In-game achievements, trophies, popups etc

[Lephys]

Now maybe if you'd kill 50 bandits, it's customary to get something like "bandit slayer" achievement.

But if the rumor got around in game, folks would recognize you as bandit slayer, bandits would recognize you, that'd be a whole other thing.

Yeah. It should also be a reasonably... tricky, for lack of a better word, thing to do. If there are 1,000 bandits in the game, then "kill 50 bandits" probably shouldn't be an achievement. In that example, I wouldn't mind something along the lines of "kill 900 bandits," because that would actually be pretty hard to do. Then, some kind of bandit-slayer reputation would make perfect sense (the number doesn't have to be anywhere close to 1,000... the point was just the 900 versus the arbitrary total of 1,000 possible bandit deaths).

 

Plus, this kind of thing kind of automatically leads to mutually exclusive stuff (maybe you HAD to opt to kill some of the bandits with whom you could've negotiated or even joined, in order to reach 900 kills, so you don't get the "Negotiate with 100 people" achievement or something.

 

Basically, the number should be intelligently decided when it comes to counter-based achievements.

[Tagaziel]

New Vegas had a mix of good and bad. Good with in game meaning such like whatever you got after killing a bunch of geckos,

and afterwards you had a slight damage bonus against geckos because you'd had plenty of practice. Things like that.

 

Now maybe if you'd kill 50 bandits, it's customary to get something like "bandit slayer" achievement.

But if the rumor got around in game, folks would recognize you as bandit slayer, bandits would recognize you, that'd be a whole other thing.

 

This would be particularly easy to implement if such reactivity is in the game, as you already have a variable for the achievement to track.

[JFSOCC]

Does a game like this need achievements? I don't think so.

But should you wish to add them, take a page out of Team Fortress's book. With variation in hard to get achievements, easy to get achievements, and grind achievements. And rewards based on the number of them unlocked, not specific ones.

[Dwarfare]

In some games, I do enjoy achievements, but not when they're totally meaningless.  "Hey, you made it to the next act of the story!" is not all that worthy of any form of praise.  Finishing the game?  Sure, I'd take an achievement for that.  Completing all possible character arcs for a companion?  Sure.  Completing particularly difficult puzzles or story pieces, designed in such a way that they actually require thought and legitimate skill to beat?  Yeah, I'd be down for some kind of minor achievement for that sort of thing.

 

However, I really don't much care about achievements in RPGs, and them popping up would be an immersion-breaking annoyance.  They would be, however, useful for tracking completion of certain bits, like the companion arcs that you could choose from.  That sort of thing can be a bit difficult to track when you're doing multiple playthroughs, and an achievement system could be helpful for completionists to have a catalog of what they've done and what they haven't.

 

What I'd say is "Achievements?  Absolutely!  However, let there be a toggle to avoid having them pop up for players who don't care for that sort of thing, or just want them out of the way until they are looking for them"

[Amentep]

I really don't care one way or the other; but I don't find achievements motivate me to play any differently than I feel like playing.

 

I've never played a game trying to get all of the achievements; if I like a game I'll replay it a whole lot but not so that I can find the path that only opens once a game that takes you to the secret area where you fight the secret boss to save the secret love interest who hates you and stabs you in the face and all you got was this lousy in-game T-shirt achievement.

 

Or something.

[Jaesun]

Achievements: KILL IT WITH FIRE!

[chifanpoe]

Other than to brag to your gaming friends I don't really see the point of them.

[Sensuki]

Achievements: KILL IT WITH FIRE!

[Bonecrusher]

I love achievements, they can be funny in humorous games like Portal 2, and a "targeting point for players" in some multiplayer FPS games.

But a story driven game like Project Eternity, must not have an achivement system.

I hate achivements in games like Journey or Bastion, so we should stay away in this game too.

 

I don't want to see achievement in Steam version too.

I don't want people playing this game just to complete achievement.

It is really silly to see "kill 15 orcs, collect 25 golds" and similar things in a game like Project eternity. And neither players should play this game for achieve "sell 100 items" pop-ups.

 

So my answer is, "kill it with fire".

Edited March 24, 2013 by Bonecrusher

[Karranthain]

I feel that the achievements are a waste of time, I'd rather see the team using their precious time for implementing something more substantial.

 

The only type of achievements I wouldn't mind would be the ones tied exclusively to your character, e.g.

 

Kill 1000 Orcs - gain a 5% bonus to damage against them (due to your superior knowledge of their weaknesses).

 

These shouldn't be carried over playthroughs, however.

Edited March 24, 2013 by Karranthain

[Osvir]

I'm swinging bothways, because I believe Achievements can be fun if tied to gameplay. But I also think the "fun" achievements are fun too. The pop-ups that doesn't really do anything but congratulate the Player for achieving some sort of challenge. They do tend to get abundant in numbers though, and after a while they are just "noise" on the screen.

Yay! I love achievements! = If they do something physical to the game. Such as "You took down 100 Goblins! You now take down Goblins easier! Congratulations to your +1 Damage!" or something. Technical Skill. Lore-bits. "Ah I see you are a Goblin Slayer good sir!" in dialogue.

Nay! I hate achievements = "Congratulations!" in one of the Spiderman games, for a bad example, my friend finished the game 100% and the only thing he got was a "Congratulations!" pop-up. The same thing goes for some sort of Weapon you can get in Assassin's Creed 2 by collecting 100/100 Feathers, I am not even bothering because I don't think that's enough of a reward, there is a personal reward of course. My friend, again, said that by collecting 100/100 Feathers his OCD calmed down and he isn't as OCD as he used to be for instance.

Achievement should be some sort of reward for "Hard work". Either by a pop-up or providing a gameplay modifying element in my opinion. The 100% Completionist: "What did you learn?" type of achievement I guess. Obsidian can't answer that.

Aah, I don't know.

Achievements such as "You finished Chapter 1 as designed/intended! Congratulations you are playing the game!!!" feels kind of stupid as well, though I'm sure it makes the Player feel better about himself, and probably feels better about the company that made the game, and continues playing the game and endorse the company for it. Subconcious stuff.

This makes me curious... what does the Developer feel about Achievements? What is it the Developer is trying to say to the Player with Achievements?

Edited March 24, 2013 by Osvir

[nikolokolus]

If it's a silly shooter or action game like Diablo, TF2 or Left for Dead, especially in a competitive or co-op environment then I don't have a problem with getting little virtual participation ribbons, because the fun of those games isn't the story, it's the competition itself.

 

But achievements in a RPG always serve to take me out of the game and put me in some meta-game state.  

 

Just make the game reactive enough and interesting enough that there are multiple ways of overcoming most objectives and we'll get to read about all of the clever things people did on the forum and that will be enough of an "achievement" for me.

Edited March 24, 2013 by nikolokolus

[Lephys]

"Kill It With Fire" -- Earned by deactivating achievements in the Options Menu during the prologue of the game.

 

[teknoman2]

NO!

NO!

NO NO NO!

HELL NO!

.

JUST NO!

.

.

.

NO!!!

[Raithe]

Random achievements and pop-ups, not a great thing in a story driven game. Especially the silly ones "Congratulations, you've followed the storyline!" "Congratulations, you actually picked up your first piece of equipment!"....

 

Actual achievements that have an in-game reactivity, those can be good.  The aforementioned Bandit Slayer which provides some form of reputation effect / dialogue otpions because you become known as some heroic battler of bandits.

 

Either way, I'd avoid the pop-up aspect of them. Keep them hidden from players until they get earnt. Then it becomes something folks talk about, and/or just replay in different ways to see how it changes and what can be done.

[Sensuki]

From the XP FOR KILLS discussion threads, Obsidian have stated they are leaning toward Quest Experience for Objectives / Quest Milestones.

 

Therefore, you essentially 'achieve' something, every time you complete a quest milestone.

 

The presentation of the Quest objectives and completion could end up looking very 'achievement based' if they wanted it to....

 

However I would prefer to have all objectives hidden so that you have to uncover them in the game yourself, rather than looking at the quest objective page and seeing 20 different possible objectives from the get go.

 

Could be tied to Difficulty and Expert Mode. Since I will definitely be playing Expert Mode only, as long as there's no hand holding whatsoever in that, I couldn't care about the normal setting.

 

BG style with a better journal system would suit me fine.

[Aqaba]

I don't know if what I'm thinking is a trophy in the way of modern games, but i would like to have some trophies in my stronghold. I mean, after  I cutted off the head of a 1000 yars old dragon I normally hang it on my fireplace. So I relly would like to make my place with the souvenirs of my journy

[poetic obsidian]

^That kind of trophy would  actually make sense within the context of Project Eternity. Something that you can hang over your fireplace in your stronghold is good.

 

This is not how modern games handle trophies though. Trophies are usually either: 

 

-- trinkets (aka junk) that you collect

 

or

 

-- a rating ( e.g. Bronze trophy for killing 1000 bandits. Silver trophy for 2000).

[Bhazor]

I can understand the appeal of achievements and they can work well in getting you to play a game differently than you normally would. I can also admit that it would be cool if I had real proof of my pacifist run in Thief 1. But the problem with achievements is the disconnect from the gameplay, it feels too meta. So what about an actual in game effect such as having unique loot for accomplishing deeds? You can still boast and "'chiev hunt" but it has an actual in gameplay presence.

 

I'm thinking something like the quest perks in the Fallout games. They don't have any real effect but they're still a lasting testament to what you've done.

 

I'm certainly not a fan of pop ups in games. Though thankfully those can be turned off on Steam.

 

edit: also what Aqaba said about literal trophies.

Edited March 30, 2013 by Bhazor

[necromate]

I do not need an "achi" for killing the dragon (like in Dragon Age origins), killing the dragon IS the achievement!
And if the game world recognises me for killing it, all the better... like when you reach high levels of a skill in Oblivion, people will start to know you by reputation, these small rewards are far more fun/sensible/satisfying than a useless pop-up.

more examples:
-if you kill the local bandit leader and his gang... then after a while, when you are ambushed by bandits and they recognize that "s**t, it's the bandit slayer", instead of attacking they attempt to flee in terror...
-when guards look the other way, because you saved their king...
-when all the women in the local bordello wants the dragon slayer in their bed...

-when the priest at the temple spit at you for desecrating a shrine with your filthy demonic presence

these small influences on the game world are the real achievements... though there should be a list of them, that can only be unlocked AFTER finishing the game, so you can check what content/fun things have you missed for the first run

[DaWu]

achievements? no please no! I hate it when I play a game on steam and suddenly some dumb popup appears telling me I achieved some special goal. that kills the Immersion. achievements is somenthing for consoles. leave us pc players alone!

[Tiwaz]

I don't know if what I'm thinking is a trophy in the way of modern games, but i would like to have some trophies in my stronghold. I mean, after  I cutted off the head of a 1000 yars old dragon I normally hang it on my fireplace. So I relly would like to make my place with the souvenirs of my journy

Definitely what I want to see achievements as.

I want the broken axe of my foe over my door to remind me how I did that.

Or perhaps painting of a person dear to me on the wall etc.

 

Basically stuff which makes stronghold living thing, showing where you have been what you have done...

Just like we do with our homes. If we win some kind of competition, do we not display trophy in our house?

Do we not put pictures of family to show?

Well, broken axes and dented helmets of slain foes are less common, but generally such stuff has traditionally been displayed as well (such as capturing and keeping aquila of a legion, enemies often kept these as trophis so on occasion they were regained).

[Karkarov]

There will be achievements in the steam version because I am pretty sure that is a requirement of steam.  I am going to be playing it through a DRM free GoG option though so my move is pretty obvious.  Heck even when I do play on steam I would turn achievements off... if it didn't also disable screenshots.

[Agremont]

I've honestly never understood the appeal of achievements. I hate it when there's an immersion breaking pop up telling me I used my first healing potion (or whatever pointless achievements there is).

 

Edit: There's been a few good ideas in this thread though. So if achievements are in, I hope they're invisible.

Edited April 11, 2013 by Agremont

[Calmar]

Therw were great achievements in Baldur's Gate II, like the red dragon armour, great NPCs, or the player stronghold, and Icewind Dale has great rewards like the weapon made from Gloomfrost ice, or the sword Cera Sumat. That's the kind of achievement I wish to see in Project Eternity.