on your team and yourself?

 

Roby Atadero: We are all using walking in real life more consciously, our testers now opt to walk and not run when they go to work. Some of our developpers are questioning their participation in weekend joggings.

 

PCGamer: Thank you very much for your time, Mr. Atadero! Have a safe walk!

 

Roby Atadero: I will, thank you!

LOL

_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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First play thru.... walking toggle hopefully will make the game feel more real.

 

After that it’s run run run....

 

If someone is still walking into the second act of their first play through I'm going to wonder how they spend their time.

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First play thru.... walking toggle hopefully will make the game feel more real.

 

After that it’s run run run....

 

If someone is still walking into the second act of their first play through I'm going to wonder how they spend their time.

 

 

They'll be spending their time walking...obviously :p

I'm assuming at the moment that it's a simple keyboard press (like the speed change) so I reckon I'll still be walking indoors til the end of the game.  Will see how it goes though.

I think some people have the impression that we want to walk everywhere - even across a great big open field (though I did sneak a lot across those in PoE1 to avoid missing hidden stashes) - when we some of us really just want to walk when it makes sense to walk.

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_________________________________________________________________________________________________________________________

*Casts Nature's Terror* :aiee: , *Casts Firebug* :fdevil: , *Casts Rot-Skulls* :skull: , *Casts Garden of Life* :luck: *Spirit-shifts to cat form* :cat:

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My favorite thing about Josh, is that he doesn't hold (that many) sacred cows. If something doesn't work he can revert back, but he is a great catalyst trying to improve upon old cruft that grognards would die for.

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There is something weird with Obsidian I have noticed. On one hand they're rpg lovers, like they want to make complex niche rpgs and they show it. On the other, they try to appeal to the mass market. These two come in conflict often and leave their games with bumps here and there. Their games feel they don't have a clear view (with the exception of New Vegas maybe - which might had the same problem if they didn't work on Bethesda's engine) albeit their interesting and innovative ideas. I thought Deadfire would break this circle but I fear it won't...

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