Replacing camping supplies with something

[PugPug]

Camping supplies were kind of controversial. There have been threads on this. A lot of people had no problem with them, but basically they are designed to make resting too frequently inconvenient, and it led to some unintended consequences and rubbed some players the wrong way.

 

How can we limit resting without hitching it to a limited resource?

 

Another game I have played handled it this way: Resting at the "correct" intervals adds an XP bonus. Rest too soon, and you get little or no bonus. This is also true if you wait too long, for some reason.

 

I was thinking about something else. What if you could only rest in a dungeon if you were tired or badly injured? This would be different from the fatigue debuff from strenuous activity; just a timer.

[Nash]

People might have mixed feelings about it, but one of the things I liked in Baldur's Gate 2 was the chance of being ambushed by monsters when resting in dangerous areas.

[Blarghagh]

If you don't want to have to drag your Pokémons back to a Pokécenter, bring some Ether. It's that simple. Can't expect to restore your abilities and health anywhere and everywhere!

 

(You should hear what I have to say about people who are complaining about only being able to carry 5 Pokéballs in the new game.)

[rjshae]

I thought camping supplies worked well. They're an abstraction of logistical planning without all the messy details.

[darqleo]

I thought camping supplies worked well. They're an abstraction of logistical planning without all the messy details.

 

Agreed. Plus they patched it where you would be able to carry more camping supplies on the easier modes. I would love for Obsidian to go a step further and make your party have to carry food/water at least in the harder modes.

Edited March 2, 2017 by darqleo

[Gfted1]

Stamina should just regenerate over time in PoE2.

[Fenixp]

Stamina should just regenerate over time in PoE2.

I'm just gonna smack you with a trout.

[ThatUndeadLegacy]

I thought camping supplies worked well. They're an abstraction of logistical planning without all the messy details.

[Gfted1]

 

Stamina should just regenerate over time in PoE2.

I'm just gonna smack you with a trout.

 

 

 

Ok, Ill meet you guys half way. How about it regenerates very slowly but if you want an instant full Stamina (or removal of KO's), then you have to rest proper?

[hilfazer]

Camping supplies were kind of controversial. There have been threads on this. A lot of people had no problem with them, but basically they are designed to make resting too frequently inconvenient, and it led to some unintended consequences and rubbed some players the wrong way.

 

How can we limit resting without hitching it to a limited resource?

 

Another game I have played handled it this way: Resting at the "correct" intervals adds an XP bonus. Rest too soon, and you get little or no bonus. This is also true if you wait too long, for some reason.

 

I was thinking about something else. What if you could only rest in a dungeon if you were tired or badly injured? This would be different from the fatigue debuff from strenuous activity; just a timer.

Perhaps the problem in POE is just communication not being good enough. Remember the backer NPCs? Oh boy, how much rage they generated. Eric F. admitted they didn't communicate well enough that backer NPCs are the necessary evil and should be generally ignored.

How i understand POE is "You should not spam rest, but this option exists for player who want to do something unusual like soloing with a priest. And we prefer this option to hard counters". I have my reasons to believe this is the case.

 

The problem with soft counters is that there will be players who will be abusing them. Abusing in itself is not a bad thing because it's their game but some of those players might think that abusing the game is how it should be played and complain. That's the poor communication i mentioned before.

 

OTOH if we do hard counter like time limit or rest limit per game there will be even more complaints. Even if reducing difficulty was increasing those limits (with Story Mode removing them entirely, of course) some players will still complain because they are too proud to lower difficulty level.

 

Problem with resting at "correct" intervals is that you are encouraged to wait but in some cases, like 2 difficult battles in a row, you should not wait but do 2 rests in a quick succession. The game would be giving 2 contradictory messages. On a plus side restspammers would not need to do anything tedious to abuse rest.

 

As for having to be injured or tired, i bet some players will be hurting their own guys just to be able to rest and complain that game forces them to do this. And they would be at least partially right! You want to be fully rested before a boss fight but what if you're not 'tired enough' to rest?

 

The only good way to solve resting i can see is a proper economy with resting that costs no small amount of gold. But making proper economy is teh hard. Also, what is 'good' for me may not be 'good' for others as making proper economy might involve using 'unpopular' solutions. In theory players should be happy that there's finally a game where they are not too rich but practice can differ from theory rather greatly.

 

 

But hey, Obsidian apparently does not consider rest spam to be a problem. They even want to encourage players to rest in POE2.

[Fenixp]

Ok, Ill meet you guys half way. How about it regenerates very slowly but if you want an instant full Stamina (or removal of KO's), then you have to rest proper?

When I played Transport Tycoon, I used to leave my computer for a few hours to allow for my built up empire to accumulate more cash so that I could expand more rapidly then. I feel this is the exciting gameplay Pillars of Eternity needs.

 

So no, trout is still not off the table. It's getting a bit smelly tho.

[Leeuwenhart]

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[dukeisaac]

What I'd like to see in POE2 is resting being almost exclusively done on the ship. Parties can carry a few camping supplies (say one or maybe two on POTD) for dungeons and other land exploring, but the rest of the time, you can only rest in inns or your ship. Also, when resting outside of an inn or your ship, you might be surprised by enemies.

 

In POE, I felt that there was really no drawback to resting in dungeons, added to the fact that most of them had camping supplies laying around. Make it more of a strategic decision to rest...

Edited March 2, 2017 by dukeisaac

[VahnXIII]

I thought the camping system was done well for the most part. You're a group of adventurers out on the road or in a dungeon. It makes sense to bring camping supplies and rest when appropriate.

 

I do miss the "You've been waylaid by enemies and must defend yourself" from the BG series. It made sense that as your party is snoozing away, a group of hobgoblins or whatever resident baddies may attack. (thinks back to having a desperate party with no potions then being ambushed by wolves).

[Katarack21]

I hated--and to this day still hate--the limited rest mechanic.

Let me explore, do combat, etc. at my own damn pace. Don't try to control how I experience your story; let me experience it how I wish!

[Kinowek]

I disliked the Camping mechanic, but supposedly Obsidian is mostly getting rid of Vancian casting (yes/no?) in Pillars 2, so hopefully they scrap the Camping supplies along with it.

 

If Vancian casting is gone, just allow resting out of combat, no limits.  If you don't want to rest, don't.   I'd prefer rest anywhere, with a chance to get attacked in dungeons, unless you get to a defensible spot or something, but even just resting without risk would be fine with me.

 

Camping supplies in Pillars 1 were a band aid. Somehow being able to only fit 2 piles of logs in your infinite storage chest was pretty ridiculous.  Luckily, you were practically tripping over piles of logs in each dungeon, apparently conveniently placed there by monsters for weary parties.  If they leave camping supplies in, it'll be the same way in Pillars 2. Ridiculous, and jarring at best.

 

Whatever camping solution they make is just going to get modded out anyway.

[rjshae]

Camping supplies in Pillars 1 were a band aid. Somehow being able to only fit 2 piles of logs in your infinite storage chest was pretty ridiculous.  Luckily, you were practically tripping over piles of logs in each dungeon, apparently conveniently placed there by monsters for weary parties.  If they leave camping supplies in, it'll be the same way in Pillars 2. Ridiculous, and jarring at best.

 

The infinite storage chest is likewise a bandaid. Both are abstractions of endlessly traipsing back and forth to deal with necessities like eating, drinking, and hauling away your piles of treasure. For that purpose they work just fine.

[Tigranes]

Many people who didn't like camping supplies simply wanted to rest whenever they wanted all the time - and then there were others who only wanted less restrictions in specific ways, but across people this differed hugely. 

 

So any other mechanism of restriction isn't going to satisfy, because players like Giftd who just want everything all the time won't have their problem solved, and people who wanted their specific peeve solved may or may not be targeted by the changes.

 

There's a ton of games out there that let you regenerate/restore all your powers very easily, so I'm fine with POE having whatever kind of restriction. In any case, losing Vancian casting alone means people who put all their spells in a big bucket and throw it at every goblin won't be as bothered by it.

[Osvir]

 

 

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^

​Also, the ship automatically/naturally explains "Unlimited Stash".

Edited March 3, 2017 by Osvir

[Leeuwenhart]

Yes.

 

Still unlimited stash doesnt bother me.

 

Its one of those things that makes a game comfortable. Like no arrows.

 

Otherwise its a hassle. Its the exact reason camping supplies need to be changed.

 

Its not a value.

[Gfted1]

When I played Transport Tycoon, I used to leave my computer for a few hours to allow for my built up empire to accumulate more cash so that I could expand more rapidly then. I feel this is the exciting gameplay Pillars of Eternity needs.

 

So no, trout is still not off the table. It's getting a bit smelly tho.

Hopefully the replenishment would be swifter than 1HP per hour? Or are we at the point of just making wildly improbable statements to support our "side"? I suppose I could mention that unlimited resting is fine and its up to the player to control the use of such, but nah, I already know the response to that idea is: "If its there then I'm physically incapable of controlling myself from using it." Hmm, where can we go then...*drums fingers on desk*...I guess we can always load up the unlimited camping supplies mod.

[molotov.]

A game that nailed the camping system is Expedition: Conquistador, it was perfect. PoE 2 should introduce some of the mechanics in that game's camping system.

[dragubaba]

Enjoyment comes from challenges and overcoming them. Challenge comes partly from restrictions and how to deal with them. If you want entertainment that challenges you in no way go watch a damn movie.

[Katarack21]

Enjoyment comes from challenges and overcoming them. Challenge comes partly from restrictions and how to deal with them. If you want entertainment that challenges you in no way go watch a damn movie.

That's where *your* enjoyment comes from. Other people have other ways of enjoying PoE.

[hilfazer]

If you want entertainment that challenges you in no way go watch a damn movie.

You still need to understand it