Did a full playthrough of BG1-BG ToB..

[Benedictous]

I know its super late to talk about game design now, but this just ircked me so much playing through these games. Dungeon corridors. MY GOSH they are tiny. I would wait another year past this game's release date if they didn't have dungeons like that. 

Firewine Ruins lol. The Slums.  Sewers part 2. The Maze. uhhhh everywhere that isn't outdoors?

I felt like making a youtube video with some EPIC music as my guys would walk back and forth in front of the same doorway or take absurd paths with 0% chance of reaching the destination. Epic zoom-ins too of course. Now I know this isn't the same game on the same engine, but its from the same guys made in the spirit of the same games. lf there is terrible pathing and tight corridors that would really be a shame for this game because it made my playthrough much less enjoyable than it should have been.

[BrainMuncher]

There's no way the pathfinding will match the utter wretchedness of that in the IE. I think it's actually impossible.

[Walsingham]

A bit late to tell you now, but you do realise each character has a control hotkey?

 

Just don't target the whole group at once you lazy bastard.

[Sabotin]

It's part of the IE experience, so it will be included, I'm sure. Or maybe just for expert mode.

 

 

In all seriousness though, from what we've seen so far various corridors and such seem much wider, though whether that's from wanting to make movement easier or to counterbalanced the changed camera angle (or just an unrepresentative sample) I don't know.

[Hormalakh]

this was one of the things that they mentioned was an issue in the past and have been working on it for this game. we'll see what happens.

[Death Machine Miyagi]

In places like the firewine ruins, I would usually just send in a fighter type and a thief, the former to kill those endless hordes of goddamn Kobold Commandos at range and the latter to detect traps.

 

Everyone else just sat at the entrance. It made things much less annoying.

[Messier-31]

^ same here

 

Always thought about it as the best solution for those meddling corridors.

[Karkarov]

Well I didn't try to rename Imoen "Blind Three Legged Dog with a Cranial Dysfunction" because her path finding was tolerable.  So yeah, sure would be nice if the characters in this game moved around as if they had feet... and could do basic functions like stepping to the right a couple times as opposed to headbutting a rock for three minutes before they realize that no... you can't walk through rocks.

 

The corridors themselves didn't bother me too much but making them slightly bigger won't hurt even if it is unrealistic.  I mean seriously, when was the last time you were in a hallway in a normal house and it was wider than 5 maybe 6 foot from wall to wall?

[Bartimaeus]

I've...honestly never had that much of a problem with pathfinding in IE games. I'm not sure if that's because I always set the pathfinding computation level to maximum, (which it's not, at least in some of the IE games, by default), or if it's because I semi-consciously account for and work around it.

[Fatback]

When dungeons are designed like That small corridors the combat suffers because of no tactics.

[Fluff]

I've...honestly never had that much of a problem with pathfinding in IE games. I'm not sure if that's because I always set the pathfinding computation level to maximum, (which it's not, at least in some of the IE games, by default), or if it's because I semi-consciously account for and work around it.

 

Yeah, I mean.. is it as good as it could be? No, not at all and it'd be a blatant lie to say so. I've never had many of these nightmare situations people talk about though.

 

The worst I've probably ever had is when selecting the whole group to move to one location once in awhile 1 member will, for whatever reason go off in a completely different direction to somewhere I didn't command.

[Volourn]

"but its from the same guys made in the spirit of the same games."

 

No. Obsidian didn't make the BG games.

 

Also, the pathfinding in those games are fine. There are issues but overall they are so minor that the exaggerations people make is hilarious.

[IndiraLightfoot]

I know I'm in the minority here, but I enjoyed the pathfinding of the IE games. Sure, my characters got a bit stuck here and there, but nothing gamebreaking. I honestly loved how they trickled along, almost like a twitchy fluid across my screen. I even love the sound effects for them walking and advancing. It's one of my most intense memories of the IE games, even if that just sounds utterly bizarre!

[Jarrakul]

Yeah, I'm definitely hoping we don't see a return of tiny corridors (bg1 was a bigger offender than bg2 in that regard, so hopefully the trend continues) and awful pathfinding. for most of us, those are not the parts we remember fondly.

[J.E. Sawyer]

I know its super late to talk about game design now, but this just ircked me so much playing through these games. Dungeon corridors. MY GOSH they are tiny. I would wait another year past this game's release date if they didn't have dungeons like that. 

 

Our dungeon/interior corridors have all been designed with full party navigation in mind.  You won't find anything as narrow as Firewine Bridge in Pillars of Eternity.

[Ffordesoon]

 

 

I know its super late to talk about game design now, but this just ircked me so much playing through these games. Dungeon corridors. MY GOSH they are tiny. I would wait another year past this game's release date if they didn't have dungeons like that.

Our dungeon/interior corridors have all been designed with full party navigation in mind. You won't find anything as narrow as Firewine Bridge in Pillars of Eternity.

Thank you, thank you, thank you!

 

God, those corridors. Irritating in the extreme, especially at unmodded walking speeds.

 

Have you also designed the exteriors for this? Watching a dude take like two real-world minutes to walk around the entire Friendly Arm Inn almost broke me.

[Volourn]

2 minutes? Perhaps that's your computer issue.  They never took more than 5 seconds max. L0L

[Jarrakul]

Off-topic, but I just want to say how awesome it is that the freaking project lead pops onto these forums to answer our questions and concerns on a semi-regular basis. It really feels like we're being respected and listened to, and that's just awesome.

[Ffordesoon]

2 minutes? Perhaps that's your computer issue. They never took more than 5 seconds max. L0L

Yeah, after the walking speeds were modded. I'm talking about the Baldur's Gate games, not the other IE games, which had perfectly fine movement speeds.

[Chippy]

It was a master plan between forgotten realms architects and trap makers to ensure their lightning traps hit you more than once. 

[Bryy]

In places like the firewine ruins, I would usually just send in a fighter type and a thief, the former to kill those endless hordes of goddamn Kobold Commandos at range and the latter to detect traps.

 

Everyone else just sat at the entrance. It made things much less annoying.

Yeah, splitting the party is a tactic that people often look over.

[Jarrakul]

It's true. Coran in particular is the god of the Firewine. The place is still a pain, though.

[Benedictous]

 

Our dungeon/interior corridors have all been designed with full party navigation in mind.  You won't find anything as narrow as Firewine Bridge in Pillars of Eternity.

 

 

WOOT! I can't believe my very first post got a developer response. Thats awesome haha.  I'm glad you guys already took this into account and I am now sure there is nothing to worry about if details as small as this have been looked at!

[Lephys]

I think it'd be interesting to see places (at least in natural corridors) where the passage narrows a good bit, even if the overall passage is generally a bit more party-accommodating. Of course, in man-made corridors, you already have chokepoints in the form of doors and such. But, I think chokepoints/bottlenecks can be nice, because, depending on your foe, they can be a blessing or a curse.

 

However, it's definitely a lot nicer in a game like this to have generally broader passageways, even if realism might beg a higher frequency of narrower (one-by-one or two-by-two) ones.

[Valsuelm]

When dungeons are designed like That small corridors the combat suffers because of no tactics.

 

Uh... no. Tactics were a large part of dungeoneering in BG and BG2, in particular in those smaller areas. I enjoyed Firewine Ruins and the rest. Never once did I think the corridors were too small, and the pathing complaints are very exaggerated. I seriously wonder at the game playing abilities of many of the people making these complaints. 

 

As others have mentioned, if you don't split your party up sometimes, and in particular when you're going through the smaller places, you're doing it wrong. And yes, it bears repeating, you are doing it wrong. While there are options, there are indeed right and wrong ways to go about playing the game. It irks me to think that anything in PoE will be designed around people making such complaints, far better would be to explain in the manual or somehow hint in game that splitting the party is a good idea (or whatever other thing that might not be obvious to an inexperienced player that would be wise to do). A large reason I backed this game was the hopes that noobery would not be catered to, as it was not in the IE titles, with the exception of the aforementioned sped up walking in the IWDs, which was horribad imo. They got the walking speed right with the first BG.

 

Insofar as the pathing, really, turn it all the way up in the settings and click your destination more than once if it's way across the map and the pathing is better than most modern games even (two clicks is almost always sufficient). I'm playing through NWN2 right now and I find the pathing there to be worse than in the IE games, especially inside. Though it's likely that fewer destination control options (ie no formations) and lack of real party order compared to the IE games the are really the issue. (I've said to myself 'no really guys, I said FOLLOW ME!' too many times in NWN2..... it's great when it works, but it's not rare when it doesn't).

 

And to go a little further on splitting your party: For pretty much everywhere, in the IE games and other RPGs with similar party make up I always scout ahead with my rogue, leaving the rest of the party behind, and only bringing who is needed to a fight after I find enemies (how you generally avoid the noobish complaint of zomg my wizard was 1 shot in the IE games; don't put your wizard in harms way noob ). If you're trollopsing through the unexplored wilderness or wherever with your whole party all the time I can only imagine how many times you end up having to reload after stumbling on something that rocks your party's world. If you scout, you can control who enters the fight first, and from what angle.

Edited April 7, 2014 by Valsuelm