Dragon Age 2

[entrerix]

2- The Awakenings-style companion interaction, rather than how interaction with your companions worked in Origins. I didn't like the fact you could only really initiate conversations with your companions in their "home base", and only when they wanted you to. In Origins, it was nice to be able to interact with them whenever you wanted, and could learn stuff about them at any time.

 

 

reading this makes me ache for the kind of character interaction found in planescape torment. Now that was a party of characters that grew to really mean something by the end.

[Monte Carlo]

The tragedy in all this is that Bio really, really rate their writing. They think it's become the primary motivation for people buying their games (which mebbe for a significant proportion of their girlie new Twilight-adoring fanbase might indeed be the case) as opposed to the gameplay.

 

Yet they can't come up with a compelling or original villain.

 

In the Ying and Yang of RPGs the gameplay mechanics and plot / storytelling have a complex relationship and one can carry the other... up to a point. If Bio think that they can cleverly play off the gameplay due to their superb storytelling skillz they need to go and brew up a big hot mug of reality and take a glug!

[Tale]

I actually find their writing to be fine. It's their DM'ing that's atrocious. They could use a more interesting antagonist, but that's not the bulk of what I consider good or bad writing.

[Monte Carlo]

I actually find their writing to be fine. It's their DM'ing that's atrocious. They could use a more interesting antagonist, but that's not the bulk of what I consider good or bad writing.

 

That's quite an interesting take on it, except I think their writing is occasionally good, often OK and sometimes meh.

[Tigranes]

It's quite strange, really. I've been a strong proponent of the Biowriting = Mediocre Soap Opera argument, but recently I've been thinking more and more that in many ways, you can see what its defenders are talking about. When you're in there playing their games, a lot of the times, perhaps 50%, their writing and, say, obsidian's writing is hard to tell from each other. I mean, there are only so many ways you can say "Rescue my daughter", and to Bio's credit they definitely have their moments.

 

I think the real difference is not just a writing difference, but it comes hand in hand with things like their plot design (especially which parts of the plot are exposed to the player and how), dialogue design (which choices, when, how), and with other gameplay elements tied to writing (e.g. character romances). The main reason I appreciate BIS/Obsid writing so much is that there are nearly always moments when you are really, really excited by the navigation of the dialogue tree itself (something they arguably pushed to the maximum in Alpha Protocol, if it worked for you) - really gripped by what they might say next and really torn between the choices. And it wasn't always just because of the quality of the lines, it was always tied in with the position those dialogues had in the plot (PS:T 3 incarnations talk, Myrkul talk), how the choices were set up (Ravel, Master...), sometimes how they'd react to things you'd done outside that dialogue.

 

It is cool to hear from some people that DA2 did have some such exciting moments, though, and i hope they get any credit due on that so they keep working in that direction.

[Tale]

I did say "fine." It's acceptable enough to not hinder my enjoyment in itself.

 

My comment on DMing is my new reaction to Dragon Age 2. It displays a readiness to completely ignore player choice in order to promote the author's intended plot as is. Leliana's back, regardless of whether or not she died. Sister Petrice calls out that you won't get to kill her , when the only reason we can't is we have no ability to attack in the middle of a cutscene as people walk right by you. It's all the frustrations of dealing with a DM's favorite NPC with none of the relief of sneaking out of his apartment with extra bottles of beer.

 

It's not all bad, I'm cherrypicking negativity here. Isabela and Fenris are characters you never even have to meet, for example. However, Act 3 plays But Thou Must as if it's a running gag. You're forced to destroy the only reasonable people in the entire game because the plot won't progress until you do.

[Monte Carlo]

My comment on DMing is my new reaction to Dragon Age 2. It displays a readiness to completely ignore player choice in order to promote the author's intended plot as is. Leliana's back, regardless of whether or not she died. It's all the frustrations of dealing with a DM's favorite NPC with none of the relief of sneaking out of his apartment with extra bottles of beer.

 

It's called 'deus ex machina' DMing in pen and paper and it's in DMing 101 that you try to avoid it. LOL. Dave Gaider and Co. are so in love with their creations that you are only the fee-paying carbon based lifeform attached to their digital novel.

[Tale]

I just really would have liked to kill Petrice. And when Act 2 comes along, if Sister "I'm totally a different character see I have black hair" Betrice shows up, I'd be more accepting. The art of DMing is, at its core, all about filing the serial numbers off and hoping nobody looks too closely.

Edited March 22, 2011 by Tale

[RPGmasterBoo]

It's quite strange, really. I've been a strong proponent of the Biowriting = Mediocre Soap Opera argument, but recently I've been thinking more and more that in many ways, you can see what its defenders are talking about. When you're in there playing their games, a lot of the times, perhaps 50%, their writing and, say, obsidian's writing is hard to tell from each other. I mean, there are only so many ways you can say "Rescue my daughter", and to Bio's credit they definitely have their moments.

 

I think the real difference is not just a writing difference, but it comes hand in hand with things like their plot design (especially which parts of the plot are exposed to the player and how), dialogue design (which choices, when, how), and with other gameplay elements tied to writing (e.g. character romances). The main reason I appreciate BIS/Obsid writing so much is that there are nearly always moments when you are really, really excited by the navigation of the dialogue tree itself (something they arguably pushed to the maximum in Alpha Protocol, if it worked for you) - really gripped by what they might say next and really torn between the choices. And it wasn't always just because of the quality of the lines, it was always tied in with the position those dialogues had in the plot (PS:T 3 incarnations talk, Myrkul talk), how the choices were set up (Ravel, Master...), sometimes how they'd react to things you'd done outside that dialogue.

 

It is cool to hear from some people that DA2 did have some such exciting moments, though, and i hope they get any credit due on that so they keep working in that direction.

 

The few good Obsidian games have superior writing to Bioware's. Well, actually, Planescape Torment just has flat out better writing than anything else while the other stuff is just decent (or very good, if you're judging by game standards).

 

....

 

Anyway, the general consensus amongst my RPG addicted pals is that DA2 is "garbage to average". One friend even jokingly referred to it as a "homosexual date sim" because every possible male character hit on him. Since these guys are much easier to satisfy than I am, and tend to think well of Bioware - I obviously need not waste time on it.

 

Btw apparently a Bioware employee wrote an overwhelmingly positive review for Dragon Age 2 at some game site or other, while posing as a journalist. Major scandal of some sort or other. I don't know the details.

 

Actually: http://www.escapistmagazine.com/news/view/...Scandal-UPDATED

 

Pathetic.

Edited March 22, 2011 by RPGmasterBoo

[Volourn]

"One friend even jokingly referred to it as a "homosexual date sim" because every possible male character hit on him."

 

Your friend is lying.

 

 

"Btw apparently a Bioware employee wrote an overwhelmingly positive review for Dragon Age 2 at some game site or other, while posing as a journalist"

 

Is this the BIo employee who gave the game a 10 on metacritics as a user review? If so, that's not 'posing as a journalist'. L0LZ

[Hurlshort]

So I've just barely started Dragon Age 2, but one of the first parts of the game bothered me. First off, this isn't a spoiler because it is literally the second thing that happens in the game.

 

I'm trying to get into Kirkwall. There is a guard telling me about why the town is closed, and he says a ship will be arranged to get us back to Ferelden eventually. There is a group of deserters nearby who are also pretty upset about this. We make a bit of a stink about us having family in Kirkwall and the guard says they might be able to get a hold of our family and find a way for us to get in. This is where the game goes crazy...

 

The deserters go nuts because we might get in, and attack the city guards. There are so many things wrong with this whole scenario.

 

1. These guys escaped Fereldan by deserting against the darkspawn invasion, are they really going to take on a fortress of enemies?

2. There wasn't any real sign that they were being mistreated, they weren't supposedly starving or anything like that. They were even promised passage on a boat, granted it was back to Fereldan. But is the city of Kirkwall the only place in the entire world?

3. I had to kill these guys, and it was literally treated like I just cleaned out rats from a cellar. We couldn't get them to surrender or something? It just sets an odd tone, like it's no big deal to go around killing folks. I guess I'm spoiled by games that make this stuff somewhat meaningful.

3.

[Starwars]

Let me just say that you better be prepared to see a *lot* of weird internal "logic" like that in the game. It's not one of the game's strenghts, that's for sure.

[RPGmasterBoo]

Its called "cutting costs" and "rushed development". Also: wankery and laziness.

Edited March 22, 2011 by RPGmasterBoo

[Hurlshort]

I'm just bummed. I'm a rather big fan of the DA universe. I read both books and though the first one was great and the second was decent. I thought DA1 was a solid game, although I wasn't a fan of the wardens. I had a bit of trouble with the expansion, but I got through it and thought it wrapped up the second book well. But I was really looking forward to DA2 as a move away from all the Warden depressing stuff, and so far it hasn't captured my attention at all.

[Monte Carlo]

I'm just bummed. I'm a rather big fan of the DA universe. I read both books and though the first one was great and the second was decent. I thought DA1 was a solid game, although I wasn't a fan of the wardens. I had a bit of trouble with the expansion, but I got through it and thought it wrapped up the second book well. But I was really looking forward to DA2 as a move away from all the Warden depressing stuff, and so far it hasn't captured my attention at all.

 

Soccer moms, romance fans, casual console gamers and folks who used to play Farmville love it to bits, though!

[GreasyDogMeat]

So I've just barely started Dragon Age 2, but one of the first parts of the game bothered me. First off, this isn't a spoiler because it is literally the second thing that happens in the game.

 

I'm trying to get into Kirkwall. There is a guard telling me about why the town is closed, and he says a ship will be arranged to get us back to Ferelden eventually. There is a group of deserters nearby who are also pretty upset about this. We make a bit of a stink about us having family in Kirkwall and the guard says they might be able to get a hold of our family and find a way for us to get in. This is where the game goes crazy...

 

The deserters go nuts because we might get in, and attack the city guards. There are so many things wrong with this whole scenario.

 

1. These guys escaped Fereldan by deserting against the darkspawn invasion, are they really going to take on a fortress of enemies?

2. There wasn't any real sign that they were being mistreated, they weren't supposedly starving or anything like that. They were even promised passage on a boat, granted it was back to Fereldan. But is the city of Kirkwall the only place in the entire world?

3. I had to kill these guys, and it was literally treated like I just cleaned out rats from a cellar. We couldn't get them to surrender or something? It just sets an odd tone, like it's no big deal to go around killing folks. I guess I'm spoiled by games that make this stuff somewhat meaningful.

3.

That's just the start. Later in the game

groups of Templars and mages will attack you for no reason, even if you have sided with their faction. In particular, the random groups of Templars attacking you is almost equivelant to cops drawing their guns and opening fire on you for no reason than because they are bored.

 

[sorophx]

I had to kill these guys

that's the whole game in a nutshell as far as I know instances where you can avoid fighting are very few.

[Tale]

That's just the start. Later in the game

groups of Templars and mages will attack you for no reason, even if you have sided with their faction. In particular, the random groups of Templars attacking you is almost equivelant to cops drawing their guns and opening fire on you for no reason than because they are bored.

Act 3 in a nutshell.

 

 

Antagonist 1: This nonsense must stop!

Hawke: I agree!

Antagonist 1: He agrees with us! Kill him!

Hawke: You guys suuuuuck.

Antagonist 2: This is total bull****. He's on our side!

Hawke: Finally, some sense.

Antagonist 3: I'M A MONSTER RAWR, KILL HIM

 

Edited March 22, 2011 by Tale

[Malcador]

That's just the start. Later in the game

groups of Templars and mages will attack you for no reason, even if you have sided with their faction. In particular, the random groups of Templars attacking you is almost equivelant to cops drawing their guns and opening fire on you for no reason than because they are bored.

 

 

So the NYPD is in the game? Sweet.

[Niten_Ryu]

The deserters go nuts because we might get in, and attack the city guards.

 

And that was the part there I stopped watching "let's play" video. Even the guy who was doing the video was suprised that not only they attacked guards, but you as well at the same time. You couldn't stay neutral (like in many games where NPC group fight NPC group) nor aid the deserters against the guards and thus discover alternative entrance to the city (ie like in NWN2 where you could work with the guards or work against 'em).

[entrerix]

That's just the start. Later in the game

groups of Templars and mages will attack you for no reason, even if you have sided with their faction. In particular, the random groups of Templars attacking you is almost equivelant to cops drawing their guns and opening fire on you for no reason than because they are bored.

Act 3 in a nutshell.

 

 

Antagonist 1: This nonsense must stop!

Hawke: I agree!

Antagonist 1: He agrees with us! Kill him!

Hawke: You guys suuuuuck.

Antagonist 2: This is total bull****. He's on our side!

Hawke: Finally, some sense.

Antagonist 3: I'M A MONSTER RAWR, KILL HIM

 

 

 

y'know i wasnt really paying much attention to the plot by the time I got here, but yeah, now that you mention it, act 3 made about as much sense as a sock full of nickels with a hole in it.

[GreasyDogMeat]

That's just the start. Later in the game

groups of Templars and mages will attack you for no reason, even if you have sided with their faction. In particular, the random groups of Templars attacking you is almost equivelant to cops drawing their guns and opening fire on you for no reason than because they are bored.

 

 

So the NYPD is in the game? Sweet.

 

What I mean is that

the Templars is a highly trained lawful organization and for them to just attack someone walking down the road is ridiculous. Especially when that someone is the most popular do-gooder in town. This might be an attempt to show that the Templars are taking a bad turn under Meredith, but it comes off as lame when you are assisting the Templars track down blood mages and they are attacking you on sight.

 

Edited March 22, 2011 by GreasyDogMeat

[Raithe]

What I mean is that

the Templars is a highly trained lawful organization and for them to just attack someone walking down the road is ridiculous. Especially when that someone is the most popular do-gooder in town. This might be an attempt to show that the Templars are taking a bad turn under Meredith, but it comes off as lame when you are assisting the Templars track down blood mages and they are attacking you on sight.

 

Ah, but did you ever actually feel that anyone really reacted to you as if you were the most popular do-gooder in town? Apart from a few cut-scene moments that is...

[GreasyDogMeat]

Ah, but did you ever actually feel that anyone really reacted to you as if you were the most popular do-gooder in town? Apart from a few cut-scene moments that is...

They do start mentioning your accomplishments in the later acts. Maybe not lick your feet and worship the ground you walk on the way I would have liked...

[Majek]

Finished second act. Was decent but the main quest felt like reading a book but skipping plenty of pages with dialogues and other plot information. It was just moving too fast, i couldn't really consider anything because i was thrust into a new situation immediately. It really does feel like bad DMing. wanting to tell a story all at once. And then it's already "3 years later" ...