Journalism and Bias in the Gaming Industry

[Elerond]

"And he also was responsible for prequels. So I am not as confident his money making abilities as you are. Because he has long history of not so great decisions."

 

Your personal opinion on the quality of the prequels is irrelevant. They made tons of money.

 

They themselves produced money, but they also drive declination of products made by Lucas Films and Lucas Arts and other companies that Lucas owned so much that said companies could not live without selling them to somebody else. So in short run they were good cash grabs, but in long run they have lessened value of Lucas's companies IPs.

 

It should be also noted that during Disney time Star Wars merchandise revenue stream has rose to all time high and is still increasing. Also it is interesting to note that box office inflation corrected revenue from New Hope is only couple hundred million dollars less than revenue from whole prequel trilogy.

 

So I don't say that Lucas wasn't able to make money from Star Wars, but that he didn't always made best choices (at least from perspective where one is able to look back see how things develop), in my estimate he is in this sense more like Trump who has been able to make money in his businesses, who has been able to grow his net worth 300% since 1987, but if he had invested his money in and index fund in 1988 his net worth would had grown over 1300%, than some actually financial genius. But of course when you have billions dollars worth of wealth it don't really matter if some other decision would have brought you more money if decision that you made were more to your liking. 

 

Source for Trump numbers

http://fortune.com/2015/08/20/donald-trump-index-funds/

Sources for Star Wars claims

http://www.statisticbrain.com/star-wars-total-franchise-revenue/

http://www.hollywoodreporter.com/news/star-wars-merchandise-sales-could-819004

 

US Inflation calculator that I used in my interesting to note segment

http://www.usinflationcalculator.com/

 

P.S. Point wasn't to say that Lucas don't know how to make money, but that he isn't some sort genius that didn't made bunch of bad calls. Meaning that when you look decision that he made/approved/allowed in time when Hasbro made Star Wars toys you probably should also take account that and possible also note that Disney currently seems to do better job with different decisions. 

[Zoraptor]

Why not just skip the prequels alltogether, then? It's not like II and III are any good.

Have to disagree there. Both aotc and rots were good movies potentially and would have been so with some moderate retooling, TPM on the other hand had so many bad ideas and implementations that you'd have to start from scratch. The problems of the latter two movies were that almost always whenever people talked and particularly whenever emotion was required- especially Anakin and Padme- it was stultifying garbage of the highest order. Lucas desperately needed a script and story editor who he would listen too and who wasn't a yes man. The general stories of both were more or less OK, but the general story of TPM was illogical and incomprehensible requiring fundamental revision as well as having the same dialogue problems.

 

RotS I'd actually defend as being a good movie overall, despite its faults and I'd happily watch AotC again so long as I can fast forward picnicking on Naboo and suchlike. TPM... I guess there is the Maul duel, although even that is a convoluted illogical mess if you think about it.

[Amentep]

To me there's a lot to like and dislike in the prequels.  I enjoy them, but also feel they were a lost opportunity and not really to the level of the original series.

[Blarghagh]

 

Why not just skip the prequels alltogether, then? It's not like II and III are any good.

Have to disagree there. Both aotc and rots were good movies potentially and would have been so with some moderate retooling, TPM on the other hand had so many bad ideas and implementations that you'd have to start from scratch. The problems of the latter two movies were that almost always whenever people talked and particularly whenever emotion was required- especially Anakin and Padme- it was stultifying garbage of the highest order. Lucas desperately needed a script and story editor who he would listen too and who wasn't a yes man. The general stories of both were more or less OK, but the general story of TPM was illogical and incomprehensible requiring fundamental revision as well as having the same dialogue problems.

 

RotS I'd actually defend as being a good movie overall, despite its faults and I'd happily watch AotC again so long as I can fast forward picnicking on Naboo and suchlike. TPM... I guess there is the Maul duel, although even that is a convoluted illogical mess if you think about it.

 

I want to go into how much I disagree with what you're saying, but I'm afraid I'll end up writing a wall of the text the likes of which nobody has ever seen. Like, War & Peace. I'll try to be quick.

 

- The Phantom Menace may have a convoluted plot, but it does consistently set stakes and goals. If Anakin doesn't win the pod race, they'll be stuck on Tatooine without resources. If the Gungans don't distract the droid army, they can't take the city. If the Jedi don't defeat Darth Maul, he'll kill the queen. There are no sequences like that in the other two movies. There are no stakes, even at it's most "dramatic". If Obi-Wan can't defeat Anakin at the end of RotS, what happens? He'll kill all the Jedi and take over? He's already done that. Obi-Wan already lost before the fight begins. Sure, he could kill Obi-Wan and Yoda and then "the dark side prevails" or some such bull****, but that's not really tangible. It's not really established what the stakes are, or what Obi-Wan's goal is other than killing his former best friend.

 

- What sequences in the prequels are good, do you think? For me, this list includes only the Pod Race and the Darth Maul duel. They have problems, but they're consistent with the universe and look pretty cool. I'm lukewarm regarding the Jango vs Obi-Wan sequence in AotC, but the rest of that movie is filler except for the sequences even you wanted to fast-forward through. Even the climatic fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan is terrible - like I already said, there are no stakes (whereas Phantom Menace just has stakes we don't give a **** about) but moreso than that until the very end they spend twenty minutes swinging their lightsabers without either of them gaining the upper hand in some way. Where is the tension in that? At least Maul was kicking the Jedi's ass.

 

- Why would you say RotS is defensible as a good movie overall? It consistently sets up a scene that looks like it's going to be good and then absolutely ruins it. I don't think there is a single scene, let alone sequence, in RotS that I think is good.

 

- Why do you say AotC and RotS would only need moderate retooling? I feel they would need less retooling solely because the basic story is in place through what we're told in the original trilogy (whereas TPM mostly deals with an unrelated story). The actual plot of AotC and RotS, in my opinion, needed to be entirely scrapped and redone and so would every sequence and line of dialogue. Not to say that the same isn't true of TPM, but that's kind of my point. They're equally bad, plot wise.

 

- I consider the performances in TPM to be better than those in the other two movies. Other than kid Anakin, a child actor, who is truly awful, I find that everyone either seems bored (Neeson, Portman, McGregor, that guy who plays Maul) or gives a performance with character (Schmi, Watto, Jar Jar). Note that I'm not saying they're good characters, but while Jar Jar is annoying I can honestly say that I never felt like he was phoning it in. The bumbling bad guys are ridiculous, but I felt their characters were ridiculous, I didn't feel that they sounded out of character. Even the shadowy Sidious feels suitably threatening and it is the one time in the prequel trilogy that he does. On the other hand, with the exception of McGregor who gives it his all but fails, everyone in the other two seem like they're not even trying. And I can't blame them, because who can say that horrible dialogue, but they are truly more awful.

 

- I feel like people got tricked into thinking AotC and RotS were better because their expectations were lowered and because they didn't have Jar Jar. I truly cannot find any other reasons why anyone would like those movies more than TPM. It's like the anti-nostalgia. TPM ruined something people thought would be amazing, when the others just about conformed to already shattered expectations.

 

Sigh, there's the wall of text anyway.

Edited November 6, 2015 by TrueNeutral

[Malcador]

Prequels would be better by a fair margin for me if the romance plot was written better.

[Blarghagh]

I always feel like the worst missed oppertunity in the actual movies is the red herring Dooku throws out. When he goes like "the senate is under the control of the Sith Lord, join me and we can save the universe". That should not have been a red herring, that should have been the turning point. Obi-Wan should have joined him and taken a sizeable group of Jedi with him. Obi-Wan and Anakin driven on a collission course, both convinced that they're saving the Republic? Now that's tension and emotional stakes. That is the one moment in the prequel trilogy where I thought things were going to start getting awesome.

[Oerwinde]

I feel like if Anakin had been 13-15 in the first movie, and they had spent more time on naboo developing Anakin's feelings for Padme and a kind of father/son dynamic between him and qui gon, and a brotherly relationship with Obi Wan then the movie would have been much better and Anakin's character development would make more sense. Maybe if they had spent weeeks/months fighting the droid armies rather than hours. A that age his initial rejection from the Jedi would have made more sense too

Edited November 6, 2015 by Oerwinde

[Orogun01]

I always feel like the worst missed oppertunity in the actual movies is the red herring Dooku throws out. When he goes like "the senate is under the control of the Sith Lord, join me and we can save the universe". That should not have been a red herring, that should have been the turning point. Obi-Wan should have joined him and taken a sizeable group of Jedi with him. Obi-Wan and Anakin driven on a collission course, both convinced that they're saving the Republic? Now that's tension and emotional stakes. That is the one moment in the prequel trilogy where I thought things were going to start getting awesome.

Alternatively it could have also been better if Padme impending death would have been earlier, rather than at the end of the final film. I might have more sympathy for a man trying to save his terminal wife than for one driven by the the self fulfilling prophecy that his wife will die.

[Zoraptor]

I want to go into how much I disagree with what you're saying, but I'm afraid I'll end up writing a wall of the text the likes of which nobody has ever seen. Like, War & Peace. I'll try to be quick.

 

I believe the appropriate quote is "Do or do not, there is no try".

 

- The Phantom Menace may have a convoluted plot, but it does consistently set stakes and goals. If Anakin doesn't win the pod race, they'll be stuck on Tatooine without resources. If the Gungans don't distract the droid army, they can't take the city. If the Jedi don't defeat Darth Maul, he'll kill the queen. There are no sequences like that in the other two movies. There are no stakes, even at it's most "dramatic". If Obi-Wan can't defeat Anakin at the end of RotS, what happens? He'll kill all the Jedi and take over? He's already done that. Obi-Wan already lost before the fight begins. Sure, he could kill Obi-Wan and Yoda and then "the dark side prevails" or some such bull****, but that's not really tangible. It's not really established what the stakes are, or what Obi-Wan's goal is other than killing his former best friend.

There's stakes and goals. Catch the assassin to find out who ordered the hit, protect Padme/ find Jango, find Dooku, alert the Republic, catch Dooku. Then kill Dooku/ defend Coruscant, kill Grievous, find Sidious, save Padme and the conflicting bits at the end- Obiwan's mission is to kill the lesser Sith Lord, Yoda's to kill the master which would, theoretically at least wipe out the Sith. At that stage they had certainly already lost, but that is kind of the point. While only outright stated in the novelisation the Jedi had been fighting the wrong war against an enemy who had adapted and used their own tactics and inflexibility against them, they'd been a step behind all along and paid the price. They'd already lost because they'd already lost.

 

TPM is the only movie in which the good guys 'win', so in that sense the stakes and goals are achieved but do that and then ESB has to be classed as a bad movie as well. The problem for all of aotc/ rots/esb in that respect is that the antagonists are the ones actually achieving their goals, not the protagonists. The protagonists are stuck responding to what the antagonists are doing, and (practically) failing in that.

 

- What sequences in the prequels are good, do you think? For me, this list includes only the Pod Race and the Darth Maul duel. They have problems, but they're consistent with the universe and look pretty cool. I'm lukewarm regarding the Jango vs Obi-Wan sequence in AotC, but the rest of that movie is filler except for the sequences even you wanted to fast-forward through. Even the climatic fight between Anakin and Obi-Wan is terrible - like I already said, there are no stakes (whereas Phantom Menace just has stakes we don't give a **** about) but moreso than that until the very end they spend twenty minutes swinging their lightsabers without either of them gaining the upper hand in some way. Where is the tension in that? At least Maul was kicking the Jedi's ass.

 

I didn't even like the pod race.

 

Basically, I disliked anything that looked like it was designed solely to be used in a video game sequence. Mostly though, like the Darth Maul fight they're OK so long as you don't expect them to be logical. I'd have to watch the movies again to be sure but I thought the arena fight and most of the other Geonosis stuff was OK in aotc, the first sequence in RotS, the Windu v Sidious and Yoda v Sidious fights (especially) were good as well.

 

- Why would you say RotS is defensible as a good movie overall? It consistently sets up a scene that looks like it's going to be good and then absolutely ruins it. I don't think there is a single scene, let alone sequence, in RotS that I think is good.

 

That's rather difficult to answer to someone who didn't like anything about it, because there's clearly little common ground. I'd still argue that so long as you accept that Anakin was a monumentally selfish manchild rather than an actual hero it stands on its own feet as a story, but you have to accept that to enjoy it. I'd still change a lot of it, personally, but it has a coherent theme, a hero (just that it's Obiwan, not Anakin), a tragic figure (though it doesn't work as well as it should given that Anakin is an abject moron) and a well worked antagonist in Sidious/ Palpatine. In the end it doesn't duck the consequences either.

 

- Why do you say AotC and RotS would only need moderate retooling? I feel they would need less retooling solely because the basic story is in place through what we're told in the original trilogy (whereas TPM mostly deals with an unrelated story). The actual plot of AotC and RotS, in my opinion, needed to be entirely scrapped and redone and so would every sequence and line of dialogue. Not to say that the same isn't true of TPM, but that's kind of my point. They're equally bad, plot wise.

 

Again, hard to argue when there's so little common ground. AotC would need more retooling than RotS in my mind but even there the basic strands are in place, there's a plot progression from finding the assassin to the clones to Dooku and the Trade Fed army. As prior, the dialogue desperately needed editing to something approaching what an actual human would say (also a problem in RotS, though less so) but I think you could make a good movie out of the structure/ plot of the movie. That's not something I can say about TPM, it's an illogical mess pretty much from start to stop.

 

- I consider the performances in TPM to be better than those in the other two movies. Other than kid Anakin, a child actor, who is truly awful, I find that everyone either seems bored (Neeson, Portman, McGregor, that guy who plays Maul) or gives a performance with character (Schmi, Watto, Jar Jar). Note that I'm not saying they're good characters, but while Jar Jar is annoying I can honestly say that I never felt like he was phoning it in. The bumbling bad guys are ridiculous, but I felt their characters were ridiculous, I didn't feel that they sounded out of character. Even the shadowy Sidious feels suitably threatening and it is the one time in the prequel trilogy that he does. On the other hand, with the exception of McGregor who gives it his all but fails, everyone in the other two seem like they're not even trying. And I can't blame them, because who can say that horrible dialogue, but they are truly more awful.

 

Meh, McDiarmid was the best actor in all three movies, hands down. Star Wars isn't Shakespeare and he embraced that fully. I've said it before but he fully realises that Sid/ Palp is a panto villain for 90% of the prequel series and plays it exactly like that. I'm loathe to criticise the actual acting in any of the movies though, anybody would struggle with Lucas dialogue and Lucas direction (faster, more intense!). It's more overt in TPM due to Jake Lloyd and frankly Neeson who I otherwise like is more wooden than my kitchen table most of the time but really, very hard to make a silk purse from a sow's ear.

 

- I feel like people got tricked into thinking AotC and RotS were better because their expectations were lowered and because they didn't have Jar Jar. I truly cannot find any other reasons why anyone would like those movies more than TPM. It's like the anti-nostalgia. TPM ruined something people thought would be amazing, when the others just about conformed to already shattered expectations.

 

I doubt that's the case, except initially. I've watched all three since release and I'd go near to actively avoiding TPM but neither of the others, and it isn't just for Jar Jar. Initially I think you'd be right, and in particular I think TPM suffered also from coming after The Matrix which was a similar concept but so much better executed and so much fresher feeling.

 

If I had to summarise why I'd say that TPM is illogical and not in a fun way, in fact I'd say it is almost entirely devoid of fun and watching it is almost entirely a chore. It's infantile, and again it's not just Jar Jar stepping in poodoo and Gungans or similar that makes it so. The dialogue is stilted, the direction uninspired to say the least, the action sequences more a showcase of CGI than anything else and Anakin is both appallingly acted/ written and relies on a ludicrous plot line to 'win'. Why is Naboo important? Why is a blockade only one ship? Why blockade at all? How can a fighter fly into a ship and blow it up like that? Midichlorians? Angels? Gack, just thinking about it makes me want to give myself a memory enema to remove the stink and suck.

[Meshugger]

I don't like the prequels so I don't watch them.

[Meshugger]

The next time a "tech" journalist writes about a sexual assault/rape scandal, remember this:

 

http://esr.ibiblio.org/?p=6907

http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2015/11/04/feminists-are-trying-to-frame-linus-torvalds-for-sexual-assault-claims-open-source-industry-veteran/

 

 

The short version is: if you are any kind of open-source leader or senior figure who is male, do not be alone with any female, ever, at a technical conference. Try to avoid even being alone, ever, because there is a chance that a “women in tech” advocacy group is going to try to collect your scalp

Edited November 6, 2015 by Meshugger

[Fighter]

http://deadline.com/2015/11/zoe-quinn-crash-override-gamergate-memoir-amy-pascal-1201611420/

 

[PK htiw klaw eriF]

So the executive that managed to **** up the Spider-Man film series so badly they had to let Marvel in is going to make a "ripped from the headlines" movie? This will be like Law & Order cubed.

[Fighter]

It will be a glorious trainwreck. An infinite source of memes.

[Keyrock]

I suppose it can't be any worse than a Tyler Perry movie.

 

I bet it will be about as accurate as that FIFA movie that came out last year.

Edited November 7, 2015 by Keyrock

[BruceVC]

@ Meshugger and TN others like Keyrock

 

 

Guys please this thread is about SJ developments in the gaming industry and perceived actions by gaming websites

 

Its NOT a thread about Star Wars movies, please stop hijacking the thread or I will have to report you guys to the Mods....we need to maintain standards and stick to  the forum etiquette    

[Darkpriest]

well you can always argue that due to SJWs retardness we will never see Leia in her slave outfit in any Star Wars related game... I wonder if that goes to all the sexy sexy outfits for all the content like Twi'lek dancers etc.

[BruceVC]

well you can always argue that due to SJWs retardness we will never see Leia in her slave outfit in any Star Wars related game... I wonder if that goes to all the sexy sexy outfits for all the content like Twi'lek dancers etc.

 

Yeah, that outfit was hot...I had a crush on that outfit when I first saw it  

[Darkpriest]

I mean, a Star Wars game without sexy Twi'leks is like Mass Effect without sexy Asari... it's just wrong.

[BruceVC]

I mean, a Star Wars game without sexy Twi'leks is like Mass Effect without sexy Asari... it's just wrong.

But do you think the new movies wont have that type of look for female characters? I havent been following any news about it

[Darkpriest]

 

I mean, a Star Wars game without sexy Twi'leks is like Mass Effect without sexy Asari... it's just wrong.

But do you think the new movies wont have that type of look for female characters? I havent been following any news about it

 

 

hard to say, but there was nothing like that in trailers

[Meshugger]

@ Meshugger and TN others like Keyrock

 

 

Guys please this thread is about SJ developments in the gaming industry and perceived actions by gaming websites

 

Its NOT a thread about Star Wars movies, please stop hijacking the thread or I will have to report you guys to the Mods....we need to maintain standards and stick to  the forum etiquette    

 

Sorry, I'm not a figurine in your dollhouse where you have your imaginary tea-parties.

[Meshugger]

http://deadline.com/2015/11/zoe-quinn-crash-override-gamergate-memoir-amy-pascal-1201611420/

 

 

What a fantastic trainwreck that will be.

[BruceVC]

 

@ Meshugger and TN others like Keyrock

 

 

Guys please this thread is about SJ developments in the gaming industry and perceived actions by gaming websites

 

Its NOT a thread about Star Wars movies, please stop hijacking the thread or I will have to report you guys to the Mods....we need to maintain standards and stick to  the forum etiquette    

 

Sorry, I'm not a figurine in your dollhouse where you have your imaginary tea-parties.

 

Fair enough, I did assume you were involved in this flagrant disregard of the forum rules because you are generally quite recalcitrant and seem to have an issues with rules and societal expectations 

[Bartimaeus]

Fair enough, I did assume you were involved in this flagrant disregard of the forum rules because you are generally quite recalcitrant and seem to have an issues with rules and societal expectations

Actually, there isn't anything in the forum rules that says anything about having to stay on topic. There is this one, though:

 

"Harassment: We ask that the users of this board treat one another with respect, even when opinions differ. Personal attacks that are intended to cause unwanted attention, embarrassment, or harm will not be tolerated."

 

...but who am I kidding? The "stay on topic" rule, which doesn't even exist in the actual rules, is enforced more often here than the one I just quoted.

 

flagrant disregard of the forum rules

because you are generally quite recalcitrant

seem to have an issues with rules and societal expectations

Edited November 7, 2015 by Bartimaeus