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Do you want experience from combat?

Poll: Do You Want Combat Experience Included In The Game?  

377 members have voted

  1. 1. Do you the backer want experience from combat?

    • Yay, how on earth could any game call itself a crpg without combat exp?
      208
    • Nay, questing is king
      169
  2. 2. Would you be happy to wait for combat xp to be implemented in the main game or wait and pledge towards it as an add-on?

    • I'd prefer to have combat XP implemented in the main game although that means the game may be delayed
      109
    • I would far prefer combat XP be added as the first add-on pledge
      6
    • Would you be happy to wait for combat xp to be implemented in the main game or wait and pledge towards it as an add-on?
      1
    • Alternative approach (which the voter will lay out in thread)
      7
    • N/A
      89


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First, Lets stop pretending that combat will always be tied to an objective, when we've already witnessed a beta that demonstrates otherwise. Ok?

 

It doesn't have to be tied to an objective.

 

 Second, lets stop splitting hairs. If an unrewarded obstacle's only point is to block something purposeful, then we've got something worse than pointless. We've got a pointless hindrance.

 

 

Do you even comprehend what you're saying?

 

Third, putting a bunch of encounters on maps that contain no quests/quest objectives whatsoever, and then compounding this by not even rewarding XP for exploring those maps, is the very definition of Pointless.

 

 

You're intentionally "forgetting" that XP isn't the only reward you can get from encounters. And even then, so what if the occasional encounter is pointless?


"You're a fool if you believe I would trust your benevolence. Step aside and you and your lackeys will be unhurt."


 


 


Baldur's Gate portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale portraits for Pillars of Eternity   IXI   Icewind Dale 2 portraits for Pillars of Eternity


 


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Er...that "planet retardia" comment was directed at the devs. So why did you fire it back at us 'folks'?

It was directed at the absurd hypothesis that it is impossible to improve a game or change core mechanics without more development time. It wasn't directed at the devs.

 

EDIT: I think I am out of context now. I just wanted to write why I used used that analogy.

 

EDIT 2: Gromnir then flung it back at me saying I (we) originate from Planet Retardia, because we like combat XP.

Edited by Helm

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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Er...that "planet retardia" comment was directed at the devs. So why did you fire it back at us 'folks'?

It was directed at the absurd hypothesis that it is impossible to improve a game or change core mechanics without more development time. It wasn't directed at the devs.

 

thanks for honesty.

 

so, the "Planet Retardia" bit were inspired by an "absurd hypothesis," much like suggesting PoE would tank 'cause of xp mechanic... in spite o' the fact that the developers who actual see the QA folks playing the game, folks such as sawyer AND cain, believe that quest xp is the superior mechanic.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

ps we would never use retard, retardia, or any variation save to throwback at some person unpleasant enough to bring such an unfortunate descriptor to the board debate.

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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the fact that the developers who actual see the QA folks playing the game, folks such as Sawyer AND Cain, believe that quest xp is the superior mechanic.[/size]

And this is supposed to mean what, exactly? Are we all supposed to hold Cain and Sawyer to some undisputable high authority on what constitutes 'superior' game design simply because they decided to observe a group of QA people playing a beta?

 

 

BWAHHHAAAHHHAAA!

 

are you serious? poor helm uses the Planet Retardia nonsense, and so when he suggests game will tank simply 'cause it uses quest xp, we offer him his own "Planet Retardia" comment in response. surely he can't complain, so why would you?

I'm not. Check my post from the last page. Edited by Stun

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Er...that comment was directed at the devs. So why did you fire it back at us 'folks'?

 

BWAHHHAAAHHHAAA!

 

are you serious? poor helm uses the Planet Retardia nonsense, and so when he suggests game will tank simply 'cause it uses quest xp, we offer him his own "Planet Retardia" comment in response. surely he can't complain, so why would you?

 

I'm not. Check my post from the last page.

 

we did, and you is wrong, as helm admitted... though clearly he has confused himself at this point as he backpedals and tries to edit himself outta the hole he has dug for himself. "Planet Retardia" indeed.

 

"And this is supposed to mean what, exactly? Are we all supposed to hold Cain and Sawyer to some undisputable high authority on what constitutes 'superior' game design simply because they decided to observe a group of QA testers?"

 

that comment is a bit difficult to decipher, but am thinking you is wondering why we would give so much weight to Cain and Sawyer.

 

the fact that they are actual able to get firsthand feedback on how the game is being played is significant. in point o' fact, we would suggest that such first hand knowledge is of such an increased magnitude o' relevance and probative value that it makes the various prophecies o' doom based on little more than guesses and hypothesis seem laughable by comparison.

 

cain and sawyer has gotten more feedback from actual gamers playing actual games than we ever will. as such, while we don't always agree with their conclusions, they does have intimate and expert knowledge regarding the actual behavior o' gamers faced with quest xp v. kill xp. that knowledge does not make them infallible, but it it is valuable. where they is speaking to what they has witnessed from gamers playing the game, their words have extra weight.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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thanks for honesty.

 

 

 

 

so, the "Planet Retardia" bit were inspired by an "absurd hypothesis," much like suggesting PoE would tank 'cause of xp mechanic... in spite o' the fact that the developers who actual see the QA folks playing the game, folks such as sawyer AND cain, believe that quest xp is the superior mechanic.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Gollum, Sawyer thinks it is a good mechanic, but he is wrong, these countless threads prove it as do the beloved IE games. People make mistakes.

 

ps we would never use retard, retardia, or any variation save to throwback at some person unpleasant enough to bring such an unfortunate descriptor to the board debate.

Are you sure, Gollum? Read what you wrote:

 

so your observations about your home planet's [Planet Retardia] way o' doing things

Edited by Helm

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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I'm not. Check my post from the last page.

we did, and you is wrong,

 

I said check my post from the last page. I'm wrong for agreeing with you? lol.

 

Ps: BWHAHAHAHAH!

 

HA! GOOD FUN!

Edited by Stun
  • Like 2

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I'm not. Check my post from the last page.

we did, and you is wrong,

 

I said check my post from the last page. I'm wrong for agreeing with you? lol.

 

Ps: BWHAHAHAHAH!

 

HA! GOOD FUN!

 

which post from last page? the link in the quoted post here is new, as you no doubt realize at this point.

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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:deadhorse:

The horse isn't that fresh.

  • Like 2

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I said check my post from the last page. I'm wrong for agreeing with you? lol.

 

Ps: BWHAHAHAHAH!

 

HA! GOOD FUN!

which post from last page? the link in the quoted post here is new, as you no doubt realize at this point.

 

HA! Good Fun!

 

No it's not. It's working perfectly. It links us to my post from the last page.

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:deadhorse:

yes, nietzsche would weep.  the current xp mechanic will not be changed, but that fact will not keep a small handful o' horse floggers from developing tennis elbow from all their pointless efforts.

 

*groan*

 

your (stun's) Initial reference to a post from the previous page did not have a link. duh

 

it is sooooo hard having to treat you special... really, it is.

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68043-do-you-want-experience-from-combat/page-6?do=findComment&comment=1496995

 

see? no linky. 

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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In the end, if you pitch a game as a "spiritual successor" it has to stick pretty close to the games and systems it was supposed to succeed.

What most of the backers pitched their money for (besides nostalgia and a well done video which pulled all our strings) was basically an updated Infinity Engine game that had the encounter design of Icewind Dale, the class customization and abilities of Icewind Dale 2, the epic storyline of Baldur´s Gate 2 and the smart deep thinking and character arcs of Planescape Torment

Instead we get a "meh I can do this better" design with ability cooldowns and xp only for questing...why mess up with something that has worked since CRPG started?

Heck, if you don't like XP then dont use it, go full Darklands on us with a skill based system (where you get better by doing something; be it killing, casting or doing good deeds to get more Divine Favor) or even go full Wizardry where you get XP for killing stuff but skills have to be used to develop....but don't call it "IE spiritual successor"  and decide to turn it on its head on some delusional tattooed lead designer hipster dreams

I am thinking that not having an "evil publisher" is simply not working out for some Kickstarters, and the most damaged by this are the more experienced ones since they feel they don't have to "play it safe" or try to stick to what is proved, works and people actually put their money upfront 2 years ago.

  • Like 5

Josh! What is best in life?

To balance your systems, to remove degeneracy, and to hear the lamentations of your backers!

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I want combat xp for this game. But your poll is flawed. This is a combat heavy game, so it makes sense to have combat xp. I can definately see a legitimate crpg being made with no combat xp. I just dont thar makes sense for this game. Your poll needs to be reworded.

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I do not want to answer this poll as I don't want either option but more similar to D:OS where you get xp in smaller quantities for all kind of stuff.

 

Me too.

 

However I believe the developers' focus is in fixing critical game bugs rather than reworking the whole XP system and, at least IMO, they are right to do so.


Matilda is a Natlan woman born and raised in Old Vailia. She managed to earn status as a mercenary for being a professional who gets the job done, more so when the job involves putting her excellent fighting abilities to good use.

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It didn't need one gromnir.

 

And...it doesn't matter. You quoted the post that had a link, and STILL played dumb about it. Or maybe you weren't playing.

 

...

 

am suspecting you have even forgotten where/how this all started. the point o' contention were our "planet retardia" bit. 

 

"Er...that "planet retardia" comment was directed at the devs. So why did you fire it back at us 'folks'? "

 

your linky does not show you admitting your mistake. your liinky does recognize that HELM's claim o' imminent tankage was wrong.

 

a simple apology would suffice. if you admit you were wrong, you can walk away with head held high and nobody will mock you for your mistakes.

...

 

all o' which is utterly pointless... again. you get so tied up in the nonsense and forget even the topic o' the thread or issues you posed... such as actual on-topic issues like cain/sawyer knowledge, which you has seeming forgotten? weird. 

 

HA! Good Fun!


"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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Fixing bugs and tuning basic gameplay systems are one thing, tailoring your whole experience to a design choice which affects everything is another.

Think of it this way, since the game will be split in "acts or episodes" then there will be a limited number of quests per episode, meaning that once again for the sake of "balance" all parties will be at the same level for each "act" since I bet Mr Sawyer will make it so you get a set amount of XP per quest....but that will be set per character, not per global amount to be split between the group, thus making smaller parties or even single playing the game not a viable strategy.

Remember doing the numbers (or reading them on the net) for having a 5 or even 4 member party in Icewind Dale 2 so you could have access to the Fireball spell to make things a lot more interesting for the bigger battles?

Yep, all gone...all strategy is gone for the sake of "balance"


Josh! What is best in life?

To balance your systems, to remove degeneracy, and to hear the lamentations of your backers!

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You are mistaken. But that is of no concern to me. I'm not your tutor. I'm just someone who takes pleasure in responding to silly posts.

 

HA! the game will tank because of quest xp? okie dokie. is this another certainty you folks have on "Planet Retardia"?

 

HA! Good Fun!

That's an odd comment from someone who insists on communicating in an imaginary dialect.

 

In any case I....kinda agree with you. Implementing a system where combat is rendered a pointless exercise likely won't cause the game to tank. Instead, it'll probably cause the game to suffer the PS:T syndrome.... everything is awesome except the combat.

Edited by Stun

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You are mistaken. But that is of no concern to me. I'm not your tutor.

 

HA! the game will tank because of quest xp? okie dokie. is this another certainty you folks have on "Planet Retardia"?

 

HA! Good Fun!

That's an odd comment from someone who insists on communicating in an imaginary dialect.

 

In any case I....kinda agree with you. Implementing a system where combat is rendered a pointless exercise likely won't cause the game to tank. Instead, it'll probably cause the game to suffer the PS:T syndrome.... everything is awesome except the combat.

 

am thinking something went wrong with your post: point not found.

 

shocking.

 

but again, this were the contentious post

 

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/68043-do-you-want-experience-from-combat/?p=1496978

 

your linky is irrelevant.

 

HA! Good Fun!

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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This is a combat heavy game, so it makes sense to have combat xp. I can definately see a legitimate crpg being made with no combat xp. I just dont thar makes sense for this game. Your poll needs to be reworded.

Yep, and that game is called Torment: Tides of Numenera. It makes sense that the game won't have any combat XP.

 

But that game's XP system is already superior to the one in PoE, because it will have objective and exploration XP, something this game doesn't have. And you don't have to walk around the trash mobs either like in PoE, because there aren't any.  :grin:

Edited by Helm
  • Like 4

Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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So the issue is dead and buried then? No xp fo show?

So we are just rats banging our heads against the wall...

Why didn't I know about the xp before upping my pledge a couple of weeks ago?

Funny how Divinity Original Sin (a game I didn't back nor cared at all about before release) will turn out to be the true Kickstarter jewel and Larian will have the chance to be "the new Black Isle" while Obsidian (made up of quite a few Black Isle exes) simply will not

  • Like 1

Josh! What is best in life?

To balance your systems, to remove degeneracy, and to hear the lamentations of your backers!

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am thinking something went wrong with your post: point not found.

Like I said, that is of no concern to me. I'm not your tutor.

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Funny how Divinity Original Sin (a game I didn't back nor cared at all about before release) will turn out to be the true Kickstarter jewel and Larian will have the chance to be "the new Black Isle" while Obsidian (made up of quite a few Black Isle exes) simply will not

Yes because the writing in original sin is like the best thing ever, right?

  • Like 1

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^ He's saying that D:OS is a fantastic game and that this won't be a fantastic game.


Pillars of Eternity Josh Sawyer's Quest: The Quest for Quests - an isometric fantasy stealth RPG with optional combat and no pesky XP rewards for combat, skill usage or exploration.


PoE is supposed to be a spiritual successor to Baldur's GateJosh Sawyer doesn't like the Baldur's Gate series (more) - PoE is supposed to reward us for our achievements


~~~~~~~~~~~


"Josh Sawyer created an RPG where always avoiding combat and never picking locks makes you a powerful warrior and a master lockpicker." -Helm, very critcal and super awesome RPG fan


"I like XP for things other than just objectives. When there is no rewards for combat or other activities, I think it lessens the reward for being successful at them." -Feargus Urquhart, OE CEO


"Didn’t like the fact that I don’t get XP for combat [...] the lack of rewards for killing creatures [in PoE] makes me want to avoid combat (the core activity of the game)" -George Ziets, Game Dev.

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