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The all things Political Topic - For who in this dark, dream-haunted Land dares Resist the righteous flame of Wrath And Doom themselves to despair and death?


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5 hours ago, rjshae said:

Roughing up a few journalists will tend to make the autocrat look good. At least on paper.

It was not roughing up, it was exploiting being stupid and asking stupid questions or rather saying a thesis and expecting Putin to tumble... 

You don't run a country like Russia for this many years to be taken to some emotionally charged liberal arts graduates and lose face in a discourse... But those journos are plainly too stupid to understand their actions and questions are idiotic. For people like Putin you need to be calm, steady and run them with numbers and events and let them make a mistake or slip something through when they must construct their own thesis. Latch onto inconsistencies, not shout things out. Outrage culture may work in the US, but it doesn't work even south of the US border. 

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5 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

It was not roughing up, it was exploiting being stupid and asking stupid questions or rather saying a thesis and expecting Putin to tumble... 

You don't run a country like Russia for this many years to be taken to some emotionally charged liberal arts graduates and lose face in a discourse... But those journos are plainly too stupid to understand their actions and questions are idiotic. For people like Putin you need to be calm, steady and run them with numbers and events and let them make a mistake or slip something through when they must construct their own thesis. Latch onto inconsistencies, not shout things out. Outrage culture may work in the US, but it doesn't work even south of the US border. 

I must say this post made me laugh and has some truth it :lol:

I am concerned with the idea that liberal arts students  and outrage culture represent the USA and its intellectual and political influence 

But they dont to be honest, Kaitlyn Collins is very insightful and bright and carries herself very well.  She is not one of the " woke " journalists

I know you are talking about the Putin interview but she was their at Geneva  and was the journalist that Biden " shouted " at 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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16 hours ago, ShadySands said:

Johnny Olives hit on some of that stuff

 

am gonna admit the first name we thought o' when question o' famous asian-americans arose, purposeful excluding actors, were fred korematsu. we realized he were not famous to most, so we paused to reflect...

connie chung were next name which came to mind. no joke. 

michio kaku were number three for us and also not too obvious, but as a teenager he tried to build a death ray in his parent's garage and while he didn't manage to create antimatter, he did get scholarships to the most prestigious universities in the nation.

daniel inouye deserved to be ahead o' connie chung. kinda feel bad he were not our number one. 

as for the @Darkpriest predictable putin fanboi post

if you wanna find textbook examples o' whatboutism and deflection, then putin is a winner. some o' our boardies who indulge in such tactics to a comic degree no doubt found the putin response to be an award worthy performance. otherwise, this response made the putin presser cringeworthy.

but serious, connie chung? early 2000s were last we recall seeing her do news and yet she were first to come to mind.

HA! Good Fun!

ps trump is still angry at cancer causing windmills

Edited by Gromnir
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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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19 minutes ago, Gromnir said:

am gonna admit the first name we thought o' when question o' famous asian-americans arose, purposeful excluding actors, were fred korematsu. we realized he were not famous to most, so we paused to reflect...

connie chung were next name which came to mind. no joke. 

michio kaku were number three for us and also not too obvious, but as a teenager he tried to build a death ray in his parent's garage and while he didn't manage to create antimatter, he did get scholarships to the most prestigious universities in the nation.

daniel inouye deserved to be ahead o' connie chung. kinda feel bad he were not our number one. 

as for the @Darkpriest predictable putin fanboi post

if you wanna find textbook examples o' whatboutism and deflection, then putin is a winner. some o' our boardies who indulge in such tactics to a comic degree no doubt found the putin response to be an award worthy performance. otherwise, this response made the putin presser cringeworthy.

but serious, connie chung? early 2000s were last we recall seeing her do news and yet she were first to come to mind.

HA! Good Fun!

ps trump is still angry at cancer causing windmills

You right, Putin is the master of whatboutism and deflection. You can also see how uncomfortable he is with journalists asking legitimate questions about the targeting and deaths of opposition party members

 But also talk about a false equivalence, he is comparing the Capitol violence and people being prosecuted with the Russian clamp down on the media and people like Navalny being poisoned.

He was asking  " why are they being arrested in the USA after the attack on the Capitol " .....that is obvious. They broke numerous laws and stormed  a government building and Capitol Police were  attacked by members of the mob in an attempt to overturn a legitimate election result. Their should be no confusion why people have been arrested ?

I would loved to have asked him " what would happen in Russia if  a mob stormed the Kremlin and threatened to kill Russian politicians " ......I can tell you what would have happened. The security forces protecting the Kremlin would have used live ammunition  and killed anyone in the crowd wanting to change the normal Russian election results 

 

 

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"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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https://www.iol.co.za/sundayindependent/news/sa-weapons-export-to-saudi-arabia-uae-may-be-breaking-international-law-82029b5c-7e82-41d8-8ed3-1dec8273a8dd

The US has also been accused of fueling wars and blamed for conflicts because of the sales of weapons to the likes of Israel and Saudi Arabia. Now within SA the same accusation has been made towards SA arms companies for selling weapons to Saudi Arabia and UAE

My view on this has never changed but I am interested around what others think. Should we be vilifying and admonishing any company within our borders that sells military hardware to other countries ? I dont understand why for the following reasons 

  • The international arms trade is a legitimate and legal  global industry
  • Basically every country in the world buys military hardware and has a right to buy this hardware
  • If the likes of the US or SA doesnt sell weapons to the Saudis or the Israelis then I can promise you the likes of Russia, China , Germany, UK or France will do it 
  • Its not the sales of weapons that is the issue but the countries involved in conflicts and how governments decide to use them 
  • Their are no international sanctions against Saudi Arabia or Israel that prevent the sales of weapons to these countries so this shouldnt be a legal issue ?

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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https://news.yahoo.com/brazen-theft-san-francisco-pharmacy-152506383.html

This is unbelievable this video and I cannot understand why the security guard didnt intervene?

Im disappointed it happened in California, another example of a basic societal failure to enforce the law where it should have been enforced 

But at least we know why it happened so its okay, clearly this is because of structural racism :p

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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6 hours ago, BruceVC said:

Do you think the article is true, I dont want to overreach. Their are several concerning things she was exposed to that are just biased and inaccurate 

If you read what she experienced I was under the impression that universities are suppose to teach students about critical thinking and to prepare them to work in RL. Thats what the general point was when I was in University but I dont think we have liberal-arts schools in SA ?

I don't doubt the veracity of what she experienced, but my point is that private colleges and universities aren't beholden to the state beyond certain basic requirements (almost entirely fiscal) to meet eligibility for students to receive federal financial aid.  A private institution is beholden to whatever entity backs it (if one still exists) and to whichever accrediting agencies they belong to.  She's surprised they're 'allowed' to be 'anti-American', but that misses the point of...well a lot of things.

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Now for your daily dose of stupid

 

Why the new Velma in Mindy Kaling's 'Scooby-Doo' has so many so upset'

Some are mad she's Asian now. Some are mad she's not gay. Scooby says "Rust ratch the rucking row!"

image.jpeg.7263824c62895145505f3438c984ecb4.jpeg

Or don't. 

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"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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15 minutes ago, Guard Dog said:

Now for your daily dose of stupid

 

Why the new Velma in Mindy Kaling's 'Scooby-Doo' has so many so upset'

Some are mad she's Asian now. Some are mad she's not gay. Scooby says "Rust ratch the rucking row!"

image.jpeg.7263824c62895145505f3438c984ecb4.jpeg

Or don't. 

I can understand some of the resistance to changing the race of certain iconic characters like Spider Man but I cannot see an issue with changing the race of Velma to East Asian, I dont see how that would undermine the show in anyway ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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9 hours ago, Gromnir said:

am gonna admit the first name we thought o' when question o' famous asian-americans arose, purposeful excluding actors, were fred korematsu. we realized he were not famous to most, so we paused to reflect...

connie chung were next name which came to mind. no joke. 

michio kaku were number three for us and also not too obvious, but as a teenager he tried to build a death ray in his parent's garage and while he didn't manage to create antimatter, he did get scholarships to the most prestigious universities in the nation.

That's pretty funny because Kaku was number three on my list as well but being the Trek nerd that I am Takei was number one and Jeremy Lin was number two. I made a top ten list pretty easily but if I had to exclude actors then I would really struggle to get five names.

Free games updated 3/4/21

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4 hours ago, Guard Dog said:

Now for your daily dose of stupid

 

Why the new Velma in Mindy Kaling's 'Scooby-Doo' has so many so upset'

Some are mad she's Asian now. Some are mad she's not gay. Scooby says "Rust ratch the rucking row!"

image.jpeg.7263824c62895145505f3438c984ecb4.jpeg

Or don't. 

"“Well she’s not Velma then is she,” one person tweeted.  “velma’s not real, sis,” another user responded." "

Sums it up.

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Why has elegance found so little following? Elegance has the disadvantage that hard work is needed to achieve it and a good education to appreciate it. - Edsger Wybe Dijkstra

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14 hours ago, Gromnir said:

as for the @Darkpriest predictable putin fanboi post

What's funny is most Putin fanbois aren't even Russian.

A growing number of people living inside Russia's current borders see him as everything his critics accuse him of, but not as some kind of moral flaw but a flaw of ineptitude, weakness, and indecisiveness.  They wish he was more like...Stalin! 

“If we are to have another contest in the near future of our national existence, I predict that the dividing line will not be Mason and Dixon's but between patriotism and intelligence on the one side, and superstition, ambition and ignorance on the other.” 

-Ulysses S. Grant

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53 minutes ago, Darkpriest said:

So in other words, we wasted a year, just because we did not want Trump to possibly be right... 

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/lab-leak-theory-science-scientists-rcna1191

How did that old (pre-digital) saying go, a broken clock is right twice a day? I don't think Trump couldn't be right about anything, even if tried.

Tl;dr; the article: "1) We still don't know anything 2) Who can be blamed for what and how can we exploit it politically"

“He who joyfully marches to music in rank and file has already earned my contempt. He has been given a large brain by mistake, since for him the spinal cord would surely suffice.” - Albert Einstein

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Meh, the article is pretty much the epitome of false equivalency. The three theories of SARS CoV2 origin simply aren't equivalent, even just listing them as if they are is deeply misleading.

We've had detected coronavirus crossover events 7 (!) times in the last 20 years (including SARS1/2 and MERS), and there are almost certainly other non detected ones too; so that's the default option because it's happened provably more than once every 3 years. That's especially so when there is no evidence- let alone compelling evidence- for anything else, beyond 3 people being sick, which was intelligence laundered through someone who has been used to legitimise false intelligence before, multiple times.

(Most amusingly the so called 'smoking gun' evidence of SARS CoV2 being engineered is now admitted to be a flash in the pan instead, said by someone going off half c0cked. And even that is being a bit generous with the fusilliary metaphors)

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3 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

So in other words, we wasted a year, just because we did not want Trump to possibly be right... 

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/lab-leak-theory-science-scientists-rcna1191

am wondering if you read the linked. you did notice how dismissive the virologists were o' the lab created theory, yes?  as we has observed previous, the possibility some sample escaped from the lab would not shock us in the least. the thing is you had your shorts in a twist over the engineered virus conspiracy theory and any article which even mentions such fuels your imagination regardless o' whether the experts cited in those articles appear to be critical o' lab creation theory.

and again, am not saying covid-19 as a lab creation is impossible. am not complete writing such a possibility off as an issue not worthy o' consideration. however, thus far there is almost no legit scientific support for such a theory and what evidence does exist is speculative and correlative in the most transparent way possible. 

you wanna find more articles, such as the one linked, which support Gromnir's criticism o' dp's premature lab creation nightmares? please, continue. nevertheless, am suggesting you wait for some genuine support, 'cause every time you post on this subject you is giving anybody who bothers to actual read the article a chance to kick you in the teeth once more with your premature embrace o' the lab created origin conspiracy theory. why do you wanna set your self up for that kinda ridicule?

HA! Good Fun!

ps we will note that there is a confirmation bias issue with the wet market explanations for the origins o' covid-19. the common worst case pandemic scenario for the past couple decades has included some kinda avian flu making the leap from birds to humans. wet markets were considered a likely origin for the anticipated initial animal-to-human leap recognizing the ideal unfortunate conditions in such markets. so, when there were an outbreak in wuhan, it were a comfortable working theory for the science guys to believe a wet market in wuhan were the likely origin. even when it were clear covid-19 were not a strain o' influenza and were unlikely avian origin, the wet market theory were a kinda intellectual lodestone 'cause that is what the big brains had been warning 'bout for decades. similar kinda correlation mistake as dp is making even if a bit more informed.

 

Edited by Gromnir

"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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5 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

So in other words, we wasted a year, just because we did not want Trump to possibly be right... 

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/lab-leak-theory-science-scientists-rcna1191

But Dark even if Trump was right about this and the virus came from a lab he still mishandled the entire pandemic in the USA. He really did and it was the inconsistency with addressing the pandemic that contributed to the  death of hundreds of thousands of US citizens. Its not all his fault of course, mask denialists and the " deep state " crowd played their part and Trump shouldnt get blamed for that 

Lets leave the political rhetoric to one side and ask ourselves a  question " what difference does the origin of the virus make to how any country handles the spread of the virus within their borders " .....can you think of  one reason that this would make a difference? In other words once the virus gets to your country the only thing that matters, until you get vaccines, is following the science to the best of your ability to try to contain the spread

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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https://www.business-standard.com/article/current-affairs/us-sc-upholds-obamacare-allowing-millions-to-keep-health-insurance-cover-121061800029_1.html

Guys here is really unexpected but good news  , the US SC has uphold Obamacare for the third time

This is good news for those of us worried that a more conservative SC would overturn things like gay marriage or the right for women to choose to have an abortion. I understand these are all separate issues but their was this fear that the Trump SC appointees would push a certain agenda 

@Gromnir You can unleash your prodigious legal knowledge on this matter but keep it simple so those of us who arent lawyers can understand how significant this is. I am interested in your opinion on this Obamacare ruling and arent you happy?

 

Edited by BruceVC

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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Did he though? Don't you thing the resentment of local authorities and media towards him played the factor? Remember USNS Comfort situation? How everyone was bashing president that it's impossible it will arrive in NY to help out? Do you think that local authorities not believing it will arrive contributed to the fact it was not used as best as it could be? Remember how Trump was universally mocked about vaccine being finished by the end of the year? In retrospect many things Trump did and said turned to be spot on. 

And what about the fact that each state and county have much independence from federal government? I don't think we can apply the same measures as in other countries to USA where federal government doesn't have the same level of authority. 

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6 hours ago, Darkpriest said:

So in other words, we wasted a year, just because we did not want Trump to possibly be right... 

https://www.nbcnews.com/science/science-news/lab-leak-theory-science-scientists-rcna1191

They don't call him the Great Divider for nothing. His disagreeableness and falsehoods had a very strong polarizing effect. It's a similar effect to what you see with the Climate Change discussion, where the politicizing of the science has made it very difficult to stay neutral and unbiased.

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"It has just been discovered that research causes cancer in rats."

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7 minutes ago, BruceVC said:

keep it simple so those of us who arent lawyers can understand how significant this is. 

 

simple?

ok, the decision isn't all that significant and it ain't genuine surprising.

what we do know is that alito, thomas and acb is not fans o' the roberts decision which saved obamacare and would happily vote against the roberts position if a case came before them which would give 'em an opportunity to do so. gorsuch? he would probable kneecap obamacare if given the chance. joining with alito's angry dissent, which had little in common with established standing jurisprudence, makes it at least a matter o' concern for obamacare fans that gorsuch were willing to act as a cheerleader for the alito's borderline unhinged dissent.

kavanaugh? no idea. kavanaugh is too unpredictable for our taste. he is consistent, save for when a case o' pivotal importance is before the Court. worst kinda Justice from our pov.

the media and the dems fighting the acb appointment presented to bruce and others that the case before the court were a referendum o' sorts on the constitutionality o' obamacare and that were never truth. obamacare is not safer today from acb, alito and the Conservative Court majority than it were yesterday, but this particular case were never the danger it were being spun. 

HA! Good Fun!

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"If there be time to expose through discussion the falsehood and fallacies, to avert the evil by the processes of education, the remedy to be applied is more speech, not enforced silence."Justice Louis Brandeis, Concurring, Whitney v. California, 274 U.S. 357 (1927)

"Im indifferent to almost any murder as long as it doesn't affect me or mine."--Gfted1 (September 30, 2019)

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1 hour ago, Skarpen said:

Did he though? Don't you thing the resentment of local authorities and media towards him played the factor? Remember USNS Comfort situation? How everyone was bashing president that it's impossible it will arrive in NY to help out? Do you think that local authorities not believing it will arrive contributed to the fact it was not used as best as it could be? Remember how Trump was universally mocked about vaccine being finished by the end of the year? In retrospect many things Trump did and said turned to be spot on. 

And what about the fact that each state and county have much independence from federal government? I don't think we can apply the same measures as in other countries to USA where federal government doesn't have the same level of authority. 

You make some good points and I agree with some of them

For example I personally hold the governors of each state ultimately responsible for the spread of the virus in each state because the Federal government, or the president, doesnt get to decide certain regulations or laws or virus prevention measures within the state. And if you look at the reality of the US second wave their was an initial pattern that started in states like Georgia, Florida, Texas, Alabama and New Mexico where the governors didnt mandate mask wearing or attempt to enforce any real regulations. These governors opened all bars, gyms and restaurants and used a deeply flawed approach  that said " we are leaving it up to people to do the right thing " ......leaving it up to mask denialists and deep state acolytes meant many people believed the virus and pandemic wasn't real and that meant they followed no virus prevention measures and that had disastrous  consequences for the US 

I dont hold Trump responsible for that, I hold the governors and individual people who are responsible for their own thoughts and actions 

But the president of any country sets  a tone and does have degrees of influence around this words and how people reflect on them. For example its a fact that many of the Trump base use to say openly " we dont believe anything the  media says , even Fox, unless Trump says its true "

Trumps views on mask wearing became a  political decision for some of his base when it should have always been seen as medical necessity to help prevent the spread of the virus. In other words some US citizens refused to wear masks because they believed it was a liberal\Democratic plot to push a certain agenda 

So the words and views of Trump created different degrees of confusion and misinformation ....that is where he is responsible but I still hold the governors more responsible 

But yes the Warp Speed vaccine program was a success and that was creation of the Trump presidency so he  should get recognition for that .....but its not enough to negate the damage that was done by the inconsistent virus policy like not being clear on wearing masks 

 

 

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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2 hours ago, Gromnir said:

simple?

ok, the decision isn't all that significant and it ain't genuine surprising.

what we do know is that alito, thomas and acb is not fans o' the roberts decision which saved obamacare and would happily vote against the roberts position if a case came before them which would give 'em an opportunity to do so. gorsuch? he would probable kneecap obamacare if given the chance. joining with alito's angry dissent, which had little in common with established standing jurisprudence, makes it at least a matter o' concern for obamacare fans that gorsuch were willing to act as a cheerleader for the alito's borderline unhinged dissent.

kavanaugh? no idea. kavanaugh is too unpredictable for our taste. he is consistent, save for when a case o' pivotal importance is before the Court. worst kinda Justice from our pov.

the media and the dems fighting the acb appointment presented to bruce and others that the case before the court were a referendum o' sorts on the constitutionality o' obamacare and that were never truth. obamacare is not safer today from acb, alito and the Conservative Court majority than it were yesterday, but this particular case were never the danger it were being spun. 

HA! Good Fun!

https://www.nytimes.com/2021/06/09/opinion/abortion-mississippi-supreme-court.html

Gromnir how does the relationship or legal precedent work in the US where Federal government allows things like abortion  or gay marriage but individual states pass their own laws banning it ? I understand states  can pass their own laws on most developments but what is the point of a Federal law like abortion being  Federal but states ban it , what recourse do you have from a Federal level to overturn this type of state intervention if any?

Or am I misunderstanding Federal laws and state laws synergy ?

"Abashed the devil stood and felt how awful goodness is and saw Virtue in her shape how lovely: and pined his loss”

John Milton 

"We don't stop playing because we grow old; we grow old because we stop playing.” -  George Bernard Shaw

"What counts in life is not the mere fact that we have lived. It is what difference we have made to the lives of others that will determine the significance of the life we lead" - Nelson Mandela

 

 

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image.thumb.jpeg.3a1ff25c14f9b61e916f4b60603665c9.jpeg

well if I am not already on some terrorist watchlist I probably will be soon. After all, can’t have people thinking wrong can we?

"The man of virtuous soul commands not, nor obeys. Power, like a desolating pestilence, pollutes whate'er it touches; and obedience, bane of all genius, virtue, freedom, truth, makes slaves of men, and of the human frame a mechanized automaton."

P.B. Shelley

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