Experience Point Mechanics - Fighting Enemies

[Lephys]

@PrimeJunta,

 

And I accept that, but you also don't reply to everything I say despite not reading it, so I have absolutely no problem with that.

 

 

@Immortalis,

 

I don't always have the time to read every single post in a thread, or remember them all perfectly even if I did (when the thread is multiple pages in length). The easiest thing to do, if that is really the case, is to say "I already stated that," and/or optionally link to the post in which you already said that.

 

All you told me was "I feel like you're not reading what I'm typing" and "I don't think you're addressing what I'm saying." So, my apologies if you already said that very thing, and in my human limitation, I missed that fact.

 

Also, I'm not trying to win anything, so I have no premise for that.

[Immortalis]

@Immortalis,

 

I don't always have the time to read every single post in a thread, or remember them all perfectly even if I did (when the thread is multiple pages in length). The easiest thing to do, if that is really the case, is to say "I already stated that," and/or optionally link to the post in which you already said that.

But I did do that.. and you still barreled away in an essay long response instead of taking time to read and learn slightly different perspectives and maybe respond to how you felt about those perspectives. Again, I did many times say "You aren't reading my posts or understanding what I am saying.."

 

You took the time to write a 1200 word essay but not the time to read our (me and the other peoples) opinions (which were quite short I feel) and really respond to what we were saying.

 

As a result nobody has a clue what you are talking about in your essays because your not taking the time to read our posts and ideas.. you read the first sentence then dump a truck load of -what you thought we were gonna say- opinions on us..

 

Quality over quantity next time Lephys. Thanks Man!

 

[Lephys]

Sure thing.

[Silent Winter]

As a result nobody has a clue what you are talking about in your essays

 

Just to remove the extremity from this post - I read and understand (99% of the time anyway) what Lephys says (though I often see people misunderstanding what he's written so it's obviously not perfect, and also see him misunderstanding others).  I do think he's genuinely trying to explain himself though since he often does get misunderstood.  Perhaps in turn he should also seek clarification on points written by others, but then we don't always know when we've misunderstood because we've understood it in the wrong way.

 

 

*Look behind you, a 3 headed monkey*

[DCParry]

Sure thing.

 

BAH! Don't listen to these philistines! While brevity may have once been the soul of wit, the modern tendency towards "splurts" of expressions is disheartening and an anathema to productive discussion. 

 

Do not change yourself Lephys! Honestly, if people can't understand you, it is not that you aren't making you a good faith effort. The most likely barriers are laziness or wilful ignorance, since I am working on the premise that no  one here is actually mentally deficient. 

[ShadySands]

Sure thing.

Tl;dr

[Doppelschwert]

I don't always have the time to read every single post in a thread, or remember them all perfectly even if I did (when the thread is multiple pages in length). The easiest thing to do, if that is really the case, is to say "I already stated that," and/or optionally link to the post in which you already said that.

 

Now that's outright ironic. And explains a lot as well.

[Karkarov]

The most likely barriers are laziness or wilful ignorance, since I am working on the premise that no  one here is actually mentally deficient. 

I can only hope your assumption about all posters is correct DC....  Some threads make me wonder at times ;p

[Immortalis]

 

Sure thing.

 The most likely barriers are laziness or wilful ignorance, since I am working on the premise that no  one here is actually mentally deficient. 

 

 

Everyone who can't understand how Lephys's Comments correlate with the posts he quotes and only partially reads himself.. (by his own admisson) are now either Lazy, Ignorant or mentally retarded?

 

Is that honestly your opinion? Thanks Man.

[Lephys]

Everyone who can't understand how Lephys's Comments correlate with the posts he quotes and only partially reads himself.. (by his own admisson) are now either Lazy, Ignorant or mentally retarded?

Okay... seriously? Are we playing Criminal Lawyer, here?

 

"Your honor... he clearly said the words "don't" and "read," in conjunction, so I'm therefore at liberty to put those in whatever order and context I please, u_u"

 

I said I don't always have time to read every post in a thread. I never "by his own admission" said anything about only partially reading posts to which I'm directly replying.

 

How about a lovely example, since I'm fond of those:

 

If you post "Cats are friggin' awesome!" on page 3, then on page 6, you post "But yeah, there should definitely be spiffy animals in the game"... I may very well post "Yeah, you're right! You know what would be an awesome animal to have in the game? CATS!"

 

And there you are. I really despise all this underhanded mudslinging crap. It doesn't hurt me, it just serves absolutely no purpose.

 

I'm just gonna put this out there, as well: I know I'm not perfect, and I know I have difficulty, sometimes, specifying my thoughts in very few words. However, about half the "OMG, Lephys, you need to type less!" complaints I've seen on these boards are following others actively prompting me for elaboration/clarification. Much like the above. You just lied, and I pointed it out. I feel that's not abnormal, and I'm perfectly happy with my little defective android brain.

 

I understand frustration at my Lephys-y thought processes, but switching to "this is personal" mode is never a productive solution. If anyone ever just doesn't care to hear any more about it from me anymore, they can say so, and I will gladly cease immediately. But, this is a discussion forum. If you get to pick apart what I said, then so do I. Fair's fair.

 

(And thanks to peeps who have my back. I do give it an honest effort, and sometimes it just feels like there's nothing but silence and "Lephys is unworthy of posting" sentiments. Sometimes.)

 

Annnnywho...

 

Back to EXP mechanics, then, shall we?

Edited August 6, 2014 by Lephys

[Grace85]

I also don't have the time to always read up on previous posts...

 

So in case it's allready been mentioned, my apologies.

 

In regard to the not giving any kill experience, i don't see it making any big changes.

Instead it might encourage more people to think more before they just run in and blow everything to smithereens. Sure people will still do it, they get rewarded with maybe some loot. But other ones who will try a different approach won't be denied the experience loss, that usually is the big issue.

 

And now they removed the issue. So it's all a fair battlefield now. 

[Amentep]

Besides, everyone knows that chunking monsters is a reward in and to itself.  Hence Gauntlet's popularity.

[DCParry]

Besides, everyone knows that chunking monsters is a reward in and to itself.  Hence Gauntlet's popularity.

 

Green Wizard needs food.

[constantine]

Oh. I wasn't aware of the quest XP system up until now.

 

I love hearing it ! Since I'm a grinding type of player, I tend to become OP after one point or another and the game becomes cakewalk afterwards.

 

I'd love it if PoE remains challenging all the way through !

 

 

 

(don't ask why I grind so much in games and then hate the result-- i just can't help it !!)

[Hassat Hunter]

 

 

You seem to dislike almost all the mechanics or functionality they had that everyone else enjoyed..

Point me to a single instance of this...

 

Aside from, yes, agreeing changing kill-XP to objective-XP is a good progressive step forward toward roleplaying, questing and termination of grinding gameplay.

Also, all dungeons in BG/BG2/IWD/IWD2 were about 4 levels... or less.

4... 15... yeah, it's JUST THE SAME... except for *not*...

[Zansatsu]

I enjoy xp from slaying monsters Balancing issues aside, which seems far less critical since this is single player. We are talking role playing. The more I fight the more skill and expertise I gain through combat. Seems very RP to me. It only encourages killing things if there is no alternative. Now money and time are a factor so I'm not really upset by the choice but kill xp is not an outdated concept. Personal feelings, whatever the motivation, is what people have against it. The concept is sound.

[Stun]

Aside from, yes, agreeing changing kill-XP to objective-XP is a good progressive step forward toward roleplaying, questing and termination of grinding gameplay.

Also, all dungeons in BG/BG2/IWD/IWD2 were about 4 levels... or less.

4... 15... yeah, it's JUST THE SAME... except for *not*...

Just to be pedantic.... Durlag's tower was 8 levels (9 if you count the roof, where the greater Basilisks are). It is not inconceivable that PoE's megadungeon will be designed similarly, where some levels are above-ground floors of a small tower structure. Edited August 10, 2014 by Stun

[Stun]

Oh. I wasn't aware of the quest XP system up until now.

 

I love hearing it ! Since I'm a grinding type of player, I tend to become OP after one point or another and the game becomes cakewalk afterwards.

 

I'd love it if PoE remains challenging all the way through !

 

 

 

(don't ask why I grind so much in games and then hate the result-- i just can't help it !!)

This won't happen anyway, even if PoE did give out XP for kills. There's a level cap.

[neo6874]

 

Aside from, yes, agreeing changing kill-XP to objective-XP is a good progressive step forward toward roleplaying, questing and termination of grinding gameplay.

Also, all dungeons in BG/BG2/IWD/IWD2 were about 4 levels... or less.

4... 15... yeah, it's JUST THE SAME... except for *not*...

Just to be pedantic.... Durlag's tower was 8 levels (9 if you count the roof, where the greater Basilisks are). It is not inconceivable that PoE's megadungeon will be designed similarly, where some levels are above-ground floors of a small tower structure.

 

 

Think that's kind of the idea.  You (will) get the mega-dungeon introduces as part of the storyline, or at least a few levels of it.

 

It's not inconceivable that the "crit-path" part is upstairs, and you can find the optional stuff by killing the crit-path BBEG on the roof (or where-ever). 

[Immortalis]

 In addition to the top post..

 

 

You seem to dislike almost all the mechanics or functionality they had that everyone else enjoyed..

Point me to a single instance of this...

 

Aside from, yes, agreeing changing kill-XP to objective-XP is a good progressive step forward toward roleplaying, questing and termination of grinding gameplay.

Also, all dungeons in BG/BG2/IWD/IWD2 were about 4 levels... or less.

4... 15... yeah, it's JUST THE SAME... except for *not*...

 

 

Watchers keep had 5 "floors".. an outside area and the final boss area (7?.. maybe not fair lets say 6).. So that's low balling it just to start...

Also if you look at the watchers keeps actual 5 zones.. some of them were huge.. Like what are we counting as floors? That teleport room had like 12 areas inside of it. Does that count as one floor or 12?

 

(Watcher's Keep 3 is made up of (AR3003, AR3011, AR3008, AR3012, AR3004, AR3006, AR3013, AR3010, AR3005, AR3007, AR3014, AR3015))

 

My point is.. BG 1 and 2 had Mega Dungeons.. that is what BG is.. Your premise and statement was wrong that mega dungeons don't fit in a BG game.. no point having a pissing contest over which mega dungeon is the biggest.. again i question your memories of what BG even was.. It's not a personal attack.. it just seems you don't really have anything positive to say about the series or you are misremembering just how those games played.. so your suggestions for PoE make for a bad nostalgia recreation.

 

Don't get snippy or mad.. It's nothing personal

Edited August 10, 2014 by Immortalis

[Bryy]

We honestly won't know until we play it. It's just one of those things that can't be objectively looked at until you experience it.

[archangel979]

I would like to see killing enemies still reward a tiny amount of XP, just enough so players feel they got at least something. So more of a psychological effect.

 

Also if there are going to be random encounters a really small percentage of players might want to farm those for this tiny amount of XP and that is OK. The game gives them what they want and the rest of us will never bother with it.

[Gleipnir]

After playing age of decadence, I note that a nonviolent play-through is short as short can be, Indeed in that game you are discouraged to start a fight. My point is however that monsters are and have been a way to artificially lengthen a game, if PoE is indeed about the same size as BG map-wise, it will be a third of the game playtime-wise if you are a 100% nonviolent character.

[sibakruom]

After playing age of decadence, I note that a nonviolent play-through is short as short can be, Indeed in that game you are discouraged to start a fight. My point is however that monsters are and have been a way to artificially lengthen a game, if PoE is indeed about the same size as BG map-wise, it will be a third of the game playtime-wise if you are a 100% nonviolent character.

 

It's been stated that we won't be able to do a non-combat walkthrough (or at least, the game won't be designed with it in mind). Combat is supposed to be an important part of PoE.

[Immortalis]

I would like to see killing enemies still reward a tiny amount of XP, just enough so players feel they got at least something. So more of a psychological effect.

 

Also if there are going to be random encounters a really small percentage of players might want to farm those for this tiny amount of XP and that is OK. The game gives them what they want and the rest of us will never bother with it.

 

This sounds perfectly fine to me.. And again we can always give larger xp rewards for doing the safe route through a quest or make quest related npc's not generate XP to decrease the feeling that you NEED to kill stuff to complete a quest.

 

To go on a tangent again about how I feel on this topic..

What is so wrong with that.. What is wrong with getting a small amount of incentive to fight something other then.. Hurrr Combat is fun.. if it's not fun.. don't buy the game. I think that is one of the few things Josh says that just annoys me in every interview he does. Again.. getting that XP and progression is part of the fun of playing on top of strong combat mechanics and challenging fights.

 

If it's really just about not punishing people on quests.. there was a million ways to fix it beyond removing kill xp. I haven't found any good arguments for it's removal, instead I have begun to accept a game without it as not being terrible..

 

 

Besides, everyone knows that chunking monsters is a reward in and to itself.  Hence Gauntlet's popularity.

 

A perfect example why Sacred is probably a dead franchise as of Sacred 3. A RPG game that is combat focused with almost no progression is about as boring as watching paint dry. We are now comparing apples to oranges again.. but so is Gauntlet..

 

By Josh's logic.. Combat in Sacred 3 should be fun enough on it's own.. No need to bribe players with silly things like Item drops.. They should just enjoy stomping the **** out of stuff and call it a day. Don't like my decision? Don't buy the game.

Edited August 14, 2014 by Immortalis