Do you want experience from combat?

[DnaCowboy]

I gave it some thought aaaaaaaaand I don't care about it that much. Both's fine by me.

 

 

Okay, now we have a definitive answer to the question

 

Out of curiosity: when did the poll expired?

 

It is still open although I find it strange seeing how adding combat xp to the game would take nothing away from backers who like the Quest XP mode.

[IndiraLightfoot]

 

 

 

It is still open although I find it strange seeing how adding combat xp to the game would take nothing away from backers who like the Quest XP mode.

 

Some of their proponents argue that it does, but it would be a small thing turning those xp flags off via a toggle when you start a new game, and then pump up their xp granted at their precious quest nodes. Case solved, np.

Edited August 29, 2014 by IndiraLightfoot

[DnaCowboy]

 

 

 

 

It is still open although I find it strange seeing how adding combat xp to the game would take nothing away from backers who like the Quest XP mode.

 

Some of their proponents argue that it does, but it would be a small thing turning those xp flags off via a toggle when you start a new game, and then pump up their xp granted at their precious quest nodes. Case solved, np.

 

 

[Immortalis]

Rpgcodex: best rpg of all time

 

 

Just google it, the success of the tides of numeanor kickstarter success is also a good indicator for it and if commercially successfull equals quality for you than you must think the call of duty series is the best franchise ever created.

 

Well when the game doesn't make enough money to cover it's budget in the first year, then yeah it's definitely a flop by anyone's standard. As for the kickstarter, well it just rode the hype train that Wastelands and PoE created. If Torment was the first KS out of the gate I very much doubt it would have made even a quarter of that money.

 

RPG Codes: Best RPG of all time

IGN: Place 13 on the best rpg list

Gamespot: "one of the greatest rpg's ever made"

why do I even list those go to the wiki article and read the reception/awards section

 

IGN

Gamespot

 

RPG CODEX? :lol:

 

Planes was good for what it was.. People definately remember that game more fondly then it probably deserves. It's not my favorite game by a long shot.. It would have been better without combat XP..

 

It's the Yang to Baldurs gate.

 

Planescape should have been on a tight narrative path with branches out and made combat almost non-essential at all.. seeing as you can die unlimited times and basically gimp raise your companions.. combat was just a tool for story telling.. you had no way to lose the game from combat honestly. There was no challenge to over come and XP was useless in that game except for non-combat stats.

 

Infact I think the IE engine was one of the worst engines you could use for planescape from a systems and balance perspective.. the graphics still look cool though.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Immortalis

[Mayama]

 

IGN

Gamespot

 

RPG CODEX? :lol:

 

 

 

I only posted 3 which are from different angles, use google and you will find out its basicaly at the top of every list, lots of them made by communites.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Mayama

[Immortalis]

 

 

 

IGN

Gamespot

 

RPG CODEX? :lol:

 

 

 

I only posted 3 which are from different angles, use google and you will find out its basicaly at the top of every list, lots of them made by communites.

 

 

 

It's the hipster thing to do.. I honestly believe most people who love Planescape never even finished the game.

 

However:

 

http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0187405/trivia

 

While praised almost universally, it failed to capture the mass-market imagination in the same way that its predecessor Baldur's Gate did - selling around 400,000 copies. The original Diablo game, released three years earlier, (albeit a rather different sort of game) reputedly sold approximately 2.5 million copies.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Immortalis

[Mayama]

 

While praised almost universally, it failed to capture the mass-market imagination in the same way that its predecessor Baldur's Gate did - selling around 400,000 copies. The original Diablo game, released three years earlier, (albeit a rather different sort of game) reputedly sold approximately 2.5 million copies.

 

Look I really dont get why you all say amount of selled copies equals quality in those xp threads. On the one hand, people here express their hate against those "soulless" trible A games and on the other hand you say that sold copies is a indicator for quality. You basicaly say that assassins creed and cod are the best games ever made, also they should make PoE closer to diablo, guild wars 2 or the witcher because those games sold more copies than baldurs gate2. Following your argument thats exactly what you want.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Mayama

[leninghola]

2 poll options? Trash talking Torment? I sense a disturbance in the force.

[Immortalis]

 

 

While praised almost universally, it failed to capture the mass-market imagination in the same way that its predecessor Baldur's Gate did - selling around 400,000 copies. The original Diablo game, released three years earlier, (albeit a rather different sort of game) reputedly sold approximately 2.5 million copies.

 

Look I really dont get why you all say amount of selled copies equals quality in those xp threads. On the one hand, people here express their hate against those "soulless" trible A games and on the other hand you say that sold copies is a indicator for quality. You basicaly say that assassins creed and cod are the best games ever made, also they should make PoE closer to diablo, guild wars 2 or the witcher because those games sold more copies than baldurs gate2. Following your argument thats exactly what you want.

 

 

 

When planescape released.. it was considered "Triple A".. as was all the IE games.. (well maybe not IWD2.. I mean NWN was on the shelf next to it )

 

What is your point exactly? First you say community polls and "Best of" Lists are an indicator of a games quality (by popular vote on that community I assume) but then say that sales (people actually voting with their wallet instead of crapping out a review of top 10 games) is not an indicator of how good a game is.

 

Like why does Skyrim sell as many copies as it does whereas Dragon Age 2 doesn't. Is it all the hype machine? I thought Dragon Age 2 had plenty of hype. Quality leads to sales.

 

I am curious what your trying to prove.. I was just pointing out that the reputable sources you listed were shills at best.. IGN seriously? and that Sarex was correct in stating planescape had crappy sales.

 

I personally enjoy planescape but its' not even close to my favorite IE game.

 

EDIT

I also want to point out the reviews you posted were basically shilling by one author anyways.. except the CODEX reivew in which planescape won over Fallout by how many votes? and how many votes over BG 2?

 

Exactly. The votes of a handful of people just decided on behalf of the entire world that planescape is universally the best IE game ever... seriously? Then you complain about my poll.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Immortalis

[Mayama]

I also want to point out the reviews you posted were basically shilling by one author anyways.. except the CODEX reivew in which planescape won over Fallout by how many votes? and how many votes over BG 2?

 

Exactly. The votes of a handful of people just decided that planescape is universally the best IE game ever... seriously? Then you complain about my poll.

 

Well sarex said that gameplay > story always in rank of importance and I just pointed out that this is not always the case because people really love games like planescape torment, you could also add games like the old silent hill ones which had also horrible ****ty mechanics. After that people started to ****talk torment using the miserable sales as the argument to proof how bad it is. At which point I said that I find it rather ridiculous to assume that amount of copy saled equals quality and posted some links that show that a lot of people really like torment. After that people started to question my sources because they ran out of arguments.

 

EDIT:

The reason why I couldnt resist doing it was that the same people that complained that no kill-xp is a result of the general direction of the gaming industry in which shallow games are bought by the "stupid" majority now basicaly use the same argument in that gameplay > story debate in favor of kill-xp. Its almost impossible to not play the devil's advocate here.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Mayama

[Uomoz]

Like why does Skyrim sell as many copies as it does whereas Dragon Age 2 doesn't. Is it all the hype machine? I thought Dragon Age 2 had plenty of hype. Quality leads to sales.

 

Putting PST near DA2. Please. Oh... Please. Go take a break or something.

[Gromnir]

 

 

 

 

Jeeze I thought gromnir was from a non english speaking country doing his best to write in english. Wow he writes that way by choice?

got an mfa in english and everything. go figure.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

To bad you don't use it, seriously your posts are painful to read.  I honestly don't know what half your arguments are about because I don't bother reading them.

 

Gromnir, on the other hand, feels complete justified in dismissing half your arguments only after reading them.  

 

what does that say 'bout your character compared to ours? we wonder.

 

"The ingenuity is in the details, of an imaginary dialect. Which is already incorrect, as it is an imaginary syntax. Also incorrect, since it exists on 'paper', consistently, not solely in the imagination. My best guess as a hack English major, is, it's a distinct mix of simple present and past continuous verb tenses, built on decapitating adverbs, wrapped in received pronunciation. Consistent reproduction can only indicate a greater comprehension of the official language. Also explains the schmuck detection. "

 

that sorta perspicacity has no place on a crpg message board. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

 Doesn't matter it's all white noise. I don't know what your saying and now that I know it's an act I don't care. I tried reading your stuff because I thought  that was you. 

 

funny how your inability to s'posed understand doesn't prevent you from making the snarky and off-topic responses... just meaningful ones.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[Karkarov]

Hi, my name is common sense man.  Maybe you haven't noticed but the game is releasing in the next 3-3.5 months.  It has lots of bugs and potential balance issues.  Much needs to be polished and improved.  Maybe it is just me but... it is a little too late to redesign the entire exp system which is one of the core backbones of the game.  They literally do not have the time.  So maybe we should all just suck it up and try to learn to love what we have.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Karkarov

[Marceror]

Who loves PS:T? For my part, I do. I wasn't twelve when it was released. I was just starting my career after college.

 

Best RPG of all time? For me that's Baldur's Gate. But PS:T is a close second. In fact, I have a 3 day weekend coming up and I'm seriously considering playing it for like the 7th or 8th time.

 

No desire to touch PoE BB again until it gets a SERIOUS patch.

[Corivar]

Yes to combat xp

[Gromnir]

 

Planescape Torment is considered one of the best RPGs ever because the hip, trendy hive-mind of gaming journalism says so. Most of Torment's devotees online were probably twelve when it was released.

 

I'm not attacking Torment, although it was never my cup of tea, but the praise heaped on it is mystifying. Until you realise it's like the person who claims to have read a book he or she feels they must like to keep up with the herd.

I would not discripe rpgCodex as the "trendy hive-mind of gaming journalism"

 

rpgcodex opinions...

 

wouldn't call 'em trendy, no.  

 

antisemitic and frequently racist? yeah. polarized to an absurd degree? yeah.  over inflated opinion o' their significance? yeah.

 

is a funny little gag site where the contributors is the only folks who don't seem to get the joke.

 

HA! Good Fun!

[TheNationer]

Surely rare equipment drops and item finds off of things/from areas you would not find without exploring or killing, mitigates the no kill xp issue for the explorers amongst us? And exploring quests that specifically ask you to venture into parts unknown is again another way to mitigate kill xp and reward travellers/drifters, just as implementing quests that can be solved via unique conversation choices allow for the silver-tongued characters to succeed?

 

The most one dimensional way to give xp is via killing mobs imo, and the most flexible way is to give xp via story/quest progression with multiple solutions.

[Fiebras]

I think Exploraton XP would be nice. I dont think Combat XP is an absolute necesity. It would be ok to have but it isnt a deal breaker imo.

[Helm]

Hi, my name is common sense man.

Hi there, common sense man.

 

 

it is a little too late to redesign the entire exp system which is one of the core backbones of the game. They literally do not have the time. So maybe we should all just suck it up and try to learn to love what we have.

This is like trying to love Janet Reno. I can't love this.

 

They need to delay the game and fix it.

Edited August 29, 2014 by Helm

[Cantousent]

PS:T is probably my favorite game, but arguments for quest only XP need not rely on citing it.  Sure, PS:T provides examples that are perfectly legitimate in discussing quest only XP, but they shouldn't rely on it.  I also don't tend to introduce story rewards in the quest/combat XP argument.  Story rewards are separate from XP rewards which are separate from loot.  There will be story and loot incentives to kill monsters, and folks should at least give a nod to that fact, but it's not all that important to the argument.  Maybe as a brief response to folks who pretend that combat is rendered pointless if it doesn't yield XP.

 

However, I don't really even advocate quest only XP.  I advocate a system that rewards overcoming challenges.  Trash mobs and the like shouldn't provide XP.  As an aside, I've seen some folks say that BG and BG2 didn't have trash mobs, which is ridiculous.  At any rate, since there will be many relatively minor foes in a CRPG, I don't think we should get XP for fighting them.  There will, however, be major foes.  For example, I guess there's a big assed spider in the beta.  Now, I don't think you should combat XP for killing the spider.  I *do* think you should get a reward for overcoming/getting past the spider, one method of which could be killing it.  It requires *a little* more effort in design, but I think it would be far better, and far more intuitive, than suggesting there need be a quest entry in your journal before you can get XP for overcoming the obstacle.  Frankly, while you might not have a 'quest' to overcome the spider, you should definitely have a journal entry for overcoming the obstacle presented by the huge assed spider or any other remarkable encounter.  I don't think what I suggest would placate all of the combat XP crowd, but my purpose isn't to placate other views so much as to advocate my own personal preference in regards to how XP would work in a game.

[Immortalis]

 

Like why does Skyrim sell as many copies as it does whereas Dragon Age 2 doesn't. Is it all the hype machine? I thought Dragon Age 2 had plenty of hype. Quality leads to sales.

 

Putting PST near DA2. Please. Oh... Please. Go take a break or something.

 

 

Don't try to be sensationalist by removing context or misquoting. It betrays your age.

[Uomoz]

Ahah don't be so angry man, you clearly did what I quoted. Implied that DA2 and PST are on the same tier. Come on xD.

[Nomadmerc]

The thread losing some focus lately. I disagree to those that say xp cannot be added this late in the game cause of workload or its like changing the core backbone of the game. 

 

If a large percentage of the current people backing the game report back that the quest only xp system is not fun then developers should make time to fix/change.

[Wintersong]

This is like trying to love Janet Reno. I can't love this.

 

They need to delay the game and fix it.

Delaying and fixing because a bunch of people don't like it, has never been a valid reason per se. The current system can work as long as it well done. But instead of working to improve it or test it, for some (just some) it's easier to jump to "I don't like it, change it". I don't think that evaluating the presence of xp on kill is a bad thing. It does have it's positive side. Unfortunately, the limited scope of the current beta doesn't allow to test further such ideas over the reality of the game and we only get the fantasy theorycraft of the boards. We would need more areas and more natural leveling (and less bugs!!). At least that's my opinion.

 

So as far as theories go, objective/quest xp is better therefore no need to delay to fix the system. If the reality of the game ends with badly done maps and xp system checks, then yeah, in hindsight not such a good idea but only because it's not well done.

[Cantousent]

If a large percentage of the current people backing the game report back that the quest only xp system is not fun then developers should make time to fix/change.

In terms of overall percentage of backers, how would they know how many backers have even played the beta?  I know a lot of avid gamers who refuse to play demos or betas I the first place.  I played briefly to get a feel and stopped playing the beta quickly because I want to play the finished game.

 

The problem, as I see it, is that you can get a large percentage of respondents but still have a tiny sliver of the whole.  Now, if they had a professional pollster who could try to make what amounts to an online survey into a reasonable assessment, fine, but I doubt that's the case.  Since they can't do that, I don't think they should throw over their design decisions to message board whim.  I mean, they should take into account compelling arguments they read, assuming they're even reading this thread, but that doesn't mean tossing over their own expertise in favor of folks coming at them with pitchforks and fiery brands in an online setting.