CrazyPea

In the UK here, and still nothing - not even an email.

From France, no mail, still showing "shipping soon". UK here, and same for me - nothing. Sent in a query to support, but again, nothing from there so far...

No email confirmation for me (checked in my junk file too). I'm in the UK and backed at the $250 level. I don't expect a delivery estimate, but I would love some official announcement on when EU items shipped/will be shipping. Update 90 did imply that the physical goods would ship before the release date - hence the reason for delaying the physical copy of the game. If I had known shipping wasn't going to occur until after the release date anyway, I would have changed my vote (and had the disc shipped with rest of the components).

Well, I went and searched for information on this mod and I found this: So, your example of a "good starting point for a romance done well" is: 1) A character from a mod. Mods have a bunch of crucial departures from the rest of the game: they do not draw from the budget of the game, and they are optional in the purest sense of the word, for example. I do not find this to be a fair comparison. Especially considering that PE will likely not let you disable parts of the character outside of the game, like the mod allows you to do. 2) A character that was not originally designed as a romance option. In fact, it took three extra versions to include that at all. You said in an earlier page that romances are not a lot of work to do if they're planned from the beginning, but this example goes completely against that. 3) A character that has been developed for over four years. With the help of a professional writer from the beginning. Holy crap. You have read this post, right? You expect a writer to be able to match that in a sixteenth part of that time? You do realize that Obsidian cannot dedicate that many resources to the exclusive development of a companion, right? I just... seriously, is that the best example you have? A mod? Because if mods already have that quality, why do you care if PE has romances or not? Modders will make romances regardless of game content, and considering your example, they'll do a better job anyway! 1. I was showing what I believe is a good example of a well written romance. 2. You're right it didn't originally include a romance - but that's part of the point wanted to make, whole levels of depth have been added to the character since the romance was added - the romance element hasn't detracted from the character at all, it has enhanced the entire project. It also shows that Romance can be added later - this doesn't invalidate my earlier point because IT IS easier (and much LESS work) to incorporate the romance in the beginning. I never said it couldn't be added later, just that you are making your life harder for yourself by doing so. 3. The mod itself has been in development for 4 years not the romance aspect of it. These people are not professionals, they have day jobs/lives/loves etc. And they didn't have help of a professional writer from the beginning - Mr Pratchett played the mod from version 1, his advice and pointers started from Version 2 onwards. It's also taken four years because the modders chose to continue developing it, taking it from one game to another. I don't expect Obsidian match that at all (well ... perhaps if some of the NPCs make it into the sequels, but that's a different kettle of fish); I wanted to show it can be done and to see if there are aspects that could be applied to other romances. I also wanted to see if other people deemed it a good romance and if not, why not? You know, promoting a discussion about romances rather than the attacking/defending that is the current status quo in this topic. 4. Seriously? A Mod? Yes. - Does matter if amateurs (with help) wrote the mod? Good is good, no matter who writes it. Is it the best I can do? I wasn't really putting it out there as some sort of challenge. Foolishly, I thought the point was to show that romances can be well written. Why do I care about P:E if mods are a that level quality? Because all mods unfortunately are not at that level of quality. Also, although Oblivion and Skyrim can be fun games, they are very shallow; I want something with a little more depth and better writing, something which Obsidian is famous for. 5. Maybe modders will make romances, maybe they will be better than any 'Official' one, maybe they won't. Besides, I don't about you, but I love Obsidians writing and I would really like to see their take on it - especially Mr. Avellones ideas for a doomed romance.

A good starting point for a romance done well IMHO is Companion Vilja - a mod for Oblivion and Skyrim. Completely optional, the character didn't become unresponsive if you didn't woo her, any gender could woo her, the romance only developed after a lot of hours of playing (in Oblivion, it was quicker in Skyrim but they haven't finished with the Skyrim version yet) and perhaps best of all there was no sex scene - the entire relationship was extremely chaste. I think what really helped was that Vilja was a very well developed character (with contributions by Sir Terry Pratchett, of Discworld fame), certainly more developed than some professionally made characters.

Brilliant post, I don't agree with everything but it was a brilliant post - and now I'm determined to have your hat

Based on the way the internet/game forums tend to work ... not much would cease. The debate would probably just shift direction ... if/whenever the topic came up again. It's not a debate that is confined to a single game, really. Course, I'm a cynical old bat. I'm a middle aged optimistic old bat, but I'm catching you up

I know, right? It's like this thread went back in time to September, with all the namecalling and such EDIT: That includes you, CrazyPea. You know, since you liked my post. I refer the right honourable gentleman to the post above this one

He started it .... (joke - just in case...)

why Why, thank you sir

Then if that is what it looked like, then I apologise.

If people are contentious, it's just due to them waging this fight way back before the Kickstarter even ended. Same old grind - some need it, some dislike it, others don't care. I wonder how much of this would cease if Obsidian made an official announcement. Brian Fargo said pretty much from the start that romances would not be a part of Torment: Tides of Numenera and people accept this. I think part of this come from not knowing one way or the other.

Excuse me? You asked me if I had when you were point-scoring. LOL. * shakes head* I wasn't trying to score points, I was trying to show that I was speaking from experience in the field of actually writing romance in a mod. You, on the other hand seemed to be concerned with 'demolioshing' the 'passive/aggressive n00b of the year' (and you imply that you are not insulting).

Well perhaps if you spoke with a civil tongue they could climb down from their high horses and have a civil conversation with you.

No, I said it wasn't much extra work (in the sense of graft) if done at the point of character creation - i.e. if you planned it in advance and implemented during the writing phase. It becomes 'work' in (the sense of a chore) when you try to add it afterwards. Congratulations that your work was published, but was it relevant to the discussion?