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Just now, BruceVC said:

I loved the Wire, one of my best shows and I watched the whole series twice

But I dont remember the systemic  racist themes, I am not saying they werent their I just dont remember them but I do remember the violence committed by the gangs around the drugs and the " baddies " like Chris and Marlo...I loved those guys 

If you can summarize what are your examples of the systemic racism in season 4 so I understand the context ?

 

Season 4 is the one about the school system. It shows how the kids are often pushed towards drugs and a life of crime, due to trauma, abuse, peer pressure, a under budgeted school system wholly unprepared to help the students, and quite simply a lack of any good options. There simply isn't a support system in place for too many kids, be it their family, the school, or child services. Children basically need to be really smart, not make a single mistake ever, and be really lucky. If any one of these three factors fails at any point, they are screwed.

 

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I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
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56 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

I read the article. The statement was stupid on his face. The premise that she’s trying to make is also stupid. It’s tantamount to saying “society” made me do it. That is a steaming pile of crap. With the exception of actual mental illness every single one of us is solely responsible for her own actions and attitudes. We all wake up and make a choice. Am I going to be a decent person today or am I going to be a f——-g a———e. Blaming the choices we all make on white supremacy, or racism, or society or whatever is as stupid as it is false.

I think the argument is that, if an individual of a minority race does everything 'right' and still becomes a 'victim' of inequality in institutions (or application of institutional rules), then eventually the minority race is going to learn that they're damned if they do and damned if they don't, so there's no societal incentive for them to abide by society's rules.

One of the simmering tensions seen in some African-American neighborhoods is that what few shops exist in these neighborhoods are typically owned by Asians.  There has been resentment that African-American's are more likely to be denied a business loan, and therefore are incapable of transferring their capital into a business that can then grown the wealth of the family, but the Indian or Pakistani or Korean can, and can do so in their neighborhood.  This resentment can then lead to violence between the two groups, but the resentment is fostered by a system that plays favorites, which one could argue was a systemic inequality (which is, I think, what the article writer is essentially describing as white supremacy)

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I was born and raised in Texas, and went to public school and college here. Yall want to know something I wasn't taught in those educational settings? In addition to reinstating slavery after Mexico had abolished it, the 1836 Texas constitution explicitly forbid "Africans and Indians" from becoming citizens or settling permanently if they were free. Yall think the 1836 project is gonna mention that, or will it be historical revisionism to blame the history of racism in Texas on a few fellas who just decided to be **** just because?

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19 minutes ago, Pidesco said:

 

Season 4 is the one about the school system. It shows how the kids are often pushed towards drugs and a life of crime, due to trauma, abuse, peer pressure, a under budgeted school system wholly unprepared to help the students, and quite simply a lack of any good options. There simply isn't a support system in place for too many kids, be it their family, the school, or child services. Children basically need to be really smart, not make a single mistake ever, and be really lucky. If any one of these three factors fails at any point, they are screwed.

 

Okay I see what you saying.  

In SA and throughout the African continent we have much more poverty and lack of resources than anywhere in the US and some examples of real failures of schools in the public sector. And this doesnt apply to all public sector schools

We also see real successes in poor countries in the education system despite having much less than the USA

And yet we dont see the same culture of gangs or gang violence  that you see in some parts of the US. And obviously we are talking about countries and regions where 80-95 % of the citizens are black  yet  the failures of the school system exist yet not the violence 

So systemic racism doesnt apply so how would you explain that if the reason for the reality of season 4  violence is systemic racism? Why dont we see kids being pushed towards the same violence and drugs in Africa that we see in the USA ?

I dont see the reality of  underfunded schools and lack of opportunities in the USA  in certain  areas as necessarily examples  of systemic  racism as it exists in many African countries.  I see this as a local or societal failures and that can lead to choices and gangsterism becoming an option 

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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38 minutes ago, Amentep said:

I think the argument is that, if an individual of a minority race does everything 'right' and still becomes a 'victim' of inequality in institutions (or application of institutional rules), then eventually the minority race is going to learn that they're damned if they do and damned if they don't, so there's no societal incentive for them to abide by society's rules.

One of the simmering tensions seen in some African-American neighborhoods is that what few shops exist in these neighborhoods are typically owned by Asians.  There has been resentment that African-American's are more likely to be denied a business loan, and therefore are incapable of transferring their capital into a business that can then grown the wealth of the family, but the Indian or Pakistani or Korean can, and can do so in their neighborhood.  This resentment can then lead to violence between the two groups, but the resentment is fostered by a system that plays favorites, which one could argue was a systemic inequality (which is, I think, what the article writer is essentially describing as white supremacy)

Are Asians given preferential loans in the US as opposed to black people based on race ?. Because banks normally  grants loans based on a risk profile and factors like your current debt, revenue stream and expenses matter but  not your race

So if Indians or Koreans are getting finance I doubt its because of their race because that would be blatantly racist ?

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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33 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Okay I see what you saying.  

In SA and throughout the African continent we have much more poverty and lack of resources than anywhere in the US and some examples of real failures of schools in the public sector. And this doesnt apply to all public sector schools

We also see real successes in poor countries in the education system despite having much less than the USA

And yet we dont see the same culture of gangs or gang violence  that you see in some parts of the US. And obviously we are talking about countries and regions where 80-95 % of the citizens are black  yet  the failures of the school system exist yet not the violence 

So systemic racism doesnt apply so how would you explain that if the reason for the reality of season 4  violence is systemic racism? Why dont we see kids being pushed towards the same violence and drugs in Africa that we see in the USA ?

I dont see the reality of  underfunded schools and lack of opportunities in the USA  in certain  areas as necessarily examples  of systemic  racism as it exists in many African countries.  I see this as a local or societal failures and that can lead to choices and gangsterism becoming an option 

 

 

https://issafrica.org/amp/iss-today/why-is-crime-and-violence-so-high-in-south-africa

https://issafrica.org/amp/iss-today/the-business-of-dis-organised-crime-in-south-africa

"My hovercraft is full of eels!" - Hungarian tourist
I am Dan Quayle of the Romans.
I want to tattoo a map of the Netherlands on my nether lands.
Heja Sverige!!
Everyone should cuffawkle more.
The wrench is your friend. :bat:

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36 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

Are Asians given preferential loans in the US as opposed to black people based on race ?. Because banks normally  grants loans based on a risk profile and factors like your current debt, revenue stream and expenses matter but  not your race

So if Indians or Koreans are getting finance I doubt its because of their race because that would be blatantly racist ?

The problem is that the "on paper" neutral race-blind review of income/assets vs default rates vs risk of similar businesses vs location & overhead vs etc. isn't going to take into account a history of racist laws or application of laws have resulted in lower asset/higher debt accumulation within large parts of African-American communities (not all, obviously, there are plenty of successful business people who are of African descent).  

Just one example could be to look at the effect of redline practices that indicated where an African-American could buy a house into the 50s and 60s in most areas - they were usually in lower valued areas, which means that owning the house generated less assets for the family over time.  Now, unless the area is undergoing gentrification, the house is probably still not going to be worth as much as a house in another area from the same time period, which in turn means its value as an asset towards a loan now for the inheriting family member as compared to a similar house / lot from the same period in a neighborhood that was not historically a part of redline prohibitions is much less.*

That's just one thing, and that's assuming house ownership was even a part of the initial equation.  

*while anecdotal evidence, I grew up in a neighborhood that went from majority white to majority black while I was in elementary school after redline practices were ended locally (as I understand it).  The value of houses where I grew up are greater than houses in traditionally and historically black neighborhoods pror to the end of redline practices (excepting those that are undergoing gentrification and a few areas that have always been an area to live in town) and are less than those in areas of the county that did not transition away from majority white neighborhoods for similar sq.ft house on similar acreage.

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1 minute ago, Pidesco said:

What has that got to do with systemic racism as the reason? Your actually supporting my point. Yes we have violence and high levels of crime in SA but it has nothing to do with racism. Apartheid ended in 1994 and Apartheid legacy is real but that is not reason for the crime 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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42 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Defectors from adversarial nations have been slamming "woke" US schools for decades!

If an American defected to say, China they would probably also slam "woke" American schools for teaching kids to be chaotic and harmful to the stability of society.

"Woke" US schools and institutions are a universal punching bag for agendas across the board.

Edited by ComradeYellow

"America would be unrecognizable if it had ordered the separation of corporation and state like it orders separation of church and state."

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While we're on the topic of "wokeness", there is now a rainbow colored sidewalk in my hometown, which is I guess a small step forward towards triggering the rednecks! :lol:

Spoiler

Rainbow-Crosswalk-San-Antonio.PNG

Something like that but horizontal not vertical, if the screen on my phone wasn't cracked I would take a picture but I think this is sufficient demonstrative purposes.

Edited by ComradeYellow
I suck at spelling AND proofreading!

"America would be unrecognizable if it had ordered the separation of corporation and state like it orders separation of church and state."

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Seems Putin looked better today than Biden in the pressers, and american journos made fools of themselves a few times. I chuckled a bit at the last Putin answer to the Canadian based journo. Smart guy he is, no doubt about it. 

Biden's conf was more timid than most journos would want, and Biden even snapped at one of the CNN lunatics, only to later smudge it all over with being a wise guy in that situation. 

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1 hour ago, Guard Dog said:

Seems a bit too on the nose.

Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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It really should be titled "North Korean defector goes to a private liberal-arts college and is amazed the US government doesn't force them to teach a specific ideology".

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Thinking about it, Engineering will be the last discipline to go "woke".  Not for any other reason than they'd have to stop being sadists first.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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12 minutes ago, Amentep said:

It really should be titled "North Korean defector goes to a private liberal-arts college and is amazed the US government doesn't force them to teach a specific ideology".

Hah, that was what I was thinking. She attended one college and is assuming that they are run exactly the same. It's kind of a big country. Your mileage may vary dramatically.

Heck, UC Berkeley is a state school and it is still going to be dramatically different than UCLA.

Edited by Hurlsnot
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8 minutes ago, Malcador said:

Thinking about it, Engineering will be the last discipline to go "woke".  Not for any other reason than they'd have to stop being sadists first.

LOL Plus actually getting the correct answer to a math problem is kind of important

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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This again?

this isn’t about discrimination. The Plaintiff in this case is a miserable a——-e who went looking for trouble. 

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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16 hours ago, Gorth said:

Did they celebrate because they thought Trump would be anything other than a loose cannon, bringing down a long time rival?

Nothing more than Putin and Hillary really not liking each other and Trump using softer rhetoric.

Maybe also a bit of rhetorical payback for all the self congratulation from the US when they got that incompetent sot Yeltsin re-elected in 1996 and he promptly continued running Russia into the ground, though Trump was nowhere near Yeltsin levels of incompetence.

1 hour ago, Darkpriest said:

Seems Putin looked better today than Biden in the pressers, and american journos made fools of themselves a few times. I chuckled a bit at the last Putin answer to the Canadian based journo. Smart guy he is, no doubt about it. 

Biden's conf was more timid than most journos would want, and Biden even snapped at one of the CNN lunatics, only to later smudge it all over with being a wise guy in that situation. 

It is rather amusing seeing western journos who had worked themselves into a frenzy realise that Biden isn't going to try and german suplex Putin through a table or whatever they seemed to be expecting him to do.

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1 hour ago, Zoraptor said:

Maybe also a bit of rhetorical payback for all the self congratulation from the US when they got that incompetent sot Yeltsin re-elected in 1996 and he promptly continued running Russia into the ground

Yeah that was political strategy thing from the Clinton camp, as he couldn't be seen as the "President who re-lost the Cold War" if the Communists retook power, which was a very real possibility, but perhaps maybe not because Gorbachev was about as inept a Communist as Yeltsin a liberal, so Russia got a raw deal in that time period which seems like ancient history now, whilst the U.S. was flourishing on the dogma of wealth and individualism.

1 hour ago, Malcador said:

Thinking about it, Engineering will be the last discipline to go "woke".  Not for any other reason than they'd have to stop being sadists first.

I think as competition between China and the U.S. heats up, there will be less focus on liberal arts and more focus on STEM fields that promote technological innovation.

The U.S. needs an adversary or else they just get silly and contradictory.

Edited by ComradeYellow
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"America would be unrecognizable if it had ordered the separation of corporation and state like it orders separation of church and state."

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2 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

Seems Putin looked better today than Biden in the pressers, and american journos made fools of themselves a few times. I chuckled a bit at the last Putin answer to the Canadian based journo. Smart guy he is, no doubt about it. 

Biden's conf was more timid than most journos would want, and Biden even snapped at one of the CNN lunatics, only to later smudge it all over with being a wise guy in that situation. 

Roughing up a few journalists will tend to make the autocrat look good. At least on paper.

"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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