Dragon Age 2

[Tigranes]

Can we keep personal attacks and random judgments down, this is past the level of good-humoured jabs for everyone involved.

 

Move on.

[Malcador]

Pft, you people need to HTFU. But I guess this thread did supply a good bit of amusement.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Malcador

[~Di]

Sorry to interrupt with what is probably old news, but I've just caught up and wondered if one can still pre-order and get the bonus NPC, or if the deadline has passed. Does anyone know? I really, really hate the Bioboards and would rather not go there if there's a choice.

[Labadal]

January 11 2011 was the last day. However, they will release the bonus NPC as DLC.

[Bos_hybrid]

Sorry to interrupt with what is probably old news, but I've just caught up and wondered if one can still pre-order and get the bonus NPC, or if the deadline has passed. Does anyone know? I really, really hate the Bioboards and would rather not go there if there's a choice.

 

I belive it finished January 11, so yeah it's over. However you can still pick it up for $7 when DA2 is released.

[~Di]

Ah. Thanks. I guess I should catch up more often, although I'll admit I'm not too keen on the direction Bio games are taking with all the DLC extras for sale that seem to me they should have been part of the game. DA:O without Shale would have been a real loss, since she was such an interesting character. I foresee a day when the game is released with *all* NPCs available as individual DLCs for $5-$10 bucks apiece.

[mr insomniac]

In some cases that might not be a bad idea.

 

KotOR without Carth, ME without Kaiden -- not that I'm singling out that particular voice actor. It's not his fault his characters are lame -- ME2 without Jacob or Thane, DA:O without Wynne, Oghren or Zevran.

 

Yep, not a bad idea at all.

[Orogun01]

In some cases that might not be a bad idea.

 

KotOR without Carth, ME without Kaiden -- not that I'm singling out that particular voice actor. It's not his fault his characters are lame -- ME2 without Jacob or Thane, DA:O without Wynne, Oghren or Zevran.

 

Yep, not a bad idea at all.

Different tastes, different flavors. You can't ask that a character be removed because you don't like it, although there are some where I may concede that they should be removed. In the end it really depends on how much depth the character has and how much of it comes out in the performance.

[mr insomniac]

In some cases that might not be a bad idea.

 

KotOR without Carth, ME without Kaiden -- not that I'm singling out that particular voice actor. It's not his fault his characters are lame -- ME2 without Jacob or Thane, DA:O without Wynne, Oghren or Zevran.

 

Yep, not a bad idea at all.

Different tastes, different flavors. You can't ask that a character be removed because you don't like it, although there are some where I may concede that they should be removed. In the end it really depends on how much depth the character has and how much of it comes out in the performance.

Of course it's all about different tastes, that's kinda the point. I'm not saying any character should be removed. If they're in the game, fine. However if, when I purchase a game that has a lot of characters with varying degrees of depth, I could choose whether I wanted at least some of those characters in my game... say after watching a non-spoilerific "audition" trailer... then I'm okay with that. I might think it's worth spending $5-10 to try one of these characters out, and then if I don't like them, I can uninstall them for subsequent playthroughs.

[Oblarg]

Carth may have been awful, but Kaiden was fine - much better than Liara, who was absolutely horrid.

 

I didn't get Shale for my playthrough of DA:O. Actually, it wasn't even a playthrough, I lost interest when I reached the endgame because it was just too ****ing bad.

 

This DLC nonsense needs to stop, though. When I buy a game, I expect it to be a complete game, not a game with several elements removed and sold separately.

[Orogun01]

Of course it's all about different tastes, that's kinda the point. I'm not saying any character should be removed. If they're in the game, fine. However if, when I purchase a game that has a lot of characters with varying degrees of depth, I could choose whether I wanted at least some of those characters in my game... say after watching a non-spoilerific "audition" trailer... then I'm okay with that. I might think it's worth spending $5-10 to try one of these characters out, and then if I don't like them, I can uninstall them for subsequent playthroughs.

The thing that I hate about many NPCs is that you get only superficial character, writing only goes so far I guess. You get 2 or 3 good ones and then the rest degenerate into a bunch of archetypal "every adventurer companion" where they just fall back into the basics. When I have to pay for a companion I'm expecting a little bit more than what what an experience modder could release for free, Shale was a good example of that. It easily melded into the game with it's sidequest and dialog, bonus points for being an unique character. But when you get to the ME companion's DLC; well that was just awful. One sidequest and most of the dialog invested into it, they were basically emotional disposable beings whom you helped and never took an interesting in afterward.

Seeing as DA has gone the way of ME in dialog and gameplay i'm afraid that it may be so with the companion DLC.

[Tigranes]

It's only a matter of time before DLCs and mods collide, btw. One day some people will say, "this NPC mod is so much better than the NPC DLC, screw this", and then some men in black will say, "this situation, it is not good."

 

I feel very happy with ignoring any and every DLC until I finish a game and think "I wish I had more content".

[HoonDing]

In some cases that might not be a bad idea.

 

KotOR without Carth, ME without Kaiden -- not that I'm singling out that particular voice actor. It's not his fault his characters are lame -- ME2 without Jacob or Thane, DA:O without Wynne, Oghren or Zevran.

 

Yep, not a bad idea at all.

At least one could directly or indirectly kill most of those characters.

[Hassat Hunter]

It's only a matter of time before DLCs and mods collide, btw. One day some people will say, "this NPC mod is so much better than the NPC DLC, screw this", and then some men in black will say, "this situation, it is not good."

And they scrap modding instead of upping their quality *weeps*.

[Volourn]

"This DLC nonsense needs to stop, though. When I buy a game, I expect it to be a complete game, not a game with several elements removed and sold separately.

"

 

DA in the original packing was a complete. All the DLCs were 100% optional and were not just 'removed'. Think of them as optional addons for cars or optional add ons when you get cable.

 

People whining about DLC are hilarious b/c they don't seem to get the fact that they are 100% opotional. Nobody forces you to purchase thenm, and the game is fine without them.

[Gorgon]

Shale was free with a new purchase, you got a gift certificate with whatever microsoft points he cost. The intent was to make people who bought used copies to pony up.

Edited January 14, 2011 by Gorgon

[Hurlshort]

I didn't necessarily care that they had DLC content ready at release for DA. I did not like the way they handled it though, by having a guy show up in your camp telling you about an exciting adventure, and then asking for your credit card. ME2 handled it way better.

[Hassat Hunter]

Still the point stands they willingly cut out a part of their game to sell it.

 

And apparently now not only to 'new copy buyers' but to give as 'Collector's Edition bonus'...

Well, I look the cat out of the tree for the UCE, just like I did with DA:O. And then buy it if like or not if it turned out the way it seems to go...

[Volourn]

"Still the point stands they willingly cut out a part of their game to sell it."

 

No. And, btw, games have things cut from them ALL THE TIME.

 

Still the point stands that customers willingly choose to buy DLC.

 

Companies are doing nothing wrong. They tell you what they are selling, and you decide if it's worth your money. Period.

 

They owe you nothing else.

[Maria Caliban]

http://www.popmatters.com/pm/post/135348-f...e-with-virtual/

 

I guess I have to give one thing to Bio, they know their audience.

 

That was surprisingly well written.

[Hurlshort]

Still the point stands they willingly cut out a part of their game to sell it.

 

There are a couple issues with this line of thinking. First off, DA is a complete game, without any of the DLC (even the free stuff.) You can play it all the way to the conclusion, they don't ask you to insert more coins to continue the story line.

 

There was likely a specific team working on DLC. This isn't any different than a specific team working on an expansion. The difference is DLC is typically smaller, available faster, cheaper, etc. It can be offered on day one while an expansion obviously would not. Whether it was created after the game was released or not really isn't the point, it was developed to be DLC.

[Oblarg]

Still the point stands they willingly cut out a part of their game to sell it.

 

There are a couple issues with this line of thinking. First off, DA is a complete game, without any of the DLC (even the free stuff.) You can play it all the way to the conclusion, they don't ask you to insert more coins to continue the story line.

 

There was likely a specific team working on DLC. This isn't any different than a specific team working on an expansion. The difference is DLC is typically smaller, available faster, cheaper, etc. It can be offered on day one while an expansion obviously would not. Whether it was created after the game was released or not really isn't the point, it was developed to be DLC.

 

Yes, but you could easily argue that in separating their resources between primary game and DLC they're effectively releasing a product missing parts that would otherwise be standard if they had simply assimilated the DLC team into the primary game.

 

DLC, at its heart, is a way to get people to pay more for a product. There's no way around it - they wouldn't do it otherwise.

[Tale]

Yes, it's a way to get people to pay more. But the contention is whether or not they're delivering you less in the initial offering to make you pay for the more.

 

I'd argue that if they hadn't had the team working on DLC, they would have been working on a different game or simply not employed. It's not cutting stuff out.

[Orchomene]

There is a budget for the game and a budget for the DLC. They could have added automatically the DLC but then the price would have rised. DLC is just a business solution to allow game development with a highest cost and keeping a main part at the market price of a new game.

I sure prefer having a game at normal price and decide if I want more of it with a DLC and more money spent or just don't want more.

It's even better if you end up not really liking the game because you would really be bothered to have paid for both game and DLC.

 

I would even go further with this logic (as seen for some games, like Winter Voices) : buying chapters seperatly at 5 euro each chapter. Thus, if the game becomes boring, you just stop buying the chapters and end with less money spent.

[sorophx]

I would even go further with this logic (as seen for some games, like Winter Voices) : buying chapters seperatly at 5 euro each chapter. Thus, if the game becomes boring, you just stop buying the chapters and end with less money spent.

this is actually a good idea if only for the feedback, this way the devs would know where their game falls through