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Do you want experience from combat?

Poll: Do You Want Combat Experience Included In The Game?  

377 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you the backer want experience from combat?

    • Yay, how on earth could any game call itself a crpg without combat exp?
      208
    • Nay, questing is king
      169
  2. 2. Would you be happy to wait for combat xp to be implemented in the main game or wait and pledge towards it as an add-on?

    • I'd prefer to have combat XP implemented in the main game although that means the game may be delayed
      109
    • I would far prefer combat XP be added as the first add-on pledge
      6
    • Would you be happy to wait for combat xp to be implemented in the main game or wait and pledge towards it as an add-on?
      1
    • Alternative approach (which the voter will lay out in thread)
      7
    • N/A
      89


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Arcanum is a nice game. The combat was a complete mess that became very unbalanced towards the end of the game. The crafting system and itemization weren't very good either.


Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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Ha ha. Gotcha. I love Diablo and I like the lore, a lot. Leonard Boyarsky did an excellent job.

 

I know enjoying mainstream stuff is [too often] frowned upon on these forums, but Blizzard are doing something right. Troika, OTOH, didn't.

Troika made vampire bloodlines which many consider as one of the best rpg storys ever.

I don't. I have a hard time getting into the Troika games. Arcanum is spectacularly crap.

 

Imo the problems are the last levels and weak side missions. Some parts like the ghost house and the abandoned hospital are pure genius. They should have made it more adventure and less rpg.

Edited by Mayama

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Ha ha. Gotcha. I love Diablo and I like the lore, a lot. Leonard Boyarsky did an excellent job.

 

I know enjoying mainstream stuff is [too often] frowned upon on these forums, but Blizzard are doing something right. Troika, OTOH, didn't.

 

Yea I wish Obsidian sucked as bad as Blizzard....there was a time before WoW and their games were still high quality and very well done.

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Of course XP from killing mobs!

Why does Mr Sawyer want to dictate how we are to play the game?

If someone likes questing let them, if someone likes grinding for XP let them.

The Goldbox games had it right; you got a little XP from combat and a bunch more from Questing but you had the choice on how to spend your time gaming and with which style you felt comfortable.

Even the TES games have that right! You can spend a gaming session just looking for ingredients or crafting if you feel like it and your character will actually benefit from what you do.

Combat is one of the main actions in CRPGs and getting benefits from it besides loot is one of its mainstreams...

If Mr Sawyer doesn't like the IE D&D system that's fine, if he "loves" Darklands that is even better....but why come up with solutions that resemble neither?

By removing any benefits from combat, since you still get the same XP whether you fought all the mobs or you ran straight to the boss, you are encouraging players to just avoid combat altogether!

Brilliant design decision!

So much for "spiritual successor to the IE games" guys; by putting a guy in charge who seems to hate everything about them for the sake of "balance" is losing the faith of the fanbase which funded this project under that premise. 

  • Like 8

Josh! What is best in life?

To balance your systems, to remove degeneracy, and to hear the lamentations of your backers!

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HA!  the game will tank because of quest xp? okie dokie. is this another certainty you folks have on "Planet Retardia"?

 

HA! Good Fun!

That's an odd comment from someone who insists on communicating in an imaginary dialect.

 

In any case I....kinda agree with you. Implementing a system where combat is rendered a pointless exercise likely won't cause the game to tank. Instead, it'll probably cause the game to suffer the PS:T syndrome.... everything is awesome except the combat.

Edited by Stun
  • Like 6

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And once more combat is suddenly only about XP.

Edited by Tartantyco

"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


[slap Aloth]

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Aaah yes. It's time now for the meaningless but ever entertaining rebuttal of: "combat is for the fun!". "combat is for roadblocking point A from point B in a quest" , and my personal favorite: "combat is for the roleplaying"!

  • Like 5

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HA!  the game will tank because of quest xp? okie dokie. is this another certainty you folks have on "Planet Retardia"?

 

HA! Good Fun!

That's an odd comment from someone who insists on communicating in an imaginary dialect.

 

In any case I....kinda agree with you. Implementing a system where combat is rendered a pointless exercise likely won't cause the game to tank. Instead, it'll probably cause the game to suffer the PS:T syndrome.... everything is awesome except the combat.

 

 

Which would be really ironic wouldn't it since this one is supposed to be the successor to BG and IWD, whereas Numenera is supposed to be the successor to PS:T.

 

That said.... let's remember PS:T for a moment. It had combat XP. The combat was also godawful. Hmm... ;)

 

It's like I've said time and time again - the problem isn't combat XP specifically, it's incentive structure. You have to provide a reason for players to do combat, whether it be RP based, loot based, XP based, or just because it's so much fun. They're not going to do combat XP. It's not going to happen. That should be blindingly obvious when you look at how this has always polled (both I've seen have combat XP as the minority opinion) and how much Q/A and balance work they have left to do before release. It's not going to happen. Period.

 

Suggesting other ways to incentivize combat for the player? Helpful. Bitching about combat XP for the umpteenth time? Not helpful. Not at all. :p

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That's an odd comment from someone who insists on communicating in an imaginary dialect.

 

 

 

Planet Retardia was the creation of one of your homeboys on the last page, not Gromnir, actually. You couldn't resist a chance to take a dig, though, could you?

Edited by Panteleimon

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I enjoy the combat in PoE, shooting lions is fun. Punching beetles is fun. Hell, despite the boar multiplying, killing the group of thugs is fun.

 

The thing that would make combat the funnest combat ever would be the inclusion of a codpiece mounted revolver.

 

 

 

sexmachine1.gif

 

  • Like 3

"Take your child murderin' god and shove his him up his own ass."-Volorun

 

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Planet Retardia was the creation of one of your homeboys on the last page, not Gromnir, actually. You couldn't resist a chance to take a dig, though, could you?

 

Let him throw that sh*t back at the one who threw it at him, not at someone who made no offense.

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Planet Retardia was the creation of one of your homeboys on the last page, not Gromnir, actually. You couldn't resist a chance to take a dig, though, could you?

 

Let him throw that sh*t back at the one who threw it at him, not at someone who made no offense.

 

 

Funny coming from someone so fond of speaking in the collective "we" when stating his opinions.

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Suggesting other ways to incentivize combat for the player?

 

Sorry, but you've just made me crash my lolocopter.

 

Do you actually understand what you just wrote? They need to 'incentivize' combat, an activity 80% of the game engine and character builds are about. It's like building a flight simulator where take off, landing and the bit inbetween is a bit of a drag.

 

Risk and reward. Choice and consequence. It's really simple. A combat-heavy game where it pays more to pump your storytyme stats and avoid combat. Utter genius. Why didn't anyone think of it before?

Edited by Monte Carlo
  • Like 4

sonsofgygax.JPG

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Aaah yes. It's time now for the meaningless but ever entertaining rebuttal of: "combat is for the fun!". "combat is for roadblocking point A from point B in a quest" , and my personal favorite: "combat is for the roleplaying"!

 

And that's why nobody ever plays any game unless it has Kill-XP.


"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


[slap Aloth]

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If you want this to be a remotely fair poll, might I suggest an objective perspective instead of your rather colorful choices of answers in the poll? You might be a troll who is just throwing fuel on the already burned out heap of a discussion called combat xp, but please have the choices be relevant and not just another bash at the developers choice of no combat xp.

Exactly, the second vote seems a lot like "do you like filling quests" while first one feels like "we dumb amateurs only love to bash **** till we get to lvl 40". 

 

 

Make "XP from combat" an option in menu and lets see how many of you know-it-alls will try it and then turn it back off.

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Aaah yes. It's time now for the meaningless but ever entertaining rebuttal of: "combat is for the fun!". "combat is for roadblocking point A from point B in a quest" , and my personal favorite: "combat is for the roleplaying"!

 

And that's why nobody ever plays any game unless it has Kill-XP.

 

I imagine it has almost nothing to do with whether or not anyone will play the game.

 

On the other hand, Whether or not they see its combat as pointless....

Edited by Stun

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Aaah yes. It's time now for the meaningless but ever entertaining rebuttal of: "combat is for the fun!". "combat is for roadblocking point A from point B in a quest" , and my personal favorite: "combat is for the roleplaying"!

 

And that's why nobody ever plays any game unless it has Kill-XP.

 

I imagine it has almost nothing to do with whether or not anyone will play the game.

 

On the other hand, Whether or not they see its combat as pointless....

 

If you use the word "pointless" in a manner that makes the word pointless, you're not really making an argument.

 

First of all, if it's fun, then it does serve a purpose. Secondly, if combat serves to increase the difficulty of accomplishing a task, as in being an obstacle between point A and point B, it's once again serves a purpose. Third, combat in PoE serves purposes beyond giving you XP. Story progression, loot, crafting, quest resolution, etc. Even "trash" mobs serve a purpose as a risk factor involved in exploring. 

 

Trying to hide behind the word "pointless" as if not explicitly writing what you mean will somehow save your argument doesn't actually fool anyone, you know.


"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


[slap Aloth]

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Aaah yes. It's time now for the meaningless but ever entertaining rebuttal of: "combat is for the fun!". "combat is for roadblocking point A from point B in a quest" , and my personal favorite: "combat is for the roleplaying"!

 And that's why nobody ever plays any game unless it has Kill-XP.

 

I like Zelda and it has no XP at all.

 

Wouldn't that be great for Pillars of Eternity? I think so, because Zelda is great.

 

Do you actually understand what you just wrote? They need to 'incentivize' combat, an activity 80% of the game engine and character builds are about. It's like building a flight simulator where take off, landing and the bit inbetween is a bit of a drag.

Indeed. Wasn't the core activity of this game supposed to be combat? xD
  • Like 1

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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If you use the word "pointless" in a manner that makes the word pointless, you're not really making an argument.

 

First of all, if it's fun, then it does serve a purpose. Secondly, if combat serves to increase the difficulty of accomplishing a task, as in being an obstacle between point A and point B, it's once again serves a purpose. Third, combat in PoE serves purposes beyond giving you XP. Story progression, loot, crafting, quest resolution, etc. Even "trash" mobs serve a purpose as a risk factor involved in exploring. 

 

Trying to hide behind the word "pointless" as if not explicitly writing what you mean will somehow save your argument doesn't actually fool anyone, you know.

First, Lets stop pretending that combat will always be tied to an objective, when we've already witnessed a beta that demonstrates otherwise. Ok? Second, lets stop splitting hairs. If an unrewarded combat's only point is to block something purposeful, then we've got something worse than pointless. We've got a pointless hindrance. Third, putting a bunch of encounters on maps that contain no quests/quest objectives whatsoever, and then compounding this by not even rewarding XP for exploring those maps, is the very definition of Pointless.

 

Stop defending stupid design.

Edited by Stun
  • Like 6

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"They need to 'incentivize' combat, an activity 80% of the game engine and character builds are about. It's like building a flight simulator where take off, landing and the bit inbetween is a bit of a drag."

 

 

 

So, you don't believe xp should be rewarded for quests right? Since the gameplay is based on comepting quests there's no need incentivize it.


DWARVES IN PROJECT ETERNITY = VOLOURN HAS PLEDGED $250.

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Planet Retardia was the creation of one of your homeboys on the last page, not Gromnir, actually. You couldn't resist a chance to take a dig, though, could you?

 

Let him throw that sh*t back at the one who threw it at him, not at someone who made no offense.

 

 

we did. you is the one getting confused.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps 'cause we is feeling helpful

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68043-do-you-want-experience-from-combat/?p=1496735

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Er...that "planet retardia" comment was directed at the devs. So why did you fire it back at us 'folks'?

Edited by Stun

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Er...that comment was directed at the devs. So why did you fire it back at us 'folks'?

 

BWAHHHAAAHHHAAA!

 

are you serious? poor helm uses the Planet Retardia nonsense, and so when he suggests game will tank simply 'cause it uses quest xp, we offer him his own "Planet Retardia" comment in response. surely he can't complain, so why would you? 

 

having to give you the kid glove treatment is getting old fast.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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