Armour and weapon designs - a plea.

[ImRhoven]

I'm also strongly in favour of realistic, or rather functional, looking weaponry and armor. One of my personal pet peeves is pauldrons so large that they're causing the wearer to suffer from claustrophobia. It's bad enough wearing a full helmet, no need to add more tunnel vision to that.

 

Also boobplates and chainmail bikinis are a no-no for female combatants.

[Ieo]

I'm also strongly in favour of realistic, or rather functional, looking weaponry and armor. One of my personal pet peeves is pauldrons so large that they're causing the wearer to suffer from claustrophobia. It's bad enough wearing a full helmet, no need to add more tunnel vision to that.

 

Also boobplates and chainmail bikinis are a no-no for female combatants.

 

The best spike-pauldrons I've seen in 3D-zoom games are the ones that gouge out the eyes of the wearer whenever the avatar turns his/her head. I laugh every tiiiiime.

[D3xter]

I don't want realistic stuff. I play a game to dream. I'm bored of serious business in later games. I'm good with fantasy design as far as it's not "too much" (I'm fine with "boobplates" à la PA report Cadegund concept, for exemple). Players and games forgot to dream these days.

 

Work under restrictions from licensing and publisher:

 

 

Create your own fantasy world from scratch without any licensing restrictions or publisher intereference:

 

Dull looking fighter type:

 

Feminism-approved female fighter:

 

>> People complaining that they ain't realistic enough.

[Baudolino05]

So, what's the point? Are you suggesting that you need an unrealistic style for the sake of character design?

There are a couple of guys/gals from from Vampire: Bloodlines that wouldn't agree

 

 

 

[The Sharmat]

You actually raise a point, but I suppose it would be more apt to compare the character designs to Baldur's Gate or Neverwinter Nights. Planescape was already a very surreal setting before Black Isle ever got to it.

 

Even then, these are the first two characters shown. There were some more creative party members in the games mentioned above. One-of-Many, anyone?

[TrashMan]

 

Work under restrictions from licensing and publisher:

 

 

So...what's exactly so awesome about those concepts?

 

Absolutely nothing.

They are weird and "diffeent" but the novelty wears out in 5 minutes.

[Karranthain]

In a world were oversized, spiky pauldrons and greatswords the size of a house are a norm, even dull fighters make for a nice change

 

And, as it has been pointed out by The Sharmat, it isn't exactly fair to compare any design from Planescape to PE. It'd be like comparing characters from the Wire and Twin Peaks

[Baudolino05]

Work under restrictions from licensing and publisher:

 

 

So...what's exactly so awesome about those concepts?

 

Absolutely nothing.

They are weird and "diffeent" but the novelty wears out in 5 minutes.

 

I would say everything, starting from the concept and finishing with the execution, but...it's Planescape, a setting born to make incoherence consistent,

This is not the point, anyway: the point is you can have an equally interesting character with a 100% realistic style...

[Aedelric]

Well, we know nothing about Edair and Cadegund, beyond their appearance and appearances can be deceptive, what makes a fun/unique character is not merely what meets the eyes.

 

The concept art for the armour and weapons looks spot on, high fantasy with a touch of realism I think they are doing well at holding their ground with the whole Icewind Dale art direction.

[The Sharmat]

They are weird and "diffeent" but the novelty wears out in 5 minutes.

Have you played the game in question? Though I suppose as always it's a matter of taste.

[IchigoRXC]

I don't think the Novelty of a floating talking skull wise cracking and biting people ever got old for me. Still a child at 25, these things still amuse me no end.

[obyknven]

Now it's male boobs armor thread

Five Plate Hinged Chahar-Ai-Ne

 

Armour of this this type is often decorated with embossed pectorals and sometimes with other embossed designs (sometimes at the same time). On an armour in Poland (originally given by the Shah of Persia to the Polish king) these embossed designs are in the shape of suns (one smiling sun centered on each of the five plates). Additionally, the tops of the front and back plates are often either round or cut into a "three-lobed", or "five-lobed" shape (front and back being generally of the same shape).

This armour remained popular in Persia and India into the nineteenth century. As mentioned above, it is also to be found in the collections of Eastern European potentates, generally as a gift from an Asian ruler.

 

 

12th Century Steppes Warrior

 

Kipchak or Pecheneg of the Russian Steppes area.

The reconstruction is a composite from several statuetes. Most wear no visible armour other than the Brassier and a cap helmet. It has been suggested that maile or lamellar was worn underneath the tunic (one figure wears what may be a lamellar girdle covering only the front of the torso).

[Katrar]

So what have we seen here. A group of people who vomit at the sight of a bit of boob. Who apparently think PS:T was uninspiring and dull. Who apparently think a fantasy roleplaying game is an appropriate place to wage their slice of the culture war. I don't care one way or another, OE could go full on Frazetta naked-Conan in chosen art style and I'd play their game. They could go full on Norman-Amish androgynous warrior universe and I'd play their game. But, because of all of this fake outrage, I'm SERIOUSLY hoping that in this original setting, clothing of any type has not been invented and all you culture warriors have dozens of hours of both male and female butts and boobs to look forward to. That would be your just rewards for mucking up this fantasy-inspired landscape, with your modern PC sensibilities.

[obyknven]

Male Mirror armour from China

 

Another male boob armor

[Amentep]

So what have we seen here. A group of people who vomit at the sight of a bit of boob. Who apparently think PS:T was uninspiring and dull. Who apparently think a fantasy roleplaying game is an appropriate place to wage their slice of the culture war. I don't care one way or another, OE could go full on Frazetta naked-Conan in chosen art style and I'd play their game. They could go full on Norman-Amish androgynous warrior universe and I'd play their game. But, because of all of this fake outrage, I'm SERIOUSLY hoping that in this original setting, clothing of any type has not been invented and all you culture warriors have dozens of hours of both male and female butts and boobs to look forward to. That would be your just rewards for mucking up this fantasy-inspired landscape, with your modern PC sensibilities.

 

While I'm certain there are some people are against armor "cut outs" because of prudishness, I'd say most people arguing for realistic armor are actually working from the idea that armor that doesn't cover more than a 1/5 of your body isn't armor, its decoration.

 

I'm not against sexy clothes or even decorative garments made of chain or plate. But realistically unless they're forming a magic barrier around your character, they really shouldn't have any effect on your ability to deflect or withstand a blow.

[Vargr Raekr]

I was redirected here from the boob plate thread, locked while I was reading it.

 

One quick note about the concept art of the woman with the musket rifle: note how her chest plate tapers to a point right at her navel. If she is forced to bend double suddenly, she'll commit hara kiri on her own armour.

 

Another of the images does that thing where they put armour on the hips, but not the pelvis or buttock region, on half a dozen character designs. Ow.

 

What I hope happens, however, is that the developers do not burn as much energy as we have in whether or not to uphold or subvert the tropes of creating over the top ornate, impractical, and/or sexualized armour designs for their game. I have my own opinions - that something designed to keep you from getting killed should look like it can do its job - but I would really like to address something else.

 

I would like to see the developers do is concentrate on being creative rather than listening to all of us, and allow their own horse sense to guide their design choices.

 

Take a topic as mundane as horse barding:

 

 

 

 

This is a fanmade character design. As this image was intended for the "boob armour" thread, this is a mare. Specifically, a sentient pegasus, with strong bat features, wearing the ceremonial armour of her royal guard order. That's not something you see every day. The armour design is striking, and identical to the series cannonical stallion version, aside from being refitted to a mare's body (they're thinner). Her design purpose was not to titillate human viewers, but rather to impress.

 

The character models in this series are not as impressive from the front, so here is an image of the same character from the flank:

 

 

 

That's her on the right, this time in her helmet, and with two stallion ponies from a different guard branch. By the way, if Obsidian is still taking suggestions on weapons; electrified ninja claws, please. If you had told me a year ago that I would be recommending cute armoured pony designs to the guys who made Planescape: Torment, I would have thought you a barmy sod rattling your bone box after too much bub. But this artist took an idea that should have been too ridiculous to work, and made it work.

 

I only really have two complaints. One, the horse barding is still based on real world horse barding, and is better at deflecting attacks that a mounted human rider might make on a horse. This would not be a critical design choice in a world without humans. Secondly, the pegasus in the middle is holding a spear without magic or hands. Still more realistic than wearing an injury magnet of a skin tight breastplate. The night guard mare's armour is open on the side, but she'll need the wing room to fly.

 

This design looks effective. You could beat on Mr. Spear all day without fazing him, by the looks of his armour. It is evocative of the character's class and role: for instance the unicorn's glowing helmet and saddle blanket / cape give him a very different feel from the others. The female of the group is not ridiculously under-clothed or under-armoured in order to appeal to the libidos of an audience from a different species.

 

And we got all this from one fan artist working with a show designed for little girls, and he managed to make a ton of the right decisions without even going off character model!

 

This is what I hope the developers at Obsidian do: create evocative armour designs that balance imagination with function while ignoring the libidos of their target demographic. Ignore us. And yes, I get the irony.

 

PS edited the size of the images to tell my tale uninterrupted.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Vargr Raekr

[NOK222]

While I'm certain there are some people are against armor "cut outs" because of prudishness, I'd say most people arguing for realistic armor are actually working from the idea that armor that doesn't cover more than a 1/5 of your body isn't armor, its decoration.

 

This, in a ****ing nutshell. Nobody is making a case against sexyness of fan service, but dear god the justifications some of you are putting in for boob armor and chainmail bikinis is infantile and ridiculous.

[Katrar]

Nobody is actually arguing for boob mail, but what's clear as day is many of the people "in the middle" are actually defending the prudish notion that there is NEVER a moment when a design team "goes sexy" that works, is appropriate, or in any way OK. Many excellent games, both crpg and tabletop of days past, have made art decisions that stray from "is this armor 100% functional" in order to convey an artistic, stylistic look of a different sort.

 

What is infantile and ridiculous is the assertion that people wanting to preserve the art team's capacity to do their jobs without having to worry about what a bunch of "functionality prudes" think, is somehow infantile and ridiculous. lol

[Tale]

what's clear as day is many of the people "in the middle" are actually defending the prudish notion that there is NEVER a moment when a design team "goes sexy" that works, is appropriate, or in any way OK.

I haven't seen many posts like that. Having it on casual outfits, mage clothing, even some instances of leather armor, and especially characters who are streetwalkers, or just have some other motive for seeking attraction, those all make sense and I haven't seen much against it.

 

I'm mainly seeing it against plate armor. Which is where the question of practicality is most relevant.

[Echopeus]

In armor plating and battle, the key factor is functionality.... a sword or arrow solves all inferior product

[Katrar]

Plate armor is not a uniform mode of protection. Greek and Roman cuirasses ended well short of the navel. With similar length undergarment it would easily expose a midriff, and that's real armor that was used by thousands of real soldiers in antiquity. Now, they didn't actually expose their midriffs (that I'm aware of), and women were never a part of the equation... but...

Edited October 2, 2012 by Katrar

[obyknven]

While I'm certain there are some people are against armor "cut outs" because of prudishness, I'd say most people arguing for realistic armor are actually working from the idea that armor that doesn't cover more than a 1/5 of your body isn't armor, its decoration.

 

I'm not against sexy clothes or even decorative garments made of chain or plate. But realistically unless they're forming a magic barrier around your character, they really shouldn't have any effect on your ability to deflect or withstand a blow.

This is wrong. In real world Armor evolutionize from fullplate to lighter Landsknecht armor, from Landsknecht armor to Cuirass covering only Torso. Armor covering whole body is stupid idea.

[Karranthain]

but what's clear as day is many of the people "in the middle" are actually defending the prudish notion that there is NEVER a moment when a design team "goes sexy" that works, is appropriate, or in any way OK.

 

Hello there, strawman.

[Amentep]

While I'm certain there are some people are against armor "cut outs" because of prudishness, I'd say most people arguing for realistic armor are actually working from the idea that armor that doesn't cover more than a 1/5 of your body isn't armor, its decoration.

 

I'm not against sexy clothes or even decorative garments made of chain or plate. But realistically unless they're forming a magic barrier around your character, they really shouldn't have any effect on your ability to deflect or withstand a blow.

This is wrong. In real world Armor evolutionize from fullplate to lighter Landsknecht armor, from Landsknecht armor to Cuirass covering only Torso. Armor covering whole body is stupid idea.

 

I recall - and I'm not an expert - that real world armors became lighter and more torso centric because mobility became more important as artillery use rose and close combat became less favored due to that. In that light it makes sense that armies would need to be more mobile and switch to lighter armors that left arms and legs mobility.

 

That doesn't change the fact that if my armor on my chests covers only my nipples, a blow to my chest - from a sword, from a pike, from a gun - isn't going to be stopped by my "protection", therefore the idea that it is armor that provides protection (unless its magical) doesn't follow.

Edited October 2, 2012 by Amentep

[lightmaguz]

Work under restrictions from licensing and publisher:

 

 

So...what's exactly so awesome about those concepts?

 

Absolutely nothing.

They are weird and "diffeent" but the novelty wears out in 5 minutes.

 

 

I take pity in the fact you clearly didn't play Torment and if you did I pity you even more for not being able to appreciate it's concepts, themes and humour.