Update #17: Brian Fargo from inXile Kicks In, Obsidian Kicks it Forward, New $165 Tier, and Expansion

[DocDoomII]

I'd like to remember you all some *subtle* day one DLC examples:

 

This is Shale (golem) from DA: O. The same thing happened with an NPC in the party camp for the Keep DLC.

 

And what about the Prothean DLC in ME3? All the files were already in the game, but you needed to hand out an additional 10 bucks to play it.

 

 

Do I need to go on?

Edited October 8, 2012 by DocDoomII

[Magnum Opus]

I'm just having a blast watching what else my $250.00 pledge is going to end up getting me, in addition to what I actually put the money down for... is gonna be like Christmas whenever that package finally arrives. You guys are bloody awesome!

[Rosveen]

If people are really referring to this as day one DLC, they must never have actually played a proper expansion pack from the I.E. games.

 

There is no comparison.

Well, after unpleasant experiences with modern games I cringe at the word "expansion" or "DLC", no matter the context. But you're right. Technically, Throne of Bhaal was an expansion pack too

[Ausir]

I'm sure there are things that they're thinking of adding to the game, but they simply cannot devote enough resources to do properly for the main game's launch - these are likely to end up in the expansion, not stuff that is finished on day 1 and then cut deliberately (as you can see from the stretch goals - e.g. if the game failed to raise the next stretch goal then we would have likely seen barbarians and ciphers in the expansion). And while I probably won't cough up the $165 for this tier, I'll simply buy the expansion when it is released.

[Naithin]

This campaign is too top-heavy and has been from the start. There is almost no value in the range between

 

Now, I know Kickstarter isn't a store, Kickstarter isn't something you're "buying from", etc etc and so forth.

 

But their goal is obviously to include new incentives to raise pledges, and they're doing absolutely *nothing* to make it enticing for people on the lower end to raise their pledges a moderate amount.

 

I'm sitting on $20, and the next tier that seems at all tempting is $120 away from my starting point. They really need to build a staircase of value between the two to try and make the climb seem less arduous.

 

I'm not saying this for me, as stuff I want. I'm saying that if they want to actually raise a larger number of their pledges, for the game's sake they have to look a bit lower.

 

Absolutely this.

 

I realise a lot of the tempting features have been made into addons, which I appreciate. I've been quivering back and forth on whether to update to the Beta Access addon or not. For almost any other project I likely would in a heartbeat -- assuming I had the same degree of interest that I do for P:E! -- but for a narrative driven RPG, it might be doing myself a disservice. On the other hand, the beta testing process IS one I enjoy.. So yes, a tough one.

 

One Addon I can almost garauntee pushing me over the line would be for the Expansion -- God I love proper, real, honest to God Expansions -- so please consider adding that in a day or two!

 

But otherwise, completely agree HHO. Sure pushing for the bigger pledges is great and all, but don't underestimate the power of volume sales as well by nudging the lowest guys up even a notch or two! Reality is with a family to support I simply cannot afford nor justify jumping up as many tiers as I'd like to.. But a little extra? Well... We might be able to sort something out and find some wriggle room in the budget for it.

[Lysen]

Furthermore, there's no information at all about this expansion.

 

They said it will be made in the spirit of the Infinity Engine expansion packs.

 

Tales of the Sword Coast was awesome. So was Heart of Winter + Trials of the Luremaster. 'Nuff said.

 

I didn't really played Heart of Winter, maybe it was good, I don't know. As for Tales of the Sword Coast, it didn't had much content except for the mega-dungeon (Durlag's Tower). I am curious what they are going to add in the expansion. It won't be another mega-dungeon because we already have one. Maybe some new classes and races, new areas to explore and a new companion. I would definitely buy it, but after the main game is released and only if it will be good. We don't know yet.

[Ashram]

This is pretty cool. Like the idea. However one request.

 

I really like my non-digital tier of support. Is there any way to tack on the expansion and still maintain the other rewards? Could you please put in maybe a boost option like you have to buy extra versions of the game?

 

That would be super!

[Kevin Lynch]

Sure, I'll jump up to the new tier. It's all good.

[Monte Carlo]

There's no problem, people are agitating for more stuff for less. It's natural. But it's still agitating for more for less.

Edited October 8, 2012 by Monte Carlo

[DocDoomII]

If people are really referring to this as day one DLC, they must never have actually played a proper expansion pack from the I.E. games.

 

There is no comparison.

Well, after unpleasant experiences with modern games I cringe at the word "expansion" or "DLC", no matter the context. But you're right. Technically, Throne of Bhaal was an expansion pack too

It was, but yet it wasn't.

That was way bigger than a normal IE expansion, since they considered it more like a BG3 (it's written in the manual too, I still remember reading that sentence the day that I bought it at release).

 

I'm gonna translate from the italian here, so it may be inaccurate if some of you has the eng version of the manual:

 

"Since the beginning of Baldur's Gate series we had in mind to create an epic trilogy. Baldur's Gate II: Throne of Bhaal is the final chapter of the trilogy and the conclusion of the son of Bhaal's saga. But don't worry, we have other great projects in the work."

[Bootsy81]

This campaign is too top-heavy and has been from the start. There is almost no value in the range between

 

Now, I know Kickstarter isn't a store, Kickstarter isn't something you're "buying from", etc etc and so forth.

 

But their goal is obviously to include new incentives to raise pledges, and they're doing absolutely *nothing* to make it enticing for people on the lower end to raise their pledges a moderate amount.

 

I'm sitting on $20, and the next tier that seems at all tempting is $120 away from my starting point. They really need to build a staircase of value between the two to try and make the climb seem less arduous.

 

I'm not saying this for me, as stuff I want. I'm saying that if they want to actually raise a larger number of their pledges, for the game's sake they have to look a bit lower.

 

I do kind of agree that it has been a little lop-sided to favour the higher tiers but I would suggest waiting to see exactly what they settle on as add-ons. Then you could tailor your tier a bit and perhaps create one that suits you. If you have a $20 one you can see if they allow the expansion for example as a $20 or so add-on then you get the game and expansion for $40. Not a bad deal really. Or add on the novella, or strategy guide or beta key. There's a bit of customization there if you want it.

 

I do actually wish more kickstarters would make their rewards more modular somehow. $25-$30 for the base game then have soundtracks, novellas, boxed copies, expansions, concept arts, collectors books etc as add-ons. Then add Major rewards like NPC's, Items, Inns and NPC parties for the really big $1000 plus tiers. I'm sure with planning something like that would be good so people can mix and match. Project eternity is almost there, and arguably will be if they allow the expansion, novella and soundtrack as add-ons.

[HungryHungryOuroboros]

I'm sitting on $20, and the next tier that seems at all tempting is $120 away from my starting point.

 

So you're sitting on the equivalent of a trip-and-a-half at Starbucks, you've got a game that would retail for more than twenty bucks and you're whining? Sheesh.

I'm not whining. I'm happy with what I have. I'm happy to, in some small way, support this project.

 

Obsidian wants to make me happier enough with something more that I give them more money. Not me specifically, obviously, but the larger base of backers as a whole, most of whom are in that lower set of tiers. I'm just saying that, for someone from my position, there's nothing enticing within $50 of where I am, and if they want people in my position to upgrade they should have something in there that makes it easier to think of it as "only $20 more for this" and "only $15 more for that".

 

If they don't do anything in that regard I'm still happy to sit on the $20 tier and just get the game and have great fun with it when it comes out. I'm not sitting here with a sense of entitlement. I'm just reasonably stating that they're lumping a lot of stuff into an already top-heavy $250+ area, which is an unreasonable leap for most of their base.

 

They're giving people in the digital $110 tier a chance to give $55 more. That's less than 500 people in total who might upgrade to the new one.

 

They have 25,000 people sitting at $20. 11,700 at $25. These are people who don't need to be told a reason they might be enticed by something more than $200 away from them.

 

Eternity right now has a lower pledge per backer than Wasteland 2 did, and I feel like this is largely because Wasteland 2 had a far better "staircase" effect with their pledge amounts. I feel like Obsidian could do better in this regard.

[Quadrone]

While I am happy about the announcement that Obsidian plans to release a "real" expansion instead of DLC I still must say that I'm unsure if the announcement was a smart thing to do at this moment.

It's just that it serves little purpose since Obsidian have literally nothing to say about it right now because, well, even the main game is still in the middle of the planning phase.

So right now some people are mildly happy knowing that there will be an expansion and others are now getting upset because they either feel they are not getting the full game or that Obsidian already is thinking of ways to milk more money from them or ... whatever.

 

Tldr: I think the announcement was premature since it generates more confusion/unrest than actual happiness.

[Kaldurenik]

Hmm i guess they wont make a physical copy of the expansion then ? (sad)...

 

This is not day one dlc... The expansion will be released 6 months after (give or take?) the main game release date.

 

Expansion as a addon? Well... Some of the prices here make me facepalm... 10$ for the expansion? You know the prices here now are unique for the kickstarter right? The price will be higher once they sell the game thats why 10$ is crazy for a expansion. Anyway maybe the should make a 180$ tier or so that have the CE box and all the physical items and then also the expansion / WL 2 and so on? (the 180$ pledge was just a example). That way people that want a box can still get it without making a 110$ jump.

 

Beside that not much for me in this update beside the expansion and the art. Cant wait for the next update \o/

[Monte Carlo]

Well, I know it's not exactly scientific but every time I refresh the Kickstarter page the pledge total goes up a bit.

[Kaldurenik]

It made a jump... Most likely have abit higher for a while if other updates are anything to go by.

[Naithin]

There's no problem, people are agitating for more stuff for less. It's natural. But it's still agitating for more for less.

 

I don't know that that is really the case, Monte. At least, I don't think it was HHO's intent and it certainly wasn't mine in the backing I gave him. It was given and supported in the spirit of constructive criticism to see this thing do even better still.

 

I understand that if too much is offered at the lower tiers that it reduces the incentive for those who can pledge higher to actually do so and so it is a fine balance to walk. However the feeling I get from HHO -- and one I agree with, clearly -- is that it has been weighted too cautiously in that direction and as a result, potentially a large amount of dollars from volume sales has been left on the table.

 

That is it.

 

All this said, I'd be somewhat surprised if an xpac addon didn't happen very shortly (well, it sort of has to happen shortly if it's going to ). I would have said exceptionally surprised, except I saw earlier in this thread a reference to the fact that none of the dollars raised in this KS would be going directly toward the xpac -- a sentiment I can get behind -- and thus it may make such an addon... awkward.

[Archon]

Kicking It Forward ? Awesome.

A real expansion pack 6 months later ? Awesome.

Brian Fargo giving Wasteland 2 for high level tiers ? Awesome.

 

The new $165 tier ? Meh.

There's at least 61,290 people who will already get Wasteland 2.

+1 for the expansion pack as an Add-on

Edited October 8, 2012 by Archon

[Cantousent]

I agree that Obsidz could do better with spacing out the tiers, but I also think that there's more afoot than folks wanting more for less. Some folks think the xpac will steal funds from the initial game (it won't), some folks think that the xpac is a day one dlc for the game (it isn't), or that xpacs aren't worth the effort in the first place (they are). Most laughable to me is a common syndrome so far of folks clamoring for another game that hearkens to the grand ol' days of the Infinity Engine games and then complaining about a feature that was common in those games. The xpac is a good thing.

 

I also agree with folks that add-ons could be good, including physical items, but I don't think Obsidz should lose money on them. If they offer t-shirts, something I've joined with others to get offered as an add-on, those t-shirts should be quality, which means they should not be cheap. They need to be a high enough quality to be a real value and then Obsidian needs to make enough money to make it a significant benefit to the project altogether. It can't just eek out enough to pay for itself. It needs to make enough money that they can take the risk in offering it.

[Adam Brennecke]

Offering the Expansion as an add-on can be problematic for figuring out the budget of the game. All the funds that we receive via Kickstarter and PayPal will go to the base game only. 100% of it. If we offer the expansion as an add-on, that total number gets confusing. I'll be talking to Feargus about it.

[anek]

I do actually wish more kickstarters would make their rewards more modular somehow. $25-$30 for the base game then have soundtracks, novellas, boxed copies, expansions, concept arts, collectors books etc as add-ons.

 

But then it would feel more like a store than like a fund-raising drive.

[zlarm]

My question would be how are they going to fund the expansion pack? From the KS campaign?

 

Edit: Nvm Adam posted while I was writing this.

Edited October 8, 2012 by zlarm

[Rabain]

You could look at it like this: if there is an Xpac addon the money will go towards the main game development but you get the Xpac "free" if/when it is completed.

 

This is basically what is happening with the $165+ tiers right now anyway. If you have upped your pledge to a $165+ tier you have not paid for the Xpac, you have paid more for the main game but get the Xpac free.

 

And Addon would be the same thing.

[Amentep]

Offering the Expansion as an add-on can be problematic for figuring out the budget of the game. All the funds that we receive via Kickstarter and PayPal will go to the base game only. 100% of it. If we offer the expansion as an add-on, that total number gets confusing. I'll be talking to Feargus about it.

 

Separate kickstarter then?

[cyberarmy]

My question would be how are they going to fund the expansion pack? From the KS campaign?

 

No, just check the 4th page of thid thread please.