Star Citizen

[Darkpriest]

Anyone backed this project?

 

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/

 

I was almost a backer on a few points at a time, but the scope and the budget ticked me in the wrong way.

 

Now there is apparently some information coming that the project might have been heavily mismanaged and it may be a super failure.

 

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/features/14715-CIG-Employees-Talk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2015/10/01/report-star-citizen-is-almost-out-of-cash-and-chris-roberts-insatiable-ambition-is-to-blame/

 

Anyone has some more project backer information?

 

Will this be the biggest disaster of crowd funded projects?

Edited October 3, 2015 by Darkpriest

[majestic]

Anyone backed this project?

 

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/

 

I was almost a backer on a few points at a time, but the scope and the budget ticked me in the wrong way.

 

Now there is apparently some information coming that the project might have been heavily mismanaged and it may be a super failure.

 

http://www.escapistmagazine.com/articles/view/video-games/features/14715-CIG-Employees-Talk-Star-Citizen-and-the-State-of-the-Company

 

http://www.forbes.com/sites/jasonevangelho/2015/10/01/report-star-citizen-is-almost-out-of-cash-and-chris-roberts-insatiable-ambition-is-to-blame/

 

Anyone has some more project backer information?

 

Will this be the biggest disaster of crowd funded projects?

 

Curious how a host of anonymous current and former employees just happen to leak info that seemingly confirms everything that Derek Smart conjectured a while ago, and the more The Escapist insists they have properly vetted their sources the more it makes them look like a bunch of boons that got trolled. Heh.

 

I am, however, kind of partial to some of the criticism towards Star Citizen. Feature creep is really looking to massively impair this project and if there is any truth to what Chris Roberts' (confirmed) co-workers said recently he's literally working himself to death with it. Which would be a shame, I really want a new Wing Commander game, even if it is in spirit only. I kind of gave up on knowing the fate of Blair a long time ago. *sigh*

[Keyrock]

The way the crowdfunding was set up (and continues to be) really rubbed me the wrong way and set off warning sirens in my head, so I never wound up giving Roberts any money even though I LOVE space sims.  I really hope this does eventually materialize and lives up to its potential, but yeah, this reeks of vaporware.  Star Citizen may be an actual game that people can play one day, but I'll be shocked if it comes anywhere near what it has been touted to be.

[melkathi]

I am a low tier backer and haven'd really paid attention.

The new newsletter came in and had the following response: https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/14979-Chairmans-Response-To-The-Escapist

 

Chairman's Response to The Escapist
(Or: The Long Troll)

 

Greetings Citizens,

I have, to date, attempted to stay above the internet drama currently surrounding Derek Smart and his claims about Star Citizen. My feeling has been that it is most important to speak with actions instead of words, and to date I feel that we have done that with the multi crew demo, the launch of the social module and everything else you see here in this space on a daily basis. However, with the publication of today’s article (I can only call it a hit piece) on The Escapist, I believe it is necessary to address the issue directly. In the interests of openness, I am making available right now my correspondence with The Escapist’s managing editor. What follows is his original e-mail to our Director of Communications, David Swofford, and my response, sent to them three hours before their deadline and not included in the piece.

I have to say that I’m incredibly disappointed in all of this. This sort of drama is not what I, or you, signed up for with Star Citizen. Thanks to your support, the project has become bigger than I ever thought possible and there’s no question that opens us up to criticism from anyone looking to make a name for themselves. I know that every company goes through such things, especially with regards to unhappy former employees. It is unfortunate that our open nature makes us a bigger target, and going forward we will do the best we can to refute such baseless accusations. But most importantly, stay tuned to see the actual work we’re doing, which should put any questions to rest.

I will update this piece with a direct response to the article later in the day, but I wanted to go ahead and show you what they left out; hopefully it will calm some nerves now.

Chris Roberts
- Chris Roberts

 

(the response is too long to copy paste)

Edited October 3, 2015 by melkathi

[majestic]

 Star Citizen may be an actual game that people can play one day, but I'll be shocked if it comes anywhere near what it has been touted to be.

 

I've played games and followed hypes long enough to know for sure that Star Citizen, when (if?) it is released in a final version will never ever be able to live up to the hype. It'll end up being a game full of cut corners and good ideas gone wrong. A tad like SW:TOR was when it launched. =(

[ShadySands]

I backed it but just for $30 and haven't really kept up with it, much like melkathi

 

I always thought it was the bad boy of the big name kickstarters, sketchy enough to be exciting but headed by someone established enough to make me feel safe. 

[GhoulishVisage]

I think that anyone who honestly believes that the game will come out as promised is deluding themselves. Hard.
SC will all end in tears.

 

 

I mean, does this sound at all feasible in the slightest?

 

 

However I have to say I'm not all too impressed with how that article was put out. They should have put more effort into verifying the sources, and given Roberts an appropriate amount of time to respond.
A pity, because I rather like Lizzy.

Also, while I think that people need to call out bull**** where they see it, Derek Smart's murderboner for Star Citizen is distinctly odd.

[Keyrock]

Yeah, I don't put any stock whatsoever into what Derek Smart says, because that guy obviously has some kind of personal vendetta against Roberts, but it seems like Star Citizen is trying to be Everything: The Video Game, and that just seems like a fairy tale to me.  More power to them if they can pull it off, though.  

[majestic]

Also, while I think that people need to call out bull**** where they see it, Derek Smart's murderboner for Star Citizen is distinctly odd.

 

That kind of goes way back to the first Wing Commander where Derek Smart sued (or tried to) Origin and Roberts because they allegedly stole his ideas.

[Rosbjerg]

I mean, does this sound at all feasible in the slightest?

 

From the few early access videos on Steam it seems like that is already in the game? I saw a video of a guy walking into a hangar, entering his ship via elevator and entering the ****pit, then cut to him flying around, exiting to eva, shoot at another ship in first person with a gun, crawl back into his own ship and then fly back. In beautiful graphics too and without any loading screens.

 

Which is exactly what is promised there.. Of course this didn't show the gameplay/quests etc, but so far those bullet points were pretty much covered.

[Lexx]

Well, the good thing is, space is full of... empty space. Unlike games such as Skyrim or whatever, you don't have to load and render a truckton of scenery models every 10 meters. It should be fairly possible to stream planets and ships continuously if the engine pipeline isn't a turd. There was a dev diary about this in which they explained that everything in the gameworld is "defined as containers." This pretty much means - for example - a container inside only gets loaded when you are inside of it as well. If you fly your cool space ship in space, the game will load distant planets / backdrops as well as other ships flying around, but not load the interior of the other ships or space stations, as you are not in their "container",...

Anyway. Even Second Life does similar things since around 2003, just that it tries to load the full cell / grid in which you are, which in return is devastating for the game performance. No idea if anything about it changed by now, but the last time I checked it out, even with high speed internet it took a long time to load all the graphic objects. Limiting the traffic with that container system could actually work quite good, I'd say.

 

Not sure if the CryEngine was the best choice for that, though. Well, we'll probably see some day in the future...

 

 

/Edit: With all the fuzz about that game since a while now, it almost makes me feel like people *want* this to go down.

Edited October 4, 2015 by Lexx

[ManifestedISO]

 

Thats why I boosted my pledge with Star Citizen to 2 grand without an issue - they respected me I responded in kind.

 

Obsidian ignores that - puts out a short video every now and then - had no drive to entice people here to the forums to get excited about the game no wonder they panicked and thought they would have needed a Media release to pick up backers. When all they really needed to do was engage with the fans, sure its an innocent mistake but its a pretty disrespectful one.

 

 

Hopefully CIG respects backers enough to at least prepare their crow à l'orange. 

[Hurlshort]

Heh, where is that quote from?  At least Obsidian delivered a product, pretty much as advertised too.

[ManifestedISO]

At least Obsidian delivered a product, pretty much as advertised too.

 

Exactly my point.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71554-pre-load-is-now-available/?p=1595296

Edited October 5, 2015 by ManifestedISO

[Fighter]

So what is this game supposed to be exactly? Is it just an open world exploration game with no story or goals? Is the ship-to-ship/fps combat pvp or are there NPCs?

[Ganrich]

So what is this game supposed to be exactly? Is it just an open world exploration game with no story or goals? Is the ship-to-ship/fps combat pvp or are there NPCs?

Universe simulator is probably an apt description. The universe is populated with 80-90% NPCs (I can't remember the exact number). I am going to try to describe it but it is hard to do in text. Please, don't hold it against me if I don't convey it well.

 

There is a set of single player missions that you can play. They are like a tutorial. There are around 100 solar systems in the game. You can travel to them and land on planets, explore anomalies, etc.

 

Ships range from small individual craft to larger multi crew ships that require 3-8 to fly it. Those places can be filled with NPCs, but are better suited to other players. So, a middle sized ship would have a pilot, 1 or 2 gunners on turrets, someone managing ships energy/shields, possibly a person repairing damage, etc.

 

You can be a pirate, a bounty hunter, a mercenary, a merchant, an explorer, a miner, ,scrapping adrift ships, or run a repair ship etc. Each will have unique game types.

 

The game has systems that are interlinked. The factory that builds a certain ship needs ore to build it, so the miners gather ore (maybe take it themselves or sell it to a merchant to deliver it). If that ore makes it to the factory then all is good and the ships get produced. However, if pirates jump the ship bringing ore then the factory may put out a mission for mercs to help escort a merchant ship carrying that ore to the factory. If they fail then the rewards for the next mission will increase. If it takes too long the supply demand goes off and that ship could have a shortage thus increasing prices.

 

The game will mix sim combat with the fps. Land on a space station for a mission, shoot some guys, somehow the self-destruct gets inititated, and you have to make a break for the docking area back onto your ship to get out.

 

The game will have simulation pits for you to sit in to allow for instanced PVP. Both in ships and fps. Arena commander for ships, and I think Marine commander for fps. Basically the sim pits are like in game video games.

 

There is also open world pvp in certain solar systems, but most of it is controlled via a PVP slider in the players option menu.

 

It is basically a giant sandbox of interconnected systems that allows space dogfighting and fps.

[Barothmuk]

So what is this game supposed to be exactly? Is it just an open world exploration game with no story or goals? Is the ship-to-ship/fps combat pvp or are there NPCs?

There's a "full campaign" (Squadron 42) and an online mulitplayer universe with players and NPCs (Star Citizen).

[Lexx]

https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15002-CIG-Replay-CitizenCon-2015-Livestream

 

They are presenting some pretty cool looking stuff.

[Darkpriest]

I guess I will remain in the "undecided" camp then... I hope it's good, then I will be able to buy it once its done... but right now I just do not have enough confidence that it will be done well

[Lexx]

Time to digg out that thread again. Few days ago the alpha test for the new PTU 2.0 has started. That means, a few 1000 chosen people can already play in the first iteration of the persistent universe: Walk on stations and interact with people, get into space ships and fly around wherever you want (including multi-crew ships), visit other space stations, do dogfights in space, do FPS combat outside of the ship, etc.

 

It's still super buggy and crashes all the time, but it's already pretty much what they have promised for the full release. Videos are surfacing all around youtube now, like

. There is lots of more, with some really cool gameplay scenes.

 

While still being very rough, I think it looks already awesome... and it should help convince people that this thing really can work and isn't necessarily going to fail in a way someone like Derek Smart won't stop preaching (unlike the game from Derek Smart, which looks hilariously bad in comparison with anything else).

[kirottu]

It's still super buggy and crashes all the time, but it's already pretty much what they have promised for the full release. Videos are surfacing all around youtube now, like

. There is lots of more, with some really cool gameplay scenes.

 

[Barothmuk]

As a backer who hasn't paid much attention to development I'm happy with what I'm seeing in these alpha videos.

[Lexx]

Alpha 2.0 is now out for everyone, apparently.
 
https://robertsspaceindustries.com/comm-link/transmission/15106-Star-Citizen-Alpha-20-Available
 

Feature List

You can find the complete Star Citizen Alpha 2.0 patch notes here.
Open World Missions

8 Comm Array missions involving dogfighting and EVA, 8 Research missions involving protecting civilians or recovering lost data and 1 Exploration mission of an abandoned station.
20+ Random Encounters – Most are random dogfighting encounters, often with a mix of friendlies and hostiles. 4 are random exploration missions involving finding lost wrecks.

First Person Shooter

Recharging energy weapons.
In-game pick-ups including ballistic weapons, ammo and MediPens.
Player healing.
Due to the open-world architecture of the Crusader system, FPS combat can occur on space stations, on the decks of ships, or even while engaged in EVA.
A space station location specifically designed for and dedicated to FPS combat, including many stores and caches of personal weapons.

Spaceflight

Constant and ongoing skirmishes and space dogfights between Pirate factions and insystem security forces in the Yela asteroid belt.
Wreckage to scavenge in the Yela asteroid belt.
Ship Repair, Refuel and Restocking at Cry-Astro.
EVA – Extravehicular activity.
Multicrew Ships.
Multicrew ship gameplay! You’re not tied to your seat, you can walk around inside your ship with friends, and assume different responsibilities at different crew stations, such as ship’s pilot or copilot, engineer, or turret gunner.
Ship to space transitions.
Seamless first-person gameplay! Transit between the interior of your ship to outer space and back without any loading screen! Fly, fight, and spacewalk all in the same game.
Quantum Travel, complete with limited fuel mechanics.
All non-snub craft have a Quantum Drive that allows them to travel through local space at genuinely 0.2 speed of light.
Mobiglass Mission and Journal system.
EMP warfare in the Avenger Warlock.
Large World tech that allows for extremely large expanses of space to explore without loading screens.
New IFCS Flight models.
Ship repair refuel and restock.
Party system.
Multi-ship crew stations.
IFCS Flight Modes – Precision, SCM, and Cruise flight modes.
Afterburner.
Ship-to-ship EMP and disruption damage.

Locations

1 planet: Crusader.
3 moons: Yela with its asteroid belt, Cellin with a station and Daymar with a station.
3 distinct stations: Port Olisar (The new local shipping hub, a space hotel players get their start in), Security Post Kareah (our FPS PvP location), Covelex Shipping Hub (Abandoned shipping hub, acting as an EVA exploration location for players).
1 Cry-Astro repair and restock station.
9 Comms Arrays with encounters, missions and EVA exploration.

[Oner]

 

At least Obsidian delivered a product, pretty much as advertised too.

 

Exactly my point.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/71554-pre-load-is-now-available/?p=1595296

 

Thanks for the headache.

[Luridis]

I think that anyone who honestly believes that the game will come out as promised is deluding themselves. Hard.

SC will all end in tears.

 

 

I mean, does this sound at all feasible in the slightest?

 

 

However I have to say I'm not all too impressed with how that article was put out. They should have put more effort into verifying the sources, and given Roberts an appropriate amount of time to respond.

A pity, because I rather like Lizzy.

Also, while I think that people need to call out bull**** where they see it, Derek Smart's murderboner for Star Citizen is distinctly odd.

 

It looks pretty feasible to me. As a matter of fact, it has always been feasible. The reason no one has done it is because 3D engines aren't typically made with the math libraries necessary to do it. Read: Specialized vector transforms that translate a larger float for the world space, camera frustum, or both. Including tricks like rendering two scenes, one with a z-depth behind the other. Believe me, I've looked at how it would be done extensively from a programming perspective. The biggest single problem is that the best solutions to the large coordinate space problems cannot be done as a quick fix, they're far easier to build the engine around, than modify existing engines to do. Most games don't need this sort of thing. Even open world games like Skyrim can get by without a 64 bit world integer. But, if you wanted to cover seamless distance from the sun to Pluto, with millimeter precision, you'll need to completely run even that number (64 bit) out at least twice, shifting the world origin each time you do.

 

The root problem is, and always has been, a lack of need for large precision numbers in video games. None of these genres need them, or at least not in their current iterations: FPS, Sports, Strategy, RPG, Adventure, Puzzle, Platformer. The need for this is almost exclusive to simulation games and even flight sims can work around the problem more easily. The result is that those massively parallel GPU's we've come to love lose most (over 90%) of their GFLOPS by switching to 64 bit numbers. So, unless we want to see a slide-show, tricks are going to be involved in rendering scenes that involve units of both quintillion and milli. There are dozens of rendering tricks for this, and none of them solve every problem. Especially... if you expect to do this stuff at 1:1 scale.

 

All that said, I've been a Star Citizen backer from the original Kickstart campaign. I put in my hundred bucks in the hopes it would pan out and, while the ongoing campaign concerns me, they have produced. Even the various stages of the alpha I've tried have all been stable and worked well. My hope is that they'll finish it within the next couple of years. If not, it was worth a hundred bucks, I've tossed that away and gotten less from other stuff.

 

As far as the feasibility goes: This... this is not bad. Not bad at all. (And I suspect the unmodified CryEngine wouldn't be able to do this, it is more than LOD adjustment.)

 

Edited December 17, 2015 by Luridis