Finishing moves

[Cultist]

Finishing moves are known from various games. Skyrim, Dragon Age etc. they add flavor and athmosphere to the game and make battles more entertaining.

But with them comes one problem - should time stop during execution or battle should go normally.

Because player may be invulnerable during animation to prevent situations when finishing move will result in main hero slaughered by nearby enemies during his finishing animation.

Then, hero can use finihing move on the last opponent alive, killing others normally.

[Felithvian]

I don't remember correctly, could enemies harm you while performing a final finishing move in Warhammer 40000 Dawn of War I/II?

 

Battle should proceed as normal, giving enemies the possibility to damage/kill you during a finishing move.

[Atreides]

I could imagine slowing down a little for drama when a high ranking enemy goes down. Not sure if extra animation's required.

[Utukka]

If you can control when an "execution" occurs then sure....otherwise, leave it for the last monster on the screen. I personally don't like watching animations that make no sense to take place/make the guy momentary invulnerable. Looking at you Assassins Creed.

[GhoulishVisage]

I think that spectacular finishing moves (if there are any) should be reserved for boss encounters and the last remaining opponent in packs of enemies.

If finishing moves do play for regular monsters in the middle of battles it should only play on seldom occasions and shouldn't last long enough to become a detriment. A second or two at most.

 

I immensely disliked the finishing moves in Skyrim and Deus Ex: Human Revolution. They were shoddy (in Skyrim's case at least) and broke immersion.

However, I can see them working well in a game like Project Eternity due to the camera angle and the fact that you control a party of adventurers rather than a single character.

 

Anyhow, as I said, if they do play in the middle of battles they shouldn't last so long that the rest of your party are left stranded.

[Cultist]

I don't remember correctly, could enemies harm you while performing a final finishing move in Warhammer 40000 Dawn of War I/II?

 

Battle should proceed as normal, giving enemies the possibility to damage/kill you during a finishing move.

Ah, DoW, yes, players cried when Big Mek gone on his animation spree. Immune to damage and almost every kill with finishing animation. Issue was so serious that developers changed chance of sync0kill dramatically. Every ork player exploited it horribly.

Dragon Age had opposite problem, when your char gone on sync-kill or was affected by some deliberating ability - like dog chewin on you or spider pounced on you - you still took damgae from every source.

[.Leif.]

Given PE is an Isometric game I don't take issue with the idea that some important killings have different animations than other attacks. I don't want a GTA/Deus:Ex style execution camera though. Those get really old fast.

[Cultist]

Dawn of War and DA: origins were both isometric, yet suffered from sync-kill mechanic problems.

[AGX-17]

When you say "finishing moves" all I can think of is over-the-top japanese games and cartoons where the character rushes forward screaming something like "HISSATSU!" and attacks, then it cuts to a shot of the character looking at the camera with the enemy motionless behind them, then they say the name of the attack and calligraphic kanji of the attack name appear on screen before the enemy explodes/gets sliced in half/their head comes off/etc.

 

Usually the blood geyser or explosion happens right as the attacker sheathes their weapon.

[wanderon]

I could live without finishing moves at all - I only find them mildly entertaining the first time they occur and generally immersion breaking after that. I'm thinking there are probably other things the team could do with the time and resources they will require that may make for a better game.

[Ieo]

http://forums.obsidian.net/topic/60674-finishing-moves/

 

No finishing moves at all, please.

[Bartimaeus]

I wouldn't mind very, very basic finishing moves, (a slightly different attack), but beyond that, no thanks.

[Jarmo]

A poll here.

 

I would like some variation, some visual cue when you roll a critical and waste the guy in one brilliant stroke.

 

But nothing spectacular, no cutscenes.

And I hate it when you pommel a guy 50 times and on the final killing stroke your sword goes all the way through or splits him in two.

Why couldn't you just hit like that on the first strike and save me some time...

[Osvir]

My thoughts from the Combat Animations thread.

 

Could it be possible to sync it somehow?

 

The problem with finishing moves (imo) is that they are much more fancy than the overall combat and it kind of takes away one of your characters for a period of time (pack of Darkspawn+an Ogre or two? Expect to have 1 character less when the Ogre goes down). If there was some way to combine the overall battle animations with the finishing move that would be sweet! Would it be resourceful as a development? Dunno.

 

I would prefer no finishing moves+IE style combat (slow motion time phase when enemy gets struck by critical hit and becoming pieces of meat? Sure) or finishing moves+combined combat animations.

 

Mechnically:

Stamina could be "Taking Action" (blocking, parrying, dodging, casting, attacking)

Health could be "Taking Damage" (stabbed, hit, damage, chopped, basically shedding blood)

 

Dice roll example:

Stamina = Shield basically.

 

1st Roll (You): Clash, enemy blocks with a shield.

2nd Roll (Enemy): Clash, you block with a shield.

3rd Roll (You): Attack! You broke through the defenses.

4th Roll (You/Enemy): How much damage do you do? How good was the attack? Does the enemy mitigate some damage?

 

^Does that even have to be visual? Could it be IE styled somehow, where the dice rolls are more narrated and/or representative to something similar as above? (Visually the enemy and player go "Chop chop" at each other, but in the Log it says "You blocked!")

Edited December 30, 2012 by Osvir

[ogrezilla]

I'd be happy with very simple and completely integrated finishing moves just as different animations within combat. Maybe give crits (or just crits that kill the enemy) to give a different animation. Nothing that changes the flow of the game though. No zooming or time warping. Its really not necessary. But I wouldn't be against it.

[Faerunner]

I have to agree with many posters here that I would like finishing moves if they really are saved for the last monster in the group, reserved for bosses, prevent the slayer from getting killed mid-stab (this was a problem in DA:O), and/or better streamlined or simplified so they don't stand out too much. Though I love finishing moves from DA:O, I think they can be improved for future games. (Take the good, fix the bad. =)

 

Also, while I can't speak for Skyrim, I noticed that Dragon Age: Origins finishing moves only occur for melee fighters. If you're a mage or an archer, you never get the the slow, dramatic finishing move or the fancy, creative killing animation. If Project Eternity does include finishing moves of some kind (though it's entirely their choice), I would love for them to be available for every class; or at least every basic fighting style. (That last dramatic slash/stab for melee, that final arrow drawn slowly and released dramatically a la Merida from Brave, or that final blast of magical energy raining down by a spellcaster.) I think every class deserves a chance to do something that looks and feels amazing. ^_^

[Jarmo]

Also, while I can't speak for Skyrim, I noticed that Dragon Age: Origins finishing moves only occur for melee fighters. If you're a mage or an archer, you never get the the slow, dramatic finishing move or the fancy, creative killing animation.

 

What really bothered me in DA:O, is you did get those cinematic ones even with mage.

Fireball that ogre a few times, then a bit of lightning to finish him off.... and then you see yourself running with a dagger going all stabbity stab on his face! The what the what the hellington now was that.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Jarmo

[BaronVonChateau]

Finishing moves are pure fluff and doesn't add anything to the game except for some "WOWTHAT'SOBEAUTIFULLYBRUTALI'MCRYING" effect. Even if I liked very much the special death animations of Fallout 1&2, I could go without. From my point of view, good sound design can easily provide the satisfying feeling of brutality that goes with a critical hit/kill.

[Kaldurenik]

Was there not a topic about this?

[Juneau]

When you kill someone - Its a finishing move - You are after all finishing them off. Maybe if time slowed slightly for every kill that was because of a certain type.

 

Crit / Instadeath etc..

 

You don't need new fancy animations, the same animations would work, just slow time a little to show that you are landing a kill? Or apply it to the last standing enemy - as always you can turn it off in options.

[Valsuelm]

A resounding No! to 'finishing moves'. They add nothing substantial to a game such as what PE will be, and are fundamentally unrealistic eye candy and a waste of a hotkey,

 

If we were talking about a console fighting game such as Mortal Combat sure, maybe let's have em. We're not. Critical hits are the way to go. A variety of death animations would be nice, as would maybe critically hit monsters being 'chunked' ala the Infinity games. Having special abilities only to be used to 'finish off' a target is not. Not only is it a waste of a keybind, but it really wouldn't feel right in a game such as this. There are reasons some of us don't hold Dragon Age in as high regard as we do the IE games (the story was good the way the gameplay had issues), and serious yuck to Skyrim all around, 'Finishing moves' while not the major reason is a part of it. I'd take unaltered IE combat over DA:O or especially Skyrim combat any day.

Edited January 4, 2013 by Valsuelm

[TRX850]

Critical hits are the way to go. A variety of death animations would be nice, as would maybe critically hit monsters being 'chunked' ala the Infinity games.

 

I agree with this.

 

My gut feeling about finishing moves is that they're up there with "planking" and those reality TV shows you love to hate.

 

They're fine in console fighting games that use modern uber-styling as their selling point.

 

P:E should do all it can to remain timeless, like the IE games.

[Tamerlane]

Urgh. I really hated the finishing animations in DAO and Skyrim. Like, it was cool the very first time I did it to the ogre, but every single instance afterwards was just a test of patience.

 

Also, I impaled a dragon on my ****ing hammer. What the hell, man?

[Tsuga C]

Thanks, but not thanks, to finishing moves. They're generally chocked full of preposterousness designed to appeal to the kiddywinks. Leaping 6' in the air while wearing full plate to deliver a killing blow to an ogre? *eyeroll* Leave that sort of silliness for the Saturday morning cartoons, please.

[JOG]

 

Enough fatalities? Good then let's again concentrate on story.