Awesome Interview with Avellone

[morhilane]

Obsidian! Star Wars IP have just been bought by Disney, go pitch some KoTOR stuff to them!

 

Oh and Ghost in the Shell pretty please... or any cyberpunk themed RPG. I'll buy this without thinking about it. Same for Firefly.

[Jasede]

I always thought Obsidian should make a jRPG again; they already made Torment after all.

[SinoSamba]

A good romance would have to have the entire game be written around it. That's not the kind of RPG I am looking but I can 100% tell you that if something like that were to be in the game it will sorely disappoint all those who may be asking for a Bioware romance that only serves to gratify the player rather than tell a story.

 

I'm not sure if the entire game would have to be written around it; it would have to be fairly well integrated in the game just simply for time to devlopment, to fit the game and the NPC involved. So the idea that you can easily drop-in romance to hit an easy "win" for the fanbase doesn't really work most of the times in terms of the game and NPCs, IMO.

 

That said, part of me can't help but wonder if Avellone wrote his reply just because he knew it'd add about 500,000 pages to existing romance debate...now that's just mean

 

I firmly believe that's actually the case. And it worked....

[-Zin-]

Jasede said:

 

You don't understand what I am trying to convey.

 

A romance that is well written is part of a theme, of a character's entire arc. The character can't be the same if he didn't have that romance option, else the romance is simply a shallow addition. You cannot add a romance to a character without altering the entire character. Avellone, much like me, looks for themes, for ideas, for arcs and stories. Romance isn't added because people ask for it or because it's something people ask for - it's only there if it makes sense for the theme, character

 

 

I see your point now, and what you said works somewhat fine if we're talking about a game like Final Fantasy, where the story is mostly set in stone.

 

However, let's say an NPC is written to be a love interest in an RPG with a lot of open choices. In this case, romance should be optional to enforce the theme of having many choices. Also, there is no guarantee that everyone will like that character. That's why all romances have been handled quite similar to each other in RPGs heavy with dialouge options.

 

No one is forcing you to bring out the romantic side of the NPC. In most western RPGs so far, you're the one picking your favorite romancable NPC. Also, you usually have to choose lot of key dialouge options over a longer period of time. It's entirely up to you if you want to encourage it. I've never seen a game that punishes the player for declining the NPC's advances. And yes, you will miss out on some good writing by not exploring the romance options, but if you don't like that sort of thing there is no problem here. You're getting what you want by walking away. I'm sure someone here is just wasting time inventing a problem where there isn't one.

 

For example; I didn't romance any of the girls from Mass Effect 1 because I didn't find them compelling. Ashley was too realistic, boring, and racist. Liara had the personality of a plank. I thought: "No way am I gonna be tied to these two for two more games. I'll pass." I ignored them, and I didn't consider it a loss. I got exactly what I wanted. Refusing their romance made me happier as I didn't like getting romantic attention from them. Quite similarly, I didn't romance Leiliana or Morrigan from Dragon Age Origins either. Even at the end, my Warden prefered dying rather than boinking Morrigan for some unholy ritual. Now, Morrigan and Leiliana were his friends. He liked them, but they were both very insane. However, in one run of DA:O though, my Warden 'romanced' the Queen. I didn't want my Warden to cheat on his future-wife and also I wanted my Warden to live this time, so I had my Warden wing-man Alistair into boinking Morrigan so they would both live. It was priceless seeing Alistair's reaction before shoving him into the bed-room with that crazy lady. :D

 

In Mass Effect 2 though, my Shepard did end up filling some of the women with his tooth-paste of love. I liked the cheesy, more over-the-top characters, and I thought: "You know, I'm actually having fun around these characters. I definetly would like to see them again in the third game." At the same time though, I knew real life friends who didn't boink anyone in the second game. A female friend of mine didn't want her Shepard to cheat on Kaidan from ME1. She made a choice, and actually passed on encouraging the romantic interest from certain NPCs because it clashed with how she role played her Shepard. But for people that disliked Kaidan, it was great that there were more NPCs to choose between.

 

So you see, by having the romances be optional, the more choices the player gets, which is what players of western RPGs want. Choices. There's something for everyone, and it increases marketing range and replayability. Now the quality of the NPCs will be top notch because Obsidian has great writers, and if Obsidian is smart, which they are, they will let players have the abillity to explore their favorite NPCs as much as possible.

Edited November 1, 2012 by -Zin-

[Gibbscape_Torment]

I always thought Obsidian should make a jRPG again; they already made Torment after all.

 

This makes absolutely no sense. Could you explain to me why you think Torment resembles a JRPG in any way? Even if the post was made in jest, there usually has to be some element of truth to the statement made.

[Archmage Silver]

I think MCA might be the original Internet Troll.

 

I'd rather post praise of Dragon Age 2 on the RPG Codex forums than piss off MCA. He's scary.

 

 

 

[FlintlockJazz]

Definitely not man. Perhaps we can be friends for free for a while and then when we've got something worth talking about we can pitch the video and see how we go then?

 

I'm upset that he didn't even bother to ask me to quote him a price for my friendship, just ignored me and went straight to you! My rates are not that bad..

 

Sorry I can't get any publishing companies to endorse me in this, I'll need to start a Kickstarter.

 

Fair point, I am a high risk investment. Reckon you've got enough fans to reach any of the stretch goals?

 

Friends for free? What kind of crazy hippy idea is that?? Damn fricking hippies...

[Huinehtar]

The last romance I did appreciate in a cRPG was the one involving Fall-from-Grace, because of the background of this character (very deep, and also sad), some dialogues with Nordom (even if the best funny situations were those involving Morte and Nordom), and some kind of greek tragedy in her.

 

But after then, through modern games, romances are just... romances for what they are. I was a bit pessimist concerning them. But yes, I found that in Alpha Protocol, it was a bit funny (seems to be a joke on James Bond's movies).

 

So, well... I must admit that if romances are totally optional, and well written, why not.

 

and if Obsidian is smart, which they are, they will let players have the abillity to explore their favorite NPCs as much as possible.

 

*Cough* ... *Cough* ... (Sorry I thought about something else )

[Jaesun]

I always thought Obsidian should make a jRPG again; they already made Torment after all.

 

This makes absolutely no sense. Could you explain to me why you think Torment resembles a JRPG in any way? Even if the post was made in jest, there usually has to be some element of truth to the statement made.

 

Read page 37 in your torment manual, and specifically read the Thanks To section. You might want to sit down first before you do.

[Aldereth]

Let's not turn this into a romance thread, k?

 

Too late, over 50% of the post is about what MCA said about romance in the interview

 

And "promancer", relax, just base on the amount of pages that was written, it will be in for sure. Beside whether you are promance or nomance, all the doom romance, lover's betrayal, hatemance MCA had done in previous game are quite entertaining and sometimes endearing and dare I say romantic

 

 

I particular like his take on using speech as tool and I would personally like to see he develop this idea further.

Edited November 1, 2012 by Aldereth

[Nidrolok]

I see your point now

No you don't, you really don't.

[C2B]

I always thought Obsidian should make a jRPG again; they already made Torment after all.

 

This makes absolutely no sense. Could you explain to me why you think Torment resembles a JRPG in any way? Even if the post was made in jest, there usually has to be some element of truth to the statement made.

 

Uhm, actually. JRPG's were a major insperation for Avellone in creating Torment. The big, expansive *spell summons* for example were FFVII inspired.

 

There's a lot of other (less obvious) things as well.

Edited November 1, 2012 by C2B

[Brannart]

Uhm, actually. JRPG's were a major insperation for Avellone in creating Torment. The big, expansive *spell summons* for example were FFVII inspired.

 

There's a lot of other (less obvious) things as well.

 

Wow. Finally something that makes JRPGs seem at least sorta cool.

[Volourn]

":This makes absolutely no sense. Could you explain to me why you think Torment resembles a JRPG in any way? Even if the post was made in jest, there usually has to be some element of truth to the statement made"

 

Because PST does have some very big similarities to CRPGs. And, it was intentional. It makes perfect sense.

[AW8]

If Avellone gets his hand on the Star Wars license to write another game (be it KotOR III or set anywhere else in the timeline), I'd die a happy man.

 

 

Also, I had a bisexual threesome with Isabela and Zevran, just because.

 

[Gibbscape_Torment]

I always thought Obsidian should make a jRPG again; they already made Torment after all.

 

This makes absolutely no sense. Could you explain to me why you think Torment resembles a JRPG in any way? Even if the post was made in jest, there usually has to be some element of truth to the statement made.

 

Read page 37 in your torment manual, and specifically read the Thanks To section. You might want to sit down first before you do.

 

Okay, well now i can see where the joke comes from. Still, the similarities are very minor, regardless of inspiration. Avellone took inspiration from comics for PST aswell, but that doesn't make it more similar to comics than any other cRPG.

[C2B]

Okay, well now i can see where the joke comes from. Still, the similarities are very minor, regardless of inspiration. Avellone took inspiration from comics for PST aswell, but that doesn't make it more similar to comics than any other cRPG.

 

As mentioned the spells aren't minor. There's lots of other things that are jrpg influenced. Of course, saying it's a *jrpg* is a joke, but it's a valid one.

 

Avellone wasn't even the only one. As for other wrpgs that were strongly (even more actually) influenced from them is Anarchranox and Septerra Core. (All great games)

 

 

 

Why do you even care? Does that somehow diminish Planescape's quality? I know jrpg's have a really bad reputation nowadays, but Chrono Trigger or Final Fantasy VI are on lots of developers list of games that influenced them greatly. (And for good reason)

Edited November 2, 2012 by C2B

[Volourn]

"Okay, well now i can see where the joke comes from. Still, the similarities are very minor, regardless of inspiration"

 

MINOR? MINOR? MINOR?

 

The whole of PST, in spite of its DnD roots, is LARGELY inspired by JRPG. And, MCA clearly wanted it to be.

 

Let's look at how PST was 'minorly' inspired by JRPGs - the spells, weapons/armour locked into specifc characters, the story being largely connected to the protagnist instead of being simply an epic fantasy story like most rpgs, the music, etc., etc. MINOR/ MINOR? MINOR? What PST did you play? What JRPGs did you play? But, the inspiration is NOt mkinor,. not by a long shot.

 

Only reason why you are insulted by it is ebcause youa re abigot who hates JRPGs but PST is very much a mini JRPG. Not a full one since it is obviously influenced by WRPGs as well.

 

MCA > U

[Tigranes]

MINOR? MINOR? MINOR?

 

It's like a .gif I can't get out of my head.

 

I didn't mind the JRPG influences, I did wish the spells wouldn't take so bloody long. Same complaint I had for FF.

[Tamerlane]

the story being largely connected to the protagnist instead of being simply an epic fantasy story like most rpgs

I'm... not sure how that is a staple of JRPGs. For every time you get something like Breath of Fire's "let's discover the secret history of your species," there's a thousand "let's kill the world-conquering/destroying alien/god".

 

Also not sure what you meant by the music being JRPG-ish, but****whatever.

[Gibbscape_Torment]

"Okay, well now i can see where the joke comes from. Still, the similarities are very minor, regardless of inspiration"

 

MINOR? MINOR? MINOR?

 

The whole of PST, in spite of its DnD roots, is LARGELY inspired by JRPG. And, MCA clearly wanted it to be.

 

Let's look at how PST was 'minorly' inspired by JRPGs - the spells, weapons/armour locked into specifc characters, the story being largely connected to the protagnist instead of being simply an epic fantasy story like most rpgs, the music, etc., etc. MINOR/ MINOR? MINOR? What PST did you play? What JRPGs did you play? But, the inspiration is NOt mkinor,. not by a long shot.

 

Only reason why you are insulted by it is ebcause youa re abigot who hates JRPGs but PST is very much a mini JRPG. Not a full one since it is obviously influenced by WRPGs as well.

 

MCA > U

 

Yes, minor minor minor. Those aspects are what i consider to be ridiculously minor.

 

And FYI, just because a game is more personal and less "SLAY THE BAD DRAGON FOR AZUTOPIA!" in no way makes it JRPG influenced. Lol.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Gibbscape_Torment

[Volourn]

So, people are calling MCA a liar then? It's quite clear that PST is influenced by JRPGs and the influence was fully intentional.

Edited November 2, 2012 by Volourn

[Amentep]

the story being largely connected to the protagnist instead of being simply an epic fantasy story like most rpgs

I'm... not sure how that is a staple of JRPGs. For every time you get something like Breath of Fire's "let's discover the secret history of your species," there's a thousand "let's kill the world-conquering/destroying alien/god".

 

Also not sure what you meant by the music being JRPG-ish, but****whatever.

 

I think he means that you have a fixed protagonist and the story you unfold is his. Largely you're on rails through the story with the only difference being in how far you can delve into your history (not unlike jRPGs which have best-better-good-bad-worse endings depending on whether you do certain things at certain points in the game).

[teknoman2]

Sounds like there will be a fair number of opportunities to negotiate your way around conflict or as he says in the interview itself "Chunks of them" as well. I still had my fingers crossed for a full pacifist option but I knew deep down it would never happen. Still pleased with what was said though.

well full pacifist is impossible. you have to consider that there will be mindless creatures like wild animals that you cant convince to back away without a fight and if you find yourself in the middle of a battle between 2 factions and you support one of them, the other will just attack you

[Few]

Sounds like there will be a fair number of opportunities to negotiate your way around conflict or as he says in the interview itself "Chunks of them" as well. I still had my fingers crossed for a full pacifist option but I knew deep down it would never happen. Still pleased with what was said though.

well full pacifist is impossible. you have to consider that there will be mindless creatures like wild animals that you cant convince to back away without a fight and if you find yourself in the middle of a battle between 2 factions and you support one of them, the other will just attack you

 

Well there was charm beast in arcanum for wild animals.

 

I know it was never likely to be an option but it would be possible to do if the developers wanted to. Just because a fight is going on between 2 factions doesn't mean you have to wade in and get involved, maybe you just run away, or calmly walk away. Then you deal with the consequences later. Obviously this would create a lot of branches as to what happens next and would take a long time to make I'm sure.