Mass Effect Andromeda

[Valmy]

 

 

Why didn't they go balls deep and make a member of the crew trans, if it's such a big deal to them?

 

They pretty much did the equivalent in DAI and I don't think anybody thought it was a big deal. 

[aluminiumtrioxid]

3) the game is currently a technical dumpster fire, but the only apology is directed at people who may have been "hurt" by ~words~

 

I find the practice of mocking people for being "hurt by words" while implying that poor technical presentation is such an absolute travesty that they should be apologizing for that instead (because apparently playing badly made video games is what's really hurtful) highly amusing.

Edited April 6, 2017 by aluminiumtrioxid

[Mamoulian War]

Yes, playing a bad game is hurtful. If your game crashes in middle of the mission, where you are unable to save/autosave, most people experience different feelings from rage to stress, and as we all know, these feelings might cause serious harm to the human organism. The exposure to stress even shortens people's lives in the long run...

 

*shrugs*

Edited April 6, 2017 by Mamoulian War

[213374U]

 

3) the game is currently a technical dumpster fire, but the only apology is directed at people who may have been "hurt" by ~words~

 

I find the practice of mocking people for being "hurt by words" while implying that poor technical presentation is such an absolute travesty that they should be apologizing for that instead (because apparently playing badly made video games is what's really hurtful) highly amusing.

 

 

I'm sure someone out there is hurt by your casual disregard of these very serious issues, good sir. You should apologize.

 

But really, it's a common courtesy you'd expect from a provider of goods and services when what is offered is not up to snuff. If you go to a restaurant and are served a cold soup, undercooked fish or something else that you wouldn't otherwise eat, the least you would expect is an apology from the waiter while he does something about it. The game is literally unplayable for many people. I am not exaggerating. Back to back crashing. I hadn't seen a game this unstable in a long time.

 

And the only ones I'm mocking here are BioWare. People who are genuinely hurt by random words in a pop culture product don't deserve my scorn... but they have my pity.

Edited April 6, 2017 by 213374U

[Amentep]

3) the game is currently a technical dumpster fire, but the only apology is directed at people who may have been "hurt" by ~words~

Were there people hurt by waxy faces, derpy eyes and 'melting off a couch' animations they should also apologize to?

 

I remember talking with Hainly, I remember the dialogue and it didn't phase me. And you know what, now that they're changing it, when I see the dialogue again...it still won't phase me. If a simple change like this makes some group of fans happy, why would I care? It's not like I'm playing MASS EFFECT: HAINLY ABRAMS.  Sometimes I'm positively mystified by the stuff that works gamers up.

[the_dog_days]

Yes, playing a bad game is hurtful. If your game crashes in middle of the mission, where you are unable to save/autosave, most people experience different feelings from rage to stress, and as we all know, these feelings might cause serious harm to the human organism. The exposure to stress even shortens people's lives in the long run...

 

*shrugs*

Take a breath, least your face grow tired.

[213374U]

 

3) the game is currently a technical dumpster fire, but the only apology is directed at people who may have been "hurt" by ~words~

Were there people hurt by waxy faces, derpy eyes and 'melting off a couch' animations they should also apologize to?

 

I remember talking with Hainly, I remember the dialogue and it didn't phase me. And you know what, now that they're changing it, when I see the dialogue again...it still won't phase me. If a simple change like this makes some group of fans happy, why would I care? It's not like I'm playing MASS EFFECT: HAINLY ABRAMS.  Sometimes I'm positively mystified by the stuff that works gamers up.

 

You chaps have it backwards. The point I'm making is that BioWare should not apologize, as is pretty much the standard in this industry when stuff goes sideways. But breaking this unwritten rule and doing so for something that is positively trivial while refusing to do it for delivering a non-functional product is pandering, which is what we were talking about.

 

I honestly don't see what's mystifying about this, but then again, I don't see anyone worked up here, either. Other than the people who supposedly demanded an apology in the first place, that is.

[Valmy]

You chaps have it backwards. The point I'm making is that BioWare should not apologize, as is pretty much the standard in this industry when stuff goes sideways. But breaking this unwritten rule and doing so for something that is positively trivial while refusing to do it for delivering a non-functional product is pandering, which is what we were talking about.

 

 

 

I honestly don't see what's mystifying about this, but then again, I don't see anyone worked up here, either. Other than the people who supposedly demanded an apology in the first place, that is.

 

 

Ok that is a good point.

[majestic]

Heh. Game just became utterly unresponsive to input after debriefing a strike team. Score one for the new patch.

[Amentep]

You chaps have it backwards. The point I'm making is that BioWare should not apologize, as is pretty much the standard in this industry when stuff goes sideways. But breaking this unwritten rule and doing so for something that is positively trivial while refusing to do it for delivering a non-functional product is pandering, which is what we were talking about.

 

I honestly don't see what's mystifying about this, but then again, I don't see anyone worked up here, either. Other than the people who supposedly demanded an apology in the first place, that is.

 

I don't see why I should care whether they apologize to one group, all groups or no groups.    It is literally so irrelevant to my life as to be positively mystifying to me that anyone actually cares about it.

[melkathi]

I think I need to read this thread from the beginning. I may have missed out on a fun conversation.

[ShadySands]

It's the buggiest game I've played in recent memory but I still mostly enjoyed my 56 hour playthrough. Mind you I play Obsidian, KS, and a lot of lower budget games so maybe my tolerance level is higher than most

Edited April 6, 2017 by ShadySands

[melkathi]

You play games? I thought you only try to give them away.

[Belle Sorciere]

 

 

3) the game is currently a technical dumpster fire, but the only apology is directed at people who may have been "hurt" by ~words~

Were there people hurt by waxy faces, derpy eyes and 'melting off a couch' animations they should also apologize to?

 

I remember talking with Hainly, I remember the dialogue and it didn't phase me. And you know what, now that they're changing it, when I see the dialogue again...it still won't phase me. If a simple change like this makes some group of fans happy, why would I care? It's not like I'm playing MASS EFFECT: HAINLY ABRAMS.  Sometimes I'm positively mystified by the stuff that works gamers up.

 

You chaps have it backwards. The point I'm making is that BioWare should not apologize, as is pretty much the standard in this industry when stuff goes sideways. But breaking this unwritten rule and doing so for something that is positively trivial while refusing to do it for delivering a non-functional product is pandering, which is what we were talking about.

 

I honestly don't see what's mystifying about this, but then again, I don't see anyone worked up here, either. Other than the people who supposedly demanded an apology in the first place, that is.

 

 

Some problems are easier to fix than others. Altering a transgender character's portrayal to be more realistic is reasonable. Since most trans people don't just announce their trans history nor give out their "deadname" upon first meeting someone, it's appropriate to make a change here.

 

On the other hand, fixing facial animations is a significantly harder task. They're already working on fixing some of the bugs and some quality of life issues. TBH I think changing the galaxy map is another example of something that maybe everyone doesn't see the need for, but it improves the experience for people who dislike it. Exactly the same thing, probably requires more work to alter than a few NPC conversations, but no one's going to complain about it because they don't have chips on their shoulders about the inclusion of transgender people.

 

The apology doesn't impact you or your game. The change in dialogue will have at best a minor impact on your game, so what you're really debating here is whether it's appropriate for people who are part of a marginalized class have the right to complain about representation that furthers or at least exploits that marginalization. To put it bluntly, you're wrong. This element of the game has no impact on you, and the people for whom it does impact have made their opinions known and have received a response...which also has no impact on you.

 

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Belle Sorciere

[Oner]

 

How was Hainly "not included in a caring or thoughtful way" prior to the changes? From the gist of the tweet, Hainly was giving an info dump too fast or something?

 

You could ask Hainly why she joined the initiative and she basically told you she wanted a fresh start as Hainly and to stop being Stephan. Then she said her name is made up from the first letters of her favorite cities.

.........And that's bad because...?

[Amentep]

 

 

How was Hainly "not included in a caring or thoughtful way" prior to the changes? From the gist of the tweet, Hainly was giving an info dump too fast or something?

 

You could ask Hainly why she joined the initiative and she basically told you she wanted a fresh start as Hainly and to stop being Stephan. Then she said her name is made up from the first letters of her favorite cities.

.........And that's bad because...?

 

 

As I understand it, in the rush to make sure it was understood the character was trans, the dialogue has Hainly revealing things about themselves that would be atypical for a first time meeting a person discussion and by referencing her previous name in a way that was inauthentic. 

 

So the change will be to - again as I understand it - make the dialogue more natural and more authentic.

[Zoraptor]

It's very similar to that infamous dialogue in Siege of Dragonspear and I was pretty bewildered that there hasn't been some anti-SJW alt-moron neckbeard diatribe about that dialogue yet, and now I read that it essentially received the exact opposite of a reaction, what with the LGBT community being pissed off at it.

 

 

I don't think the actual trans community was particularly pleased with how SoD handled the issue either, and for much the same reasons. In that case it tended to be the usual suspects in the press defending it, and largely because Beamdog blamed antiSJW neckbeards/ 4chan/ gamergate for review bombing the game, which got it mileage.

[213374U]

I don't see why I should care whether they apologize to one group, all groups or no groups.    It is literally so irrelevant to my life as to be positively mystifying to me that anyone actually cares about it.

Uh-huh. Literally irrelevant, and yet somehow you couldn't resist the urge to interject. Talk about mystifying.

 

 

 

The apology doesn't impact you or your game. The change in dialogue will have at best a minor impact on your game, so what you're really debating here is whether it's appropriate for people who are part of a marginalized class have the right to complain about representation that furthers or at least exploits that marginalization. To put it bluntly, you're wrong. This element of the game has no impact on you, and the people for whom it does impact have made their opinions known and have received a response...which also has no impact on you.

 

You're making a mountain out of a molehill.

Did I say it affect me? Did I imply this somehow impedes or hinders their effort to fix the game otherwise? Tell you what. You stop twisting my words, cut out the straw men, and quit telling me what I really am debating, and I won't assume that you have an ax to grind, seeing how apparently the only thing you care about in this game is the social commentary. Cool? Cool. I posted it here because it made me guffaw. It's silly, it's pandering, and it shows that their priorities are all over the place. So thoroughly BioWarian.

 

And exactly how does an info dump from a paper-thin character constitute a "representation that furthers or at least exploits marginalization"? Please. Who's making a mountain out of a molehill?

Edited April 6, 2017 by 213374U

[213374U]

In other news, the patch didn't fix the issue I mentioned earlier with not being able to gain XP. This on top of the, erm, underwhelming response to common MP complaints means I'm probably done with the game. I won't be asking for an apology, mind, but I sure won't be recommending this product to anyone anytime soon.

Edited April 6, 2017 by 213374U

[Chilloutman]

 

 

 

How was Hainly "not included in a caring or thoughtful way" prior to the changes? From the gist of the tweet, Hainly was giving an info dump too fast or something?

 

You could ask Hainly why she joined the initiative and she basically told you she wanted a fresh start as Hainly and to stop being Stephan. Then she said her name is made up from the first letters of her favorite cities.

.........And that's bad because...?

 

 

As I understand it, in the rush to make sure it was understood the character was trans, the dialogue has Hainly revealing things about themselves that would be atypical for a first time meeting a person discussion and by referencing her previous name in a way that was inauthentic. 

 

So the change will be to - again as I understand it - make the dialogue more natural and more authentic.

 

 

Its like every other character i suppose? I mean in *many* RPGs when you interact with NPCs they spill so much beans thats unreal. How offten you go around town asking if someone have some quest for you?

Edited April 6, 2017 by Chilloutman

[Amentep]

 

I don't see why I should care whether they apologize to one group, all groups or no groups.    It is literally so irrelevant to my life as to be positively mystifying to me that anyone actually cares about it.

Uh-huh. Literally irrelevant, and yet somehow you couldn't resist the urge to interject. Talk about mystifying.

 

 

Bioware apologizing is irrelevant to me.  That people are posting on a thread that posting an apology is somehow pandering isn't irrelevant to me because I'm reading this thread.  That I post isn't a sign that the apology is somehow relevant to me, its that this thread and talking with my fellow posters is.

 

 

 

Its like every other character i suppose? I mean in *many* RPGs when you interact with NPCs they spill so much beans thats unreal. How offten you go around town asking if someone have some quest for you?

 

I agree.  Most NPCs in RPGs info dump far too easily.  That they do is irrelevant to me.  If someone doesn't like it - all or in part - and the developer decides to change the dialogue odds are it'll continue to be irrelevant to me.

[Fenixp]

Thinking about it, I'm replaying Pillars of Eternity and I should probably be also offended. When I fart in a general direction of an NPC it'll spew detailed history of Eora as a part of their daily routine.

Edited April 6, 2017 by Fenixp

[Amentep]

I'm playing ME:A and PoE right now.  I should be offended at myself, obviously.

[ShadySands]

It's okay, I've taken it upon myself to be offended for everyone

[Belle Sorciere]

 

It's very similar to that infamous dialogue in Siege of Dragonspear and I was pretty bewildered that there hasn't been some anti-SJW alt-moron neckbeard diatribe about that dialogue yet, and now I read that it essentially received the exact opposite of a reaction, what with the LGBT community being pissed off at it.

 

 

I don't think the actual trans community was particularly pleased with how SoD handled the issue either, and for much the same reasons. In that case it tended to be the usual suspects in the press defending it, and largely because Beamdog blamed antiSJW neckbeards/ 4chan/ gamergate for review bombing the game, which got it mileage.

 

 

It doesn't take much work to find evidence of the review bombing on Metacritic and GOG (both of which allow you to review games without owning them - there's no way Metacritic could even check for that), especially when the reviews on Steam (where you are required to own the game to review it) are summarized as "mostly positive."

 

And anyone who was on Beamdog's forum when Siege of Dragonspear was published could see that a huge sticking point for these people was that there was a transgender character in the game.