Update #74: The Mob Rulers: Wizards and Druids and our Partnership with Paradox

[TarponCrest]

 

But alas. There's no Multi-classing in PoE.

 

Good point, but there is always a way for us gamers... Thinks>>> Have my companions make up for the no multi-classing. Obsidian will come up with something to keep us interested in making different character builds I am sure. They never disappoint.

[Enigmatick]

In the past you have mentioned the wizards familar and how that would play into their spells and abilities could you give us a little bit more about how it works? will you be able to channel any spell through a familar for example.

Yeah I was wondering about the familiar as well it's one of the few things that felt a bit left out of this update, Wizard-wise.

[barbarian_bros]

ENG : For lazy French-speaking people : my french translation ot the Update 74  (Lore/Rules/Gameplay : Full Translation,  News : summarized translation).

 

FR : Pour les francophones qui ne veulent pas lire un update entier en anglais : ma traduction FR de l'update 74.

 

My other French translations/Autres updates en version FR :

Update 16, Update 20, Update 24, Update 36, Update 39, Update 43 (only the Lore about Godlikes), Update 50, Update 52, Update 63.

Edited March 20, 2014 by barbarian_bros

[WorstUsernameEver]

I am concerned that Paradox will just go all "industry standard" on the physical boxed copies and I'll end up with something cheaply made (ie. save every penny possible) and decidedly NOT old-school like Harebrained Schemes did with SR. I wanted and paid a lot of money for a big box, map, thick manual, etc. like many of my vintage games sitting on my shelf right now!! They're outsourcing this to a publisher that probably doesn't care about that aspect of Kickstarter that got people like myself excited about cRPGs again. Granted the game itself is the most important thing here but I could have pledged a lot less for "just the game." I paid a premium for the collector/ nostalgia part and hope Obsidian reminds their new partners of that fact.

Do note that the physical box for Eternity was described like this in the KS:

The boxed copy will include a DVD version of the game and a printed manual.

Basically, they made no promise of an old-school big box.

[Bryy]

In all honesty, I hate nostalgia rewards.

 

There is 100% no reason for it. 

It's such a waste of the environment.

[sesobebo]

 

They have.

 

Many times.

I don't frequent these boards so a few links to those "comments" would be a little more helpful.

 

list of BAdler's posts

i hope it helps.

[teknoman2]

 

Strip away all the press-conference spin and one is left with a single question, which was neither asked nor answered.

 

Ok, we've been assured that Paradox will be handling all the distribution and marketing

 

In the meantime:

1)all game design decisions remain with Obsidian

2)all backer funding remains allotted to the game's development

 

 

So.... what's in it for Paradox? They're certainly not going to be handling all the marketing and distribution for free. All those media guys in the audience and not a single one of them bothered to ask for any meaningful details. Typical.

 

So, we're back to square one: where gamers are stuck having to speculate. *I'm* guessing Paradox is going to get a share of the profits. How big of a percentage though?

 

there are mathematical models used for that sort of thing. they take the projected sales potential, calculate the minimum income that would be generated by the sales, compare it to the expences and come up with a percentage that will cover these expences through the minimum possible sales. for the rest of the sales, they take the same percentage as profit

that's a rough description by someone uninitiated to the magical world of finances

[JFSOCC]

So.... what's in it for Paradox? They're certainly not going to be handling all the marketing and distribution for free. All those media guys in the audience and not a single one of them bothered to ask for any meaningful details. Typical.

 

So, we're back to square one: where gamers are stuck having to speculate. *I'm* guessing Paradox is going to get a share of the profits. How big of a percentage though?

Two companies helping each other stay independent.

[Bavarian]

Can't wait to play my favorite character - a cryptic, old man wizard that looks like a strong wind could blow over... but is seething with magical power and everybody knows it.

 

The art work is turning out great.  Every update I see makes me add to the number of days I'm taking out of the office upon release. 

[Ffordesoon]

 

The wizards sound like they will be great fun as well for multi-classing characters.

It's interesting. That's exactly the vibe I got when I was reading the list. Many of these spells sound like they'd compliment a multi-class Mage-warrior build marvelously. Like Mage's Double, for example. Imagine casting that on yourself then wading in and engaging in melee brawl...But alas. There's no Multi-classing in PoE.Of course, you can still do the above, but you'll be doing it as a pure wizard.

But multi-classing is a solution to overly rigid classes. If the classes aren't so rigid, there's simply no need for it.

[Ineth]

But multi-classing is a solution to overly rigid classes.

 

No, multi/dual-classing is a way for powergamers to find cheesy combinations which the game designers failed to properly take into account when balancing the classes.

 

Ranger/Cleric,  Kensai->Mage,  and  Berserker->Mage  FTW!

[Messier-31]

 

But multi-classing is a solution to overly rigid classes.

 

No, multi/dual-classing is a way for powergamers to find cheesy combinations which the game designers failed to properly take into account when balancing the classes.

 

Ranger/Cleric,  Kensai->Mage,  and  Berserker->Mage  FTW!

 

 

Amen!

 

Now if you'll excuse me, my 2nd level Warrior/Ranger/Cleric/Mage/Squirrel/Carrot/Communist needs some attention.

[Sandro G Meier]

Awesome！！

[Mannock]

 

1. Will we be allowed to cast spells when shifted?

 

 

Listening to Josh in the video, I got the impression that you could sling spells in shifted form. What you could not do in shifted form was using weapons. You had to rely on the claws/hoofs/whatever of the animal you shifted to.

[Cubiq]

Now in the video Sawyer said that they will give the mage several personal buffs so that they can be played as a fighter/mage hybrid.

Now how is this going to work?

Because the reason fighter/mage multiclass worked in IE games was because of pre-buffing and we don't have that in Eternity.

Does that mean that the hybrid mage will basically need to stand there buffing for a while at the start of each combat?

I don't think that's really going to work.

If they can't make it work better than that, i would rather they just scratch that idea and replace those wasted buffing spells with something else.

[Endrosz]

He used the term "melee-oriented wizard character", which is not the same thing as a fighter/wizard. It's a wizard/fighter, so to speak.  F/W relies mostly on weapon damage, augmented by spells. A melee wizard is prepared to stay in close range of opponents, but relies mostly on spells: close range spells (which are always stronger when compared to long range spells of the same level), aura-type spells and personal buffs, augmented by melee weapon bashing when there's nothing better to do. (BTW I love to play melee wizards, played them through NWNs, IWDs, PS:T etc.) It's a higher risk/higher reward playstyle for wizards, and I'm very glad that it's supported. For example, Fire Shield in DnD is a staple spell for a melee wizard, but it's an occasional spell for other wizards, when they need the elemental resistance or expect to get hit a lot in melee.

 

---

 

Diminishing pre-buffing doesn't mean that there are no useful buffs, instead it means that buffs are used in a different fashion, more "on the spot". It has a lot do with the fact that Eternity's spell effects do not depend on character level directly. A simple change like that can cut back on the necessary pre-buffing that was inevitable in DnD games, without any active measure to somehow prohibit pre-buffing.

 

Example: When you get Haste in DnD as a wizard on 5th level, it lasts for 5 rounds. Now imagine that it always lasts 5 rounds, even when your wizard is in the epic levels. Is Haste still useful? Yes, undoubtedly. Is it an overpowered like hell buff that you can safely pre-cast several rounds before combat? Not anymore. You have to find the right opportunity to cast it, which will probably happen mid-combat, meaning that:

a. The activation time is now a cost function, which it wasn't with DnD-style pre-buffing on higher levels.

b. It is interruptible, which brings into play a whole slew of gameplay mechanics, including 2 attributes (For those who don't follow the updates closely: interruption in Eternity only stops the casting, but the ability use is not lost. You can try again immediately.)

 

The key to understanding Eternity buffs is that they try to avoid any "automatic" casts. Or if it's an "automatic" cast, it's most likely turned into a passive/modal ability.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Endrosz

[rjshae]

IN A WORLD WITHOUT FIRE MARSHALS

 

 

Looking at it, I got the sense that this is not an ordinary fireplace. That's not how wood normally burns.

[Lysen]

I don't think this is a fireplace at all.

[cornishr]

 

For those interested, the recording of the announcement of the Paradox partnership on GDC 2014 went online an hour ago:

 

 

It really looks like they have a common vibe that goes beyond a business relationship (if you can look past the general social awkwardness of everyone involved that is ).

Strip away all the press-conference spin and one is left with a single question, which was neither asked nor answered.

 

Ok, we've been assured that Paradox will be handling all the distribution and marketing

 

In the meantime:

1)all game design decisions remain with Obsidian

2)all backer funding remains allotted to the game's development

 

 

So.... what's in it for Paradox? They're certainly not going to be handling all the marketing and distribution for free. All those media guys in the audience and not a single one of them bothered to ask for any meaningful details. Typical.

 

So, we're back to square one: where gamers are stuck having to speculate. *I'm* guessing Paradox is going to get a share of the profits. How big of a percentage though?

 

I always think it's weird the way some people seem to begrudge Obsidian ever making any money. I'll pay whatever the game costs if it's reasonable, and good luck to Obsidian if they manage to make a few bucks at the end of it.

 

I'm over the moon Obsidian are making this game, i hope they make tonnes of money so they can make the next one bigger and better still. If it's even half as good as i hope i'll be delighted. I really couldn't give a monkey's who publishes the game. Of course i'd like a nice booklet and map, but i'd actually rather pay extra so Obsidian can make more and become more successful. I certainly don't want to screw them for every bit of blood i can. I'll spend hours and hours playing this; it'll only cost me the price of a few beers. Bargain. Bloody scrooge, some of you. Besides, i have faith that Obsidian have a measure of integrity about them, and if it is financially possible to release a beauitful map and nice book, i'm sure they will. And if i have to pay a little more, i don't bloody well care, i'll pay.

 

Ps Although there should still be more wilderness levels!!! Let me pay extra for more wilderness you complete bar stewards!

 

Pps Male Aumaua?

Edited March 20, 2014 by cornishr

[Boox]

 

IN A WORLD WITHOUT FIRE MARSHALS

Looking at it, I got the sense that this is not an ordinary fireplace. That's not how wood normally burns.

I think it looks like it could be a rock formation.

Edited March 20, 2014 by Boox

[rjshae]

Now in the video Sawyer said that they will give the mage several personal buffs so that they can be played as a fighter/mage hybrid.

Now how is this going to work?

Because the reason fighter/mage multiclass worked in IE games was because of pre-buffing and we don't have that in Eternity.

Does that mean that the hybrid mage will basically need to stand there buffing for a while at the start of each combat?

I don't think that's really going to work.

If they can't make it work better than that, i would rather they just scratch that idea and replace those wasted buffing spells with something else.

 

I wasn't too concerned about pre-buffing when playing a fighter-mage; for me it was more about combat flexibility--switching from fighter versus grunts to battle mage against a magic-heavy enemy party. They're like a special forces character, if you will, rather than being the heavy infantry. I usually put it on the flanks or, in narrow quarters, had it in reserve using missile weapons.

[Bryy]

Pps Male Aumaua?

 

As said before, pretty sure you can make one in the Adventurer's Hall. Oh, and nice restraint not calling everyone on the forums stupider than dirt this time.

[Rostere]

For those interested, the recording of the announcement of the Paradox partnership on GDC 2014 went online an hour ago:

 

 

It really looks like they have a common vibe that goes beyond a business relationship (if you can look past the general social awkwardness of everyone involved that is ).

 

AAAAAAAAWWWWWWWWW YEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH!

 

This is crazy awesome. Paradox and Obsidian logos both on the same game box will be like a fantastic dream come true.

 

Paradox is pretty much the only publisher I know of which is definitely, 100% guaranteed more niche and "nerdy" than Obsidian is (or has potential to be if they had money to make more of their own PC-only titles...). Hopefully, this will lead to all sort of awesome. If PE is a smash hit (relatively speaking, we must consider the size of the target audience here), then maybe the money from that plus a new Kickstarter, plus a new publishing deal with Paradox will secure additional millions towards more awesome Obsidian RPGs

 

For anyone worried about Paradox and boxes, Paradox was the last game company I know of to stop putting big manuals in their game boxes. My EU3 game came with a manual too big to fit in a DVD case. The HoI2 Anthology also arbitrarily came with a medal in the game case :S Considering boxes, Paradox has a better and more "conservative" history than Obsidian... Although it may be relevant that Obsidian also did not publish their games themselves.

[AW8]

The Celestial Sapling inn looks absolutely beautiful.

[Bryy]

The Celestial Sapling inn looks absolutely beautiful.

Backer, SHOW THYSELF.