Will the game end when the main quest line ends?

[CrazyPea]

... or will you be able to contine to explore? I loves to go back to unfinished quests and look for the bits that I missed. Will that be possible in P:E? Or will I have to start a fresh game once the main quest line is complete?

 

Does anyone else think you should be able to explore the world once the main quest line is finished?

Edited October 19, 2012 by CrazyPea

[HangedMan]

I'd like to have an 'after' game. Freely roaming and doing as I wish.

[rjshae]

It depends. If I'd hit the level limit (as seems likely), I'd probably be more tempted to do a replay with a new character and a different set of companions.

[Mr. Magniloquent]

In games where a strong narrative is present, this is typically not possible. Given the stated goals of P:E and the talent behind it, I imagine any and all exploration will be intended to be completed prior to culmination of the plot.

 

I imagine a game becomes significantly harder to balance when a player is permitted to journey around it once the main plot ends, and it would restrict the types of conclusions that could be reached. Post-completation exploration would be nice, but I would only want it implemented as an after thought. Create the best game with the most engrossing story first, then decide if there is anything to be gained by being able to continue beyond that point.

[Ieo]

Like in BG1, BG2, PS:T (dunno about IWD), the game should end. These are narrative-based games, not open-world exploration like Skyrim, so the epilogues and such would create closure; otherwise continued adventure with companions after that would make no sense. There's another thread on the General forum about this too. An expansion would be different but still self-contained.

[oldmanpaco]

Like Ieo says this appears to be a story/plot driven game. Like the IE games it should end when the main plot ends.

[Hassat Hunter]

Well, I would have agreed that the plot ended, but some people suggested only being able to enter the final few levels of the dungeon after the main plot... and I don't mind that. Could also add a bridge between original game and expansion... ("In the final level something happened, your party trapped, and unable to flee. See what's going on in the official expansion")

[LadyCrimson]

Don't really care too much myself. Depends somewhat on the narrative and way the game is set up, like mentioned. But overall don't mind if it's included. If it's not, I'll often re-load save games just to quickly check stuff out if I want....then start a new game.

[PsychoBlonde]

Does anyone else think you should be able to explore the world once the main quest line is finished?

 

Depends on the nature of the main quest line. If the end of the quest involves you ascending to godhood or radically changing the world in some way, it'd make no sense whatsoever for you to be able to still wander around. If it involves, more, you killing Sarevok or finally getting your soul back, eh, why not. You're not radically different than you were prior to the End.

 

I don't particularly like the way it works in most of the Elder Scrolls games, however, where they assign some huge sweeping significance to the Main Plot, yet after it's done you can go join the thieves guild as a low-level grunt. I think this is more a problem with how *disintegrated* the ES games are--the various big quest lines have NOTHING to do with each other and none of them are mutually exclusive. I grant you, it's a sandbox game not a story-oriented game, so it's somewhat legit to just expect people to ignore the glaring weirdnesses, but given the option I'd rather skip this kind of goofiness.

 

Addendum: And Bethesda COULD avoid this problem entirely if they'd just tune their stinkin' plots to the type of game they're creating instead of writing stories that would be more appropriate in a linear game and just jamming them in any old how. Story writing is not their strong point, however, so it may be too much to expect them to write a properly TUNED and INTEGRATED story at this stage. Maybe in 10 more years they'll figure it out.

Edited October 20, 2012 by PsychoBlonde

[curryinahurry]

As Hassat said, with a 15 level dungeon a lot of people might want to go back to it after a break. I could certainly see a situation where one might finish 8 levels, go on to finish the main quest and then put the game down for a while. A few weeks later that person might think, "what the heck, let me finish off the Endless Paths." That person's last relevant save game before the inevitable end game scenario might leave them several levels lower and without their favorite equipment to head back to the dungeon. That would be poor design and make finishing the Endless Paths feel more like a chore.

 

As a solution, the game could easily revert back to the player stronghold where there could be a limited number of activities like finishing up a few unresolved stronghold related quests or going back to the Endless Paths, but not allowing general overland exploration.

 

Also, as Hassat mentioned, this method could unlock some new content in the dungeon as a link or teaser to the expansion.

[wjbaird]

That person's last relevant save game before the inevitable end game scenario might leave them several levels lower and without their favorite equipment to head back to the dungeon. That would be poor design and make finishing the Endless Paths feel more like a chore.

 

That's easy enough to work-around by simply forcing a save-game just before the 'point of no return' - I seem to recall FO:NV did exactly that --- then if you decide you want to continue after 'finishing', you can reload from that point and keep playing.

 

I tend to agree with some of the other comments about how continuing after the main plot could put a lot of constraints on the main plot and how it ends...

[Osvir]

End game+? I'm not for an "after end-game", just throwing it out there. I really appreciated it about Icewind Dale and Baldur's Gate that when it ended it ended... not really much to free roam about when you've finished any of those games. So I dunno...

 

Also, I'm talking about when you've finished all content (expansions too). When it ends it ends.

[curryinahurry]

That person's last relevant save game before the inevitable end game scenario might leave them several levels lower and without their favorite equipment to head back to the dungeon. That would be poor design and make finishing the Endless Paths feel more like a chore.

 

That's easy enough to work-around by simply forcing a save-game just before the 'point of no return' - I seem to recall FO:NV did exactly that --- then if you decide you want to continue after 'finishing', you can reload from that point and keep playing.

 

I tend to agree with some of the other comments about how continuing after the main plot could put a lot of constraints on the main plot and how it ends...

 

Yes, and that might be fine, but to do a decent end game, we might be talking about 4-5 hours of game time + an additional player level or some nice equipment. It could take the wind out of one's sails to finish the Endless Paths if that were the case. If they do a character export right before the boss fight and allow you to drop that PC Party into a pre-determined load point near where you last exited the Endless Paths, that could be fine.

 

BTW, I'm not really for or against, I just want the game design to allow for different playstyles however Obsidian decides to handle this situation.

 

Also, I wouldn't mind a playable epilogue that served as a link to the expansion, no more than an hour or so. I think something like that, that could set a bunch of variables for the expansion to pick up would provide a nice level of immersion.

[PieSnatcher]

I don't have strong feelings either way, but I think it largely depends on the narrative. An after-game in PS:T, for example, wouldn't make much sense to me .

 

The most powerful stories I have experienced have had a definite ending. After the epic finale of the BG series, what more would you have done in the old areas of the game? I'm a sucker for a good story, and once the tale has been told, I generally leave what may happen afterwards to my imagination of what could be. And hopefully the game has been meaningful enough for me to really enjoy that part.

 

On the other hand, enjoyable games such as Fable provide an unending game of sorts- I can continue playing forever, and some missions are only available after the story has been told. But without much of a purpose, I don't spend too much time with it.

 

I'm open-minded though. I'm confident there are and can be playable epilogues that add more closure to the story.

[jivex5k]

What would it harm to allow players to continue after the game is over?

Those who don't want to don't have to. Those who do, can.

It's win win.

[SophosTheWise]

I think it depends on how the story ends. In the first Fable for example the story ended but there was still an after-game, where you could still hunt the treasures you've missed - and it also made sense, because your character didn't die or anything like that.

[Ieo]

What would it harm to allow players to continue after the game is over?

 

It would dilute the narrative, IMO.

 

The "point" in progressing through narrative-based games like BG or PS:T (okay, the latter was special) was the story. Mechanics, exploration, interactions--all of that is important, but the story is what holds it together. And all good stories, like books, have endings. The way a game ending is implemented significantly frames the strength of the story: In something like Oblivion, the storyline is an afterthought because the "point" is open world exploration, something you can continue to do after the main storyline.

 

So to turn it around: What would it harm to expect players to finish up loose ends before going to the end-game?

[Frisk]

So to turn it around: What would it harm to expect players to finish up loose ends before going to the end-game?

 

I'm pretty much in the "the game ends when the story ends" camp, but there is one thing to consider - if the end of the story involves some world-changing actions (kill the evil overlord or whatever), it may make sense to allow people to go back, say to some specific location to see what effect their actions really had.

 

Sometimes that will not work - for example, in Wizardry 8 the world-changing decisions at the end were simply too great for that to make sense - a short cutscene showing the effects of your actions would do the job much better.

[jivex5k]

What would it harm to allow players to continue after the game is over?

 

It would dilute the narrative, IMO.

 

The "point" in progressing through narrative-based games like BG or PS:T (okay, the latter was special) was the story. Mechanics, exploration, interactions--all of that is important, but the story is what holds it together. And all good stories, like books, have endings. The way a game ending is implemented significantly frames the strength of the story: In something like Oblivion, the storyline is an afterthought because the "point" is open world exploration, something you can continue to do after the main storyline.

 

So to turn it around: What would it harm to expect players to finish up loose ends before going to the end-game?

So if it had an epic ending, but then allowed you to still play despite the ending it would bother you?

Why not just stop playing?

 

It would harm players by them not being able to play anymore. Sure, you can load your last save, but you won't have any of the gear or rewards from your final quest.

[wanderon]

Put me down in the "when it ends it ends" camp - if I want to explore some little portion I missed I can load a save game (unless it was an iron man run) but chances are pretty good I will already have a dozen or more characters scattered through partial play throughs by the first time I finish anyway and will just have to figure out which one of them to pick up and take them to another ending.

 

Unless of course the ending has provided me with a notion for another new character to start...

 

I got NWN2 the first day it released and typically played 20+ hours a week yet it was well over a year later when I finished it for the first time (with untold number of partial playthroughs clogging up my hard drive)

[JFSOCC]

I'd like to have an 'after' game. Freely roaming and doing as I wish.

If there's stuff to do, sure. else I wonder what the point is.