"Semi-random loot lists" confirmed

[Infinitron]

http://www.kickstarter.com/projects/obsidian/project-eternity/comments

 

@Tristan The drops system will be semi-random. What I mean by that is there will be specific loot drop lists for things and that loot with be more made loot and not randomly created items. The loot dropped is then picked from the list. Using loot lists, lets us balance the loot that is dropping in specific parts of the game and with specific encounters without having to bring up every single monster and change their specific loot. Although we can still do that for unique things.

 

 

Does this mean non-monster enemy NPCs won't drop the equipment they're using and wearing, Obsidian? Because I hate that.

[ImRhoven]

:/

 

I really dislike it when enemies (especially humanoids) drop a bunch of random stuff rather than what they are actually wearing and using.

 

Also please no leveled drops (or keep it within reason). Not like DA:O were at a certain point every simple bandit was dropping fortunes of gold and super expensive and super rare dragonbone weapons and armor.

 

Or like KotoR2 where in the endgame every other chest held the same supposedly unique high level armor.

Edited October 2, 2012 by ImRhoven

[Hypevosa]

I assume random loot would be "Drops X coins or X gems" etc. I really hope things drop what they wear at least lol.

[Elerond]

I think that it is similar with BG's dropping loot. So enemies have locked loot what they drop (their equipment for example) and then they can have random loot like money, jewels, rings, amulets and etc..

 

This random loot gives desingers easy way to use same enemies in different areas but change that random part of their loot to be different.

[Tigranes]

I like semi-random for barrels, chests and other things when done right, but as Infinitron says, I'd like to see enemies drop stuff that actually corresponds to what they have.

 

You could use a combination, e.g. Bandit A always drops leather armour & short sword, but may have a random list that includes small gems, gold, scrolls, etc.

[Jozape]

http://www.kickstart...ernity/comments

 

@Tristan The drops system will be semi-random. What I mean by that is there will be specific loot drop lists for things and that loot with be more made loot and not randomly created items. The loot dropped is then picked from the list. Using loot lists, lets us balance the loot that is dropping in specific parts of the game and with specific encounters without having to bring up every single monster and change their specific loot. Although we can still do that for unique things.

 

 

Does this mean non-monster enemy NPCs won't drop the equipment they're using and wearing, Obsidian? Because I hate that.

 

I imagine that the goal of semi-random is to have a few fixed items(such as that the NPC is wearing) always be available. Does make me worry about pickpocketing though.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Jozape

[Archmage Silver]

I like semi-random for barrels, chests and other things when done right, but as Infinitron says, I'd like to see enemies drop stuff that actually corresponds to what they have.

 

You could use a combination, e.g. Bandit A always drops leather armour & short sword, but may have a random list that includes small gems, gold, scrolls, etc.

This is exactly what I suggested on Kickstarter earlier today, a blend of BG's static item placement and IWD's semi-random loot lists would be a good match.

[Rostere]

Enemies should DEFINITELY drop what they are wearing. On the other hand, I don't mind if what they wear is slightly randomized, as long as the mechanism is very down- toned and the game does not become a piñata- smashing Diablo clone.

[PsychoBlonde]

Enemies should DEFINITELY drop what they are wearing. On the other hand, I don't mind if what they wear is slightly randomized, as long as the mechanism is very down- toned and the game does not become a piñata- smashing Diablo clone.

 

This was an interesting mechanic in Titan Quest because when rare items would proc you could actually SEE the mobs wielding them--and you got to experience their effects first hand as you got walloped with them.

 

If enemies are going to drop what they've got, then they also ought to use up their potions/wands/consumables in the combat unless you manage to drop them very quickly.

[Amentep]

I dunno, BG NPCs didn't drop everything they never carried. Beating off a BG bandit didn't lead them to drop their pants for example.

 

Wait, that doesn't sound right...

 

Seriously though, I would like the humanoids to have lootable weapons / armor, but I'm not sure that I'd be overly upset if they didn't either.

[Tigranes]

As I recall, the IE games were pretty consistent in ensuring this. In BG2 Irenicus' dungeon, every Kobold would drop a shortbow or dagger / short sword depending on what they were using to fight, and sometimes, a low-level scroll, some gold or gems; no armour, obviously. In BG1, you could guarantee that just about every bandit dropped leather armour in addition to their weapon. If a kobold was shooting fire arrows at you, or you saw an enemy cleric using scrolls or wands, you could be sure that if you killed them before they expended it all, you'd get your hands on the things.

 

Obviously, IWD had semi-random lists on barrels and such. I'm fine with loot tables, as long as we have sensible loot for enemies like above.

[Stun]

http://www.kickstart...ernity/comments

 

@Tristan The drops system will be semi-random. What I mean by that is there will be specific loot drop lists for things and that loot with be more made loot and not randomly created items. The loot dropped is then picked from the list. Using loot lists, lets us balance the loot that is dropping in specific parts of the game and with specific encounters without having to bring up every single monster and change their specific loot. Although we can still do that for unique things.

 

 

Does this mean non-monster enemy NPCs won't drop the equipment they're using and wearing, Obsidian? Because I hate that.

Sounds exactly like IWD 1's system.

 

Ie. some loot is absolutely set (the Elven warrior commander chick in the severed hand Always drops the Boots of Speed that she wears for your fight with her; The Frost Giant leader always drops his spear that he uses against you in your fight with him, etc.) In the meantime, there are loot tables for the non-set drops and you get something at random from those tables.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Stun

[Piccolo]

I don't mind loot being slightly random, as long as it's still plausible (e.g wolves shouldn't carry money), and doesn't feel scaled to my character's level in any way (looking for loot or opening a big chest just isn't exciting if you know you're only ever going to get some junk that the devs feel is appropriate to your character's level).

Edited October 2, 2012 by Piccolo

[rjshae]

Constantly finding the same mediocre equipment on dozens of corpses could get old really fast. I think that's probably why they don't do it. Yes it's useful to collect equipment at low levels for conversion into cash, but after that it's not terribly productive. It reminds me of the old gold-box series of games where you'd get a humongous list of ordinary loot frustratingly intermixed with a few rare items of value.

 

Perhaps there is a useful middle ground? Bodies with higher value loot could be flagged in some way (with a glowing aura?) so that you know which ones to pillage. (The equivalent of checking the bodies for treasure.) You can then safely ignore the other bodies if you so choose. It might also be nice to have a tie-in with the appraise skill for successfully identifying high value loot.

 

[norolim]

I also don't like it when humanoid enemies drop only random loot. This is good for an action game like Diablo. Not a traditional RPG. A combination of what they are wearing and some random loot is the best option, I would say. Let's hope Obsidian hear us on that.

[HangedMan]

I like semi-random for barrels, chests and other things when done right, but as Infinitron says, I'd like to see enemies drop stuff that actually corresponds to what they have.

 

You could use a combination, e.g. Bandit A always drops leather armour & short sword, but may have a random list that includes small gems, gold, scrolls, etc.

I like this. I would love to see this implemented.

[Infinitron]

Perhaps there is a useful middle ground? Bodies with higher value loot could be flagged in some way (with a glowing aura?) so that you know which ones to pillage. (The equivalent of checking the bodies for treasure.) You can then safely ignore the other bodies if you so choose. It might also be nice to have a tie-in with the appraise skill for successfully identifying high value loot.

 

Who needs a glowing aura? It's pretty obvious. Generic no-name bandit? Don't loot. Named miniboss NPC? Loot.

[Rabain]

I'd be kind of hoping that we will be looting Generic no-name bandit regardless simply because gold is so hard to acquire. Even if his bow of crapola sells for 3coppers, I'd carry it to a merchant so I'm 3c wealthier.

 

Semi-random at least offers better control of loot drops, fixed loot list by mob type + bonus loot by mob quality. This could mean someone like a Kobold Leader could drop armor from the same list as the kobold soldier while also dropping his +1 Bow of HittingYouInDaFace that only he owns.

[Sensuki]

I prefer the BG1 system over the IWD1 system. For instance in a previous IWD game where I got a certain item I enjoyed but didn't get it in the second game, and got a worse one (or one that I didn't want), I reloaded and fought again until I got that item.

 

If they're trying to reduce reloading (a la use of cooldowns), why have a random item system (unless it doesn't involve magic items, but I assume it might).

Edited October 2, 2012 by Sensuki

[Aedelric]

Semi-random is good, depending how it is implemented. I assume it means no wild wolves with gold pouches and bandits drop a variety of stolen items.

 

As for characters dropping what weapon they use, it would be nice but not massively important unless the weapon was magical or unique.

[Jaesun]

I'd much more prefer that it was just like the IE games. If someone is doing some unusual damage to you, you could almost be certain they had some kind of magical weapon. And when they died, you got that item (as well as the gear they are using).

[Crusty]

It really depends on the implementation. You could make an argument for things like some chests, barrels, or minor items like gold/gems, etc.

 

But regardless of the implementation of semi-random loot, you want dead enemies to at least drop the items that they were carrying. You don't want someone wailing on you with a magical sledgehammer, then drop a low grade dagger instead because it corresponds with the loot list and level range.

 

That would be incredibly frustrating.

[rjshae]

Perhaps there is a useful middle ground? Bodies with higher value loot could be flagged in some way (with a glowing aura?) so that you know which ones to pillage. (The equivalent of checking the bodies for treasure.) You can then safely ignore the other bodies if you so choose. It might also be nice to have a tie-in with the appraise skill for successfully identifying high value loot.

 

Who needs a glowing aura? It's pretty obvious. Generic no-name bandit? Don't loot. Named miniboss NPC? Loot.

 

And if one of the twenty no-name bandits had a randomly generated gem? I guess you'll miss it.

[SGray]

On what i understood they are implementing that either to control unique/quest item drop from regular mobs, and/or to limit amount of loot and gold could possibly be retrieved from every given location (random encounters(?) included). First for easier implementing of sidequests, second for balance purposes. That's better then pure random, where you could never get this quest ring from group of bandits, and sometimes better then manual placement of this ring to specific bandit's pocket, when you know its on him after playthrough or reload. Additionally that's convenient to story writer to know how much money player can possibly obtain before entering specific part of the game, not looking back on munchkins that could farm 1 copper per respawning rat.

[DocDoomII]

 

Does this mean non-monster enemy NPCs won't drop the equipment they're using and wearing, Obsidian? Because I hate that.

That means that if you meet a group of 5 goblins, you will have less chance of finding the same, potion and gem and amount of gold pieces on each end every single of them.