Expansions

[Badmojo]

The new announcement talked about PE expansions, which I have mixed feelings about. I am very happy it is an expansion and NOT some silly DLC. However I do have some fears.

 

Fears

- The main game will be short. I want them to release a LONG game like the old games were, I really do not want a short game like todays games. If they are planning for sequels, they may want to feel the need to shorten the main game to hurry up and start on its expansion.

- To be continued/cliffhanger ending - I want the first game to be a COMPLETE game, whatever story its going for, I want it wrapped up in the first game with no major arcs to be left over for expansions or sequels. The next games/expansions should be its own story, that may or may not have some connection to the main story, but the ending of the first game should feel like an actual ending and not have the dreaded 'to be continuted' feeling that so many companies do to try and force you to buy the later games to get the complete story.

- Cut Content, the bane of games in this DLC generation, a bit related to the cliffhanger ending. Stuff that was obvious cut from games to be sold later in expansions. Bioware has been the worst with it since EA bought them out. Major important plot points like the shadow broker, or an important characters like the prometheon to be cut out and sold later. Since PE will not have any DLC (as far as I know) and is going to be expansions, that is good. However, I do not want some major threads to not be answered in the first game, only to be anwsered in the second. Some minor ones are OK, and giving some more information about an event is fine too as long as it was answered in the first game.

- All roads lead to rome, related to cliffhanger endings, I want major branching outcomes/endings based on what I do in the game, not all leading into the same ending with minor cosmetic differences (looking at you bioware). On a related note, I would like the endings to be expanded on a little more than what is usually done in games. In most games, you go in, spend hours/days/weeks playing, then after defeating the big bad, you might get a few seconds cut scenes, or talk to a few characters, or have a brief anouncement of what happens and then its over. It would be nice to have a endings that last a little longer and go a bit more into details instead of filling like a quick pat on the back and saying 'well done, now get out of here'.

 

 

I have faith in obsidian, I just wanted to get some minor concerns off my chest, that is all.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Badmojo

[diablo169]

Ok just to hopefully calm matters down, this is an expansion pack not DLC. I realise expansion packs arent released much anymore these days, but they are not content short changed from the main game and held back. Usually it's an independant post main plot story.

[NerdBoner]

have no fears friend-o, Feargusaurus and his merry band of Obsidiraptors will not tease us in a cruel BioWarian like manner...

 

the expansion will likely be something like Tales of the sword coast which will only serve to add to the richness of the world.

 

as for "cliffhannger endings"...a world were souls are confirmed to exist as is reincarnation really doesn't require much in the way of agonizing cliffhangers. Truth be told you could play the same soul reborn in a different age as part of a story line...

 

BG1 ended without a huge cliffhanger, the story with Sarevok was resolved but it naturally led into BG2.

 

just relax and open your wallet...

[Fluffle]

I see your concern. I just noticed for myself:

 

The same announcement but made by a certain other company would have a much different impact on me than by Obsidian.

 

You gave the answer yourself: It is faith.

So the difference is, I can believe in Obsidian Entertainment to handle this properly.

I would not believe in certain other companies...

[Merin]

There is a major benefit to planning an expansion before the main game is finished, and even knowing that it will happen while you are working on the main game.

 

You can leave plot hooks. Hints. Doorways and NPCs that lead into the expansion once the expansion is installed.

 

I think this is awesome news, and I think they are doing it just right.

 

This isn't "deadline isn't being reached - cut that content and we'll finish it later to sell as DLC" or, worse, "let's see what content we can plan that will add-into the main game, but be separate enough that we can sell it separately on day one for extra money"....

... this is "we've gathered enough funds, think our main game is funded quite well, and now as the extra funds roll in we'll add the enticement of an expansion!" It's more game, just giving them a longer window to give us that extra content.

 

We get the main game sooner because the newer content is released later. Win-win!

[Amentep]

I imagine "Heart of Winter / Trials of the Luremaster" or "Tales of the Sword Coast" are what they're thinking about (as opposed to "lets end BG series with an expansion pack" of "Throne of Bhaal"...)

 

Doubt it'd be just cut content (explaining the 6 month delay).

 

One interesting thing is the expansion idea indicates a commitment to the world beyond the kickstarter, which is nice (or maybe I'm delusional).

[NerdBoner]

I imagine "Heart of Winter / Trials of the Luremaster" or "Tales of the Sword Coast" are what they're thinking about (as opposed to "lets end BG series with an expansion pack" of "Throne of Bhaal"...)

 

Doubt it'd be just cut content (explaining the 6 month delay).

 

One interesting thing is the expansion idea indicates a commitment to the world beyond the kickstarter, which is nice (or maybe I'm delusional).

you're not delusional...it just feels unnatural to believe in gaming companies these days.

 

But it is beautiful to believe.

[IchigoRXC]

I still believe.

[Shoeless Joe Jackson]

There is a lot of respect and trust involved in Project Eternity and it flows both ways.

 

Whatever the personal motivation of each individual who has pledged to the Kickstarter or through Paypal, we are all ultimately trusting Obsidian to make a game that we will enjoy playing. I also think a significant proportion of the people backing this project enjoyed the old games, but also have been turned off by the way gaming companies treat the fans/consumers now, particularly things like Day 1 DLC, stripping out chunks of the game purely to sell as DLC and other underhand tactics.

 

This is where the respect must flow both ways. If Obsidian were to pull a stunt like the above, making a very short game with day 1 DLC and obvious chunks pulled out purely to sell to us again, then the respect has not been given back to the fans and I think they'd have a very hard sell if they went for another Kickstarter. I for one would not pledge again, that's for absolutely sure.

 

But they won't do anything like that, I'm certain. They seem like terrific people and apart from anything else, they simply have far too damn much riding on this project to give the fans the shaft like that.

 

As for a commitment from Obsidian to the world beyond this game, I think that's pretty certain also. It is Project Eternity after all. Every interview I've seen with the guys has them talking about the long term ownership of the IP and the way they can develop the world over time. I actually think that's what they're most excited about. So long as the game doesn't bomb, we will see a sequel.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Shoeless Joe Jackson

[Ausir]

I'm sure there are things that they're thinking of adding to the game, but they simply cannot devote enough resources to do properly for the main game's launch - these are likely to end up in the expansion, not stuff that is finished on day 1 and then cut deliberately (as you can see from the stretch goals - e.g. if the game failed to raise the next stretch goal then we would have likely seen barbarians and ciphers in the expansion).

[aVENGER]

I'm sure there are things that they're thinking of adding to the game, but they simply cannot devote enough resources to do properly for the main game's launch - these are likely to end up in the expansion, not stuff that is finished on day 1 and then cut deliberately

 

^ This.

 

I understand that some people have been burned by EA/Bioware in the past, especially with silliness such as NPCs telling the player in-game that they need to get a DLC in order to see a super-awesome area/NPC/item/whatever. However, let's have a little faith in Obsidian, shall we. These guys have made expansions the right way in the past. They know what they're doing.

[DocDoomII]

To the OP

 

Fear not my friend. If it's like the old IE games and expansion, the expansion will be integrated in the main game, meaning that there will not be a cliffhanger.

They have said that the base game will be in the league of the old IE games too, so it will not be short.

Cut concept... well as of now they have only added stuff with the various stretch goals...

[Monte Carlo]

Remember Heart of Winter? Some people thought it was a bit short. Sawyer acknowledged that he could see why some people might feel that way and the next thing we know they push out TotL for free.

 

Past behaviour as an accurate metric of future performance. I'll eat my hat if Obsidian let you down on something as crucial as an XP.

 

I'm totally chilled about it.

[DocDoomII]

I imagine "Heart of Winter / Trials of the Luremaster" or "Tales of the Sword Coast" are what they're thinking about (as opposed to "lets end BG series with an expansion pack" of "Throne of Bhaal"...)

 

Doubt it'd be just cut content (explaining the 6 month delay).

 

One interesting thing is the expansion idea indicates a commitment to the world beyond the kickstarter, which is nice (or maybe I'm delusional).

Nope, not delusional.

They already said more than once that if the game goes well they want to commit to the new word they are creating.

[cyberarmy]

I'm sure there are things that they're thinking of adding to the game, but they simply cannot devote enough resources to do properly for the main game's launch - these are likely to end up in the expansion, not stuff that is finished on day 1 and then cut deliberately

 

^ This.

 

I understand that some people have been burned by EA/Bioware in the past, especially with silliness such as NPCs telling the player in-game that they need to get a DLC in order to see a super-awesome area/NPC/item/whatever. However, let's have a little faith in Obsidian, shall we. These guys have made expansions the right way in the past. They know what they're doing.

 

It really bugs me that people even think Obsidian and DLC coops are on the same level...

Internet people complains just for the sake of complaining ...

[DocDoomII]

Remember Heart of Winter? Some people thought it was a bit short. Sawyer acknowledged that he could see why some people might feel that way and the next thing we know they push out TotL for free.

 

 

I think that's the only expansion for an expansion I've ever seen...

[Lysen]

I also think it's a bit early to announce an expansion when the main game isn't even released. Maybe they will add to it the goals from the kickstarter campaign that won't be achieved, as Ausir suggested.

[rjshae]

They were talking about an episodic release plan anyway; the expansion pack will keep the development team active once the work load drops off under the release schedule. Plus they can add in a bunch of extras that aren't feasible under the current budget and Kickstarter requirements. It's a good thing, not a bad one.

Edited October 8, 2012 by rjshae

[Monte Carlo]

The Internet - a place where good news is immediately bad. An XP shows commitment to the setting and the potential for future releases. Which means more cool games.

 

Srsly, what's not to like about this news?

[Amentep]

I like it! But, yeah...internet.

[cyberarmy]

The Internet - a place where good news is immediately bad. An XP shows commitment to the setting and the potential for future releases. Which means more cool games.

 

Srsly, what's not to like about this news?

 

Well i forsee some of my future holidays are going to be ruined My future girlfriends may get upset.

 

Note to self: Find gamer women!

[Hiro Protagonist II]

Great update. As others have said, just look at the other IE games and their expansions. That's what it's going to be like.

[aVENGER]

BTW, some clarification from Obsidian's kickstarter page:

 

All the funding that we receive from Kickstarter and PayPal will be used to make the base game - No money raised will be used for funding the expansion in any way.

 

Source: http://www.kickstarter.com/profile/obsidian/comments

[NerdBoner]

BTW, some clarification from Obsidian's kickstarter page:

 

All the funding that we receive from Kickstarter and PayPal will be used to make the base game - No money raised will be used for funding the expansion in any way.

 

Source: http://www.kickstart...sidian/comments

 

*begrudgingly puts away torch and pitchfork*

[norolim]

The main game will be short. I want them to release a LONG game like the old games were, I really do not want a short game like todays games. If they are planning for sequels, they may want to feel the need to shorten the main game to hurry up and start on its expansion.

 

Fear not. This is form one of the recent the Kickstarter QA sessions with Fergus:

 

Question: One aspect the old IE games were famous for, was the almost epic length of gameplay (80h+) in comparison to more recent games (20-40h). Where is Project Eternity aiming at?

Feargus: Our goal is to hang in there with the old games.

Edited October 8, 2012 by norolim